Lost One Night Shoot--Red One Won't Boot from Red Brick--PLEASE HELP!

[Christopher Gallego]

Hey guys, we were supposed to get some night exteriors last night and my Red One MX decided not to boot from the Red brick connected via the Red quickplate. The company where we rented our accessories was kind enough to open up after hours and try new batteries, new quickplates, and nothing worked. The camera boots fine from AC power and will stay on for hours. No problem there. But as soon as we try to run it off battery power, it's dead. Has any one had this problem?? You would think if it were a problem with the connector in the camera, it wouldn't boot from either power source, right? Not sure what to do next. Red isn't open until Monday, and we're a small indie shoot so losing this entire weekend is kind of disastrous for us. Any suggestions?

 

[Christopher Mills]

Walmart suggestion.
Power supply for automotive applications that has AC outputs (inverter) and built in battery..
or... straight DC to AC inverters and some car batteries....
Or.. rent generator from Home Depot.

 

[Christopher Gallego]

Thanks Christopher! The generator idea crossed my mind, but being the least handy guy in the world, I wondered if running the camera from a generator would be safe. It should be though, right? Any reason for not putting a generator inside our car while it's running?

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Thanks Christopher! The generator idea crossed my mind, but being the least handy guy in the world, I wondered if running the camera from a generator would be safe. It should be though, right? Any reason for not putting a generator inside our car while it's running?

Gas generator? I wouldn't do that.

The problem you described with the battery power is often either bad contact points or perhaps a bad cable. However, the fact that you tried a few different ones leads me to think that there is some other issue going on. Does the connector on the camera look fine? Any noticeable changes? In theory, if it's bad, the AC probably wouldn't work either.

 

[Joseph Bailey]

Never put a gasoline generator in a closed space except for suicide.
Go get the smallest Honda generator you can find from an RV dealer. You won't regret it. They are superb and extremely quiet and resell very easily.

 

[Christopher Gallego]

Steve, I've taken a good look at the connector inside the camera and from what I can tell, visually it looks fine. I have the R1 running right now on the AC cable. I was hoping last night was a fluke, but I'm trying again now with the battery plate and same result. Yeah my first thought was that it was the cable in the plate, but the rental house pretty much brought out every single plate they had and same result. I really don't know what to do at this point. I've sent in a report to Red, but I don't know if I should expect to hear back from anyone over the weekend. Joseph, thanks for the tip, I'm going to see where the nearest RV dealer is and look into that Honda generator. Wouldn't you know it, my first shoot with my Red and I have a bizarre technical issue. I mean if the connector in the camera was faulty, wouldn't it fail with the AC cable just like it does with the one from the Red brick battery plate?

 

[Noel R.]

If a different battery is not working, and your AC power adapter is working, I'd say there is a break somewhere in the line with your battery power cables. When you switched everything with your battery setup was there anything that remained the same? I would check the pin out on the cable with a volt meter and check it there. If you don't know the pinout check it on the end of the AC adapter and see which pins you get your DC power from, you can use that as a reference. I'm guessing the power is similar to the setup of an Epic/scarlet, where it uses the AC adapter to convert to DC rather than using an internal power adapter in the RED one.

 

[Robert Hart]

Operating generator inside car? - please "NO".


Reasons.


Exhaust flame from generator mufflers may set fire to something nearby from direct heat or from sparks flying out.

In S.E. Asia, where human life and occupational health are not necessarily a primary concern, some manufacturers of small industrial engines with fitted fuel tanks, no longer attach a fuel stop valve on the tank itself but at the motor on the far end of the fuel line. The rubber lines or joiners may perish after about twelve months. If the fuel line leaks, you may not be able to shut the fuel off and fuel will flood the interior of your car. At least you will have some light to see by while it burns but you may not be driving home that night. If you have the luck and it does not ignite, vapours will at best make your car unsafe to drive and at worst burn it down around you later on the freeway and you may make the TV News.

Most small industrial gasolene engines use a sidedraught or updraught carburettor. Updraft carburettors void fuel out through the air inlet over the engine area when they flood. Sidedraft carburettors also void fuel over the engine area when they flood. Most automotive applications of sidedraft carburettors mount the carburettor at an upwards angle so fuel flooding voids into the engine and will be expelled through the exhaust if the engine is running. You will also see this arrangement on motorycles. Updraught carburettors cannot be made safe by any arrangement of their fixture except by a sealed air inlet tube with its opening higher than the highest level of the fuel source.

Some small american-built Briggs engines have a unique carburettor/fuel tank combination which is about as safe as it gets with small industrial motors short of a hole in the tank itself. If anything associated with fuel becomes unhung due to loose bolts, the engine will generally stop before a dangerous condition develops.

Many small industrial engines after periods of storage, when transported, may end up with grit from a freshly agititated dirty fuel tank running into the float valve needle seat and propping the needle valve open, causing a fuel flood.

Excessive shaking or vibration of an unstabilised small industrial engine may agitate the float valve needle and cause the carburtettor to flood. Small generators should be firmly planted and not free to rock and sway on uneven surfaces.

A car body may propagate more noise through the broader area of body panels from a generator operating inside it than a generator operating on the open ground on the opposite side. If noise is going to be an issue, a long power cable, a hole in the ground for the generator to hide in and the car parked in front of it may help.

Famously, or rather infamously, a heritage WW2 aircraft, was found preserved in Arctic ice several decades after having been abandoned during the war. It was the subject of an incredible amount of time and effort to raise it from the ice and make it airworthy for a recovery flight. With success within sight, whilst high speed taxi tests were done across an ice runway, a generator left running inside the aircraft got shaken, caught fire and the aircraft was lost.

There, that's a bit of information overkill for you.

 

[Christopher Gallego]

If a different battery is not working, and your AC power adapter is working, I'd say there is a break somewhere in the line with your battery power cables. When you switched everything with your battery setup was there anything that remained the same? I would check the pin out on the cable with a volt meter and check it there. If you don't know the pinout check it on the end of the AC adapter and see which pins you get your DC power from, you can use that as a reference. I'm guessing the power is similar to the setup of an Epic/scarlet, where it uses the AC adapter to convert to DC rather than using an internal power adapter in the RED one.

Noel, when we switched everything with the battery setup, we first tried the same battery on a different quickplate thinking it was the cable running from the quickplate to the back of the R1. No love. Then we just changed the red brick. Same. Finally we tried multiple quickplates all with their own cables, and same result.

 

[Noel R.]

Noel, when we switched everything with the battery setup, we first tried the same battery on a different quickplate thinking it was the cable running from the quickplate to the back of the R1. No love. Then we just changed the red brick. Same. Finally we tried multiple quickplates all with their own cables, and same result.

Did you check the pinout, that's the simplest most effective way of checking that you have power. If it's there, then that means something is wrong with the camera.

 

[Christopher Gallego]

Operating generator inside car? - please "NO".


Reasons.


Exhaust flame from generator mufflers may set fire to something nearby from direct heat or from sparks flying out.

In S.E. Asia, where human life and occupational health are not necessarily a primary concern, some manufacturers of small industrial engines with fitted fuel tanks, no longer attach a fuel stop valve on the tank itself but at the motor on the far end of the fuel line. The rubber lines or joiners may perish after about twelve months. If the fuel line leaks, you may not be able to shut the fuel off and fuel will flood the interior of your car. At least you will have some light to see by while it burns but you may not be driving home that night. If you have the luck and it does not ignite, vapours will at best make your car unsafe to drive and at worst burn it down around you later on the freeway and you may make the TV News.

Most small industrial gasolene engines use a side draught or updraft carburettor. Updraft carburettors void fuel out through the air inlet over the engine area when they flood. Sidedraft carburettors also void fuel over the engine area when they flood. Most automotive applications of sidedraft carburettors mount the carburettor at an upwards angle so fuel flooding voids into the engine and will be expelled through the exhaust if the engine is running. You will also see this arrangement on motorycles.

Some small american-built Briggs engines have a unique carburettor/fuel tank combination which is about as safe as it gets with small industrial motors. If anything associated with fuel becomes unhung due to loose bolts, the engine will generally stop before a dangerous condition develops.

Many small industrial engines after periods of storage, when transported, may end up with grit from a freshly agititated dirty fuel tank running into the float valve needle seat and propping the needle valve open, causing a fuel flood.

A car body may propagate more noise through the broader area of body panels from a generator operating inside it than a generator operating on the open ground on the opposite side. If noise is going to be an issue, a long power cable, a hole in the ground for the generator to hide in and the car parked in front if may help.

Famously, or rather infamously, a heritage WW2 aircraft, was found preserved in Arctic ice several decades after having been abandoned during the war. It was the subject of an incredible amount of time and effort to raise it from the ice and make it airworthy for a recovery flight. With success within sight, whilst high speed taxi tests were done across an ice runway, a generator left running inside the aircraft got shaken, caught fire and the aircraft was lost.

Robert, thanks so much for the info. Someone on the crew last night suggested we just go pick up a generator, throw it in the back seat of a car and run the camera from there. Again I'm really not great with matters pertaining to Home Depot, but it just didn't seem like the safest idea. I appreciate you letting me know this. Lol, news at 11...filmmaker sets the indie world ablaze. Not how I want to make my mark!

 

[Christopher Gallego]

Did you check the pinout, that's the simplest most effective way of checking that you have power. If it's there, then that means something is wrong with the camera.

Not yet, my friend has a volt meter and I'm trying to get him to bring it by this afternoon.

 

[Robert Hart]

Simple analog continuity meter/battery tester, the wet human tongueprobe. Not recommended for high voltage applications as the outcome is usually fatal.

 

[Jeff Whitehurst]

Iʻm trying to understand why in the world your crew would suggest to use a generator in a vehicle? A generator is a small engine with a built in power inverter, but your car has its own engine and you can get a 100 watt power inverter for like $20 at Walmart.
Canʻt you just use an inverter plugged into the car to power your AC adaptor, get your shoot behind you and then troubleshoot your battery issue later?

 

[Christopher Gallego]

Iʻm trying to understand why in the world your crew would suggest to use a generator in a vehicle? A generator is a small engine with a built in power inverter, but your car has its own engine and you can get a 100 watt power inverter for like $20 at Walmart.
Canʻt you just use an inverter plugged into the car to power your AC adaptor, get your shoot behind you and then troubleshoot your battery issue later?

Jeff, don't worry they'll be flogged soon Do you mean something like this--picked it up on way home. I could power the Red from here, yeah?

 

[Christopher Gallego]

On a side note, I've had the camera running for an hour now on AC power just to make sure, and it's been fine. I started to format a 128 gb SSD card, and that things been going for at least 30 minutes. Anybody know how long the 128gb SSD's usually take to fully format?

 

[Björn Benckert]

Jeff, don't worry they'll be flogged soon Do you mean something like this--picked it up on way home. I could power the Red from here, yeah?

Yes try something like that with a 12v cigarette power plug for input. Do not go and by a gas generator for a weekend work, your car will do the job just fine.

Plug the inverter into the 12v cigarette output of your car and an extention cord from the inverter to your AC camera supply to get a nice distance from the car. And, yes do keep the car engine running or you might be stuck out there...

The car providing power from it's generator and an inverter costing about 100USD should easily be enough to run your camera. But do test it first.

And those inverters are nice to have for any shoot, recharging laptops, keeping DIT stations up etc. So keep it among your gear and you will find that it will come handy many times over.

Good luck with the shoot.

Edit : just saw Jeff's post. same thing.

 

[jimhare]

Also, maybe reinstall the firmware on the R1 and see if your battery comes back to life. Might just be a glitch.

 

[Christopher Gallego]

Yes try something like that with a 12v cigarette power plug for input. Do not go and by a gas generator for a weekend work, your car will do the job just fine.

Plug the inverter into the 12v cigarette output of your car and an extention cord from the inverter to your AC camera supply to get a nice distance from the car. And, yes do keep the car engine running or you might be stuck out there...

The car providing power from it's generator and an inverter costing about 100USD should easily be enough to run your camera. But do test it first.

And those inverters are nice to have for any shoot, recharging laptops, keeping DIT stations up etc. So keep it among your gear and you will find that it will come handy many times over.

Good luck with the shoot.

Edit : just saw Jeff's post. same thing.

Thanks Björn, I appreciate the info. This should get us through the night exteriors this weekend at least. First thing Monday morning I'll bring the R1 to Red in Hollywood. The irony of all this is I think the 90 battle tested warranty JUST ran out too, lol. #can'tcatchabreak

 

[Jeff Whitehurst]

Jeff, don't worry they'll be flogged soon Do you mean something like this--picked it up on way home. I could power the Red from here, yeah?

Woops, didnʻt mean to get anyone in hot water! Just wondering if Iʻm missing something. I have occasionally run my Scarlet from my truck via the RED AC adaptor using this $20 inverter: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-PI100AB-Inverter/dp/B000WSIR14

I think an inverter around ~200 watts might have been best for my camera, but that 100 watt inverter ran it just fine. Not sure about your R1 AC adaptorʻs specs, but the Scarlet AC adapter has these specs: Input: 100-240v~50-60Hz 2.0A, Output: 15V 10.0A 150W Max

One thing to mention is that AC inverters over a certain size need to be hooked up directly to a battery via alligator clips, but if you use a smaller one, it can plug directly into a cigarette lighter outlet. I think the one you bought might be a bit oversized, so if you want to just plug it in to the cigareete plug you can probably just go for a smaller inverter.

Hope it helps, Jeff