Color grading workflow

[Jeremy Wiles]

I was just wondering the approach to color grading others take for Red footage. I would think many of you edit in Premier and then color grade in AE using Color Finesse II. If you're using a different approach, I'd love to hear it.

I love all the features in REDCine X that you just can't get inside of Premier. Is there a way to color grade the footage in REDCine X, then export the data so that it embeds into the original metadata for the file, without having to export quicktime files? That way when you bring the files into premier they are already color graded and you're not limited by Premier's color grading tools, nor would you have to take your footage through AE.

Thanks,

Jeremy

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

Hi Jeremy.

Smart people hire colorists who have years of experience that goes beyond the strength of any platform.

Most people can do one light color corrections in REDCONE-X or others export to COLOR but it takes a seasoned colorist to "tell stories" with the secondaries and shapes and on and on.

That said, Im sure tons of people on here will give you DIY advice. Im going to advocate hiring a colorist

 

[Jeremy Wiles]

Hi Jeremy.

Smart people hire colorists who have years of experience that goes beyond the strength of any platform.

Most people can do one light color corrections in REDCONE-X or others export to COLOR but it takes a seasoned colorist to "tell stories" with the secondaries and shapes and on and on.

That said, Im sure tons of people on here will give you DIY advice. Im going to advocate hiring a colorist

Not every project affords the option to hire a colorist, so it's not always the smart thing to do. It may be the preferred thing, but not always the practical thing.

What is the workflow for color grading Red footage within the Adobe platform?

 

[Grant Yoshida]

Is there a way to color grade the footage in REDCine X, then export the data so that it embeds into the original metadata for the file, without having to export quicktime files?

Yes, you can grade the footage in REDCINE-X, then right-click on the clip in the bin and select "Save to RMD". Then when you load the R3D in Premiere CS5 it will use the grade from REDCINE-X (using the RMD file).

 

[Jeremy Wiles]

Yes, you can grade the footage in REDCINE-X, then right-click on the clip in the bin and select "Save to RMD". Then when you load the R3D in Premiere CS5 it will use the grade from REDCINE-X (using the RMD file).

That's great! Will this also work in CS4? Thanks Grant.

 

[Uli Plank]

No. You'll need CS5.

 

[shashbugu]

Redcine-X should definitely be your first stop. Premiere pro CS5 does have straight forward color correction tools and scopes that are actually realtime using a cuda graphics card. You could also get Red-giant colorista II or magic bullet looks. Color correction in AE is definitely more intuitive and offers more creative ways to grade. but its as slow as working with a still image. None of these of course can replace a dedicated color correction suite.

 

[Jim Hoffman]

1 light in Redcine. Output prores. Edit if FCP. Reconnect R3Ds via log and transfer. Send to Color. Back to FCP.

Poof.

Still trying to nail down an Adobe workflow. I'm hoping I can find something I like as much as the above. Apple is far from perfect but when one needs to do it all in one box it is nice. that being said the power of CS5 is amazing and I'm looking forward to discovering a better grading workflow.

 

[shashbugu]

1 light in Redcine. Output prores. Edit if FCP. Reconnect R3Ds via log and transfer. Send to Color. Back to FCP.

Poof.

Cool!!. Your workflows sounds pretty straight forward. I do love the Adobe speed as well.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Take a look at Premiere + DaVinci.

I just color corrected a feature using all of the other options (Premiere with plugins, Color, After Effects, Scratch, etc). Scratch kicks ass but is crazily expensive - I bit the bullet and paid to have 2 reels done on it after Color just drove me nuts with its problems. After Effects works nicely but heaven help you if you decide to change the edit. RedCineX is nice but seriously has no secondary controls so is a non-starter. Storm also looks promising but is not there yet.

DaVinci just kicks ass. My 2c

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[shashbugu]

Honestly speaking, if you primarily work with Red footage and you want to stay in PPro CS5, you can actually color grade a whole feature right in there. There quiet a few shortcomings and gotchas to working this way though. no tracking, masking, mattes. The whole color workflow in pPro is in a non cinema language, the grading tools are there but they are named differently. levels, contrast sliders, hue/sat/offset wheels, lift/gamma/gain etc are all named something else. the tools don't respond well to a mouse and thats all you can use. So buying Davinci resolve is a great investment if you want to work with pre pro.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Take a look at Premiere + DaVinci.

I just color corrected a feature using all of the other options (Premiere with plugins, Color, After Effects, Scratch, etc). Scratch kicks ass but is crazily expensive - I bit the bullet and paid to have 2 reels done on it after Color just drove me nuts with its problems. After Effects works nicely but heaven help you if you decide to change the edit. RedCineX is nice but seriously has no secondary controls so is a non-starter. Storm also looks promising but is not there yet.

DaVinci just kicks ass. My 2c

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

But how do you export to Davinci? In my experince EDL ouput does not work at all when using subclips - do you actually edit without using subclips!?

 

[Andrew Gentle]

Yes, you can grade the footage in REDCINE-X, then right-click on the clip in the bin and select "Save to RMD". Then when you load the R3D in Premiere CS5 it will use the grade from REDCINE-X (using the RMD file).

This is the simplest workflow I've heard of. You can even set REDCINE-X to automatically save .RMD files as you grade. Then you can go back to Premiere and click 'Reload from RMD' in the RED settings of a clip in the bin and it will update it for you.

 

[Emyr R. E. Pugh]

But how do you export to Davinci? In my experince EDL ouput does not work at all when using subclips - do you actually edit without using subclips!?

I'm looking into using DaVinci with PP and a couple of people on this thread have mentioned this as a good combination, but I have the same question: how do you export a PP timeline into DaVinci?

 

[Aleksandar Colancevski]

Browsing clips in Storm and creating rough cut, then sending timeline to FCP with ProRes export, cuting in FCP and creating EDL for DaVinci. The beauty of all is that you are color correcting R3D in DaVinci.

 

[Peter Chamberlain]

DaVinci Resolve will conform the r3d source clips using the EDL, and use the RMD to auto populate the camera metadata fields. You can then adjust those same RED controls, as well as all the real time Resolve grading controls... and render, say ProRes, with source timecode selected so the original EDL can be used to re-conform in PP/FCP.
Peter

 

[Rob Ruffo]

DaVinci Resolve will conform the r3d source clips using the EDL, and use the RMD to auto populate the camera metadata fields. You can then adjust those same RED controls, as well as all the real time Resolve grading controls... and render, say ProRes, with source timecode selected so the original EDL can be used to re-conform in PP/FCP.
Peter

But teh EDL does not work if you use subclips - which you must when editing long form.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Premiere surely must be able to generate an EDL even if it uses subclips?

How do you get your edit into a Quantel, Smoke, Scratch, Baselight or DS system then?

This seems like a basic feature - but then I thought that audio sync with timecode (eg if you're recording dual-system with a Sound Devices recorder) was a basic feature and it turned out Premiere lacked that too...

This whole idea of going from Premiere -> Storm -> FCP or whatever just to get a decent output seems crazy.

I just use Avid and it works perfectly without any extra steps and with no gamma issues.

If you really can't get an EDL to DaVinci... I can guarantee you that you'd be much happier using an Avid / FCP plus DaVinci for a long form job than staying with Premiere but then being stuck with After Effects to color correct! After Effects is great... but has serious disadvantages (lack of realtime, lack of conform ability if your edit changes).

I will take a look though - surely it must be possible to make a nice clean EDL from Premiere.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Bruce Allen]

I will take a look though - surely it must be possible to make a nice clean EDL from Premiere.

...aaand it looks like I have Premiere installed on my work machine but can't access help because "Adobe Community Help" says "Connect to the Internet to access or download Help." Aaaaaahhhhh... not professional!

Dear Adobe

My workstation is disconnected from the internet because I'm working on, among other things, superbowl commercials for major studio movies.

So... please make your Premiere installer actually install help by default - like Avid. Please make Premiere sync audio with timecode - like Avid. Please make Premiere output bulletproof EDLs even if folks used subclips - like Avid. This might help you shed your prosumer image. BTW, I like Premiere and have used it since version 5 or so. We also use After Effects every day. Thank you.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com