Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Los Angeles Red Users group

Shane V8F said:
I saw a thread several days ago about Red owners in LA getting together to establish some sort of quality level structure for pricing out the Red for rental. I have not been able to find the thread again, but would like to talk with interested individuals. It would be great to have a list of owners in Los Angeles and other areas to be able to bounce work off of.

One of my companies deals with remote camera cranes. It used to be a great business, but because of the relative cheap price of the cranes, the market was flooded with them. We use to get an established rental rate for the gear, but so many people have multiple crane arms that they basically give them to the producers for less and less. It is very hard to compete with these individuals that have several arms.

This hurts the whole industry. I don't want to see this happen to the Red camera rentals. Because of the relative cheap price of the camera there is going to be several companies that have several cameras. They will be forced to rent them out for less than rate card just to keep them working all the time.

This is going to happen unless we can create some sort of agreement with Red owners to keep the price fixed at a certain rate. This doesn't mean you can't help out a shoot in need, but the deal needs to make sense.

We tried to do this with the cranes but people didn't listen. Now the rental market is run by a few large companies, and the rest get to pick up the leftovers.

I HOPE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN WITH THE RED!

You have been warned!

I would like to join other Red users in Los Angeles to try and keep the Red value as high as possible for as long as possible.

Maybe if we set up a referral system that would work like this it may keep the quality high:

1. Data base of owners in the area. and posted schedules
2. Base low limit price, with exceptions. Members of this referal site agree to not rent gear out for less then a certain price unless approved by X amount of users of the site.
3. A Referral commission will be paid to the other Red owner passing the job along.
4. A small fee to keep name on the referral site. This fee would be to pay for the website, and keep it updated.

Just a thought, but one that should be considered.

V8F

P.S. Does anyone know how many Red's are reserved for the Southern California area?
Click to expand...
V8F,

Your post about rental rates makes a lot of sense. This problem is always what happens when the market gets "saturated" with an item that becomes a commodity.

We experienced this with Beta SP in the early 90's in Chicago. First off there were not a ton of rental packages around in the late 80's, so my partner and I bought a nice package with the right bells to make nice looking Beta SP, not just run and gun ENG stuff, but special videography for high end clients. We were able to charge a fair rate, pay off our notes, pay for upkeep and additional items for the package. We always took it out ourselves and shot for our clients. It was not a general rental item. We did not want to be a "rental" company but a company providing DP/OP and gear together as a package.

Within a few years, but after we'd been paid for, more and more people bought gear and flooded the market. Fortunately for us, we were able to compete with lower rental rates becasue we were paid off. So all the whores out there could rent for cheaper and cheaper and we just kept up by lowering our rates accordingly.

I hate playing that game. I believe we have to teach the client what the difference between "price" and "value" are. Price is what they pay, value is what they get. Our job as professionals is give them high value at a fair price and that price should be in line with the value.

Too many look only at the bottom line and granted out here in LA there are plenty of resources from which to choose so with that said I'm willing to explore your ideas and see what can be done toward the goal of creating a community of owners or owner/operators who can raise the standard of quality and establish a fair workable rate structure for the new camera system.

Feel free to email me with your thoughts.

Cheers!
 
i hate to break this to you, and i have said this in one other area of this board, as a trained economist, turned producer, now a proud red owner, i do not want to rain on your parade, but some have suggested that we engage in a price fixing scheme. under current anti-trust laws (which are from the early 20th century and not well enforced at this time (read business friendly republicans)), this type of activity could get those individuals involved in the conversation put into a small 6 x 6 room with a toilet and a small stinky bed. i strongly suggest (again based on being forced to read volumes of case studies on the sherman act, the per-se doctorine, clayton act, robinson-patman act, blah blah blah [check http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Jan/1/241454.html if you want to read up] to refrain from this type of discussion and move on to talking about making our bodies and gear available to eachother when we have a shoot that requires multiple bodies.

having said all of that, i picked up my camera today and i am in love. but we are willing to allow very qualified individuals to rent it and or other red owners to sub-rent it, again, to qualified individuals whom are in need of a second package.
 
RED and Prices and Value

RED and Prices and Value

I have followed the discussion here about prices and value with regard to your rental and use rates for your new REDs. So far, I have stayed out of that conversation. Price-fixing in any way is, as has been mentioned repeatedly, not allowed. I have these "two cents" to offer on the subject, for what it's worth.

I started my own Hollywood career 41 years ago. I started as a DP. I loved film. I still do. At the time I came to Hollywood, film was the only moving picture medium available and there were only three Film Schools on the planet. During my early career, I had my own 16mm equipment, and I got a lot of work because of that. Sometime I made a lot of money, and sometimes I didn't. I don't think it had anything to do with my camera. Although my heart is still very fond of using a film camera, I became a producer circa 1980 and have been one almost exclusively since then. I have produced film and video projects, witnessing and appreciating the differences, values and tech advances in both media over the years. Now there is digital, and I am very excited to use it.

There are "good" producers and there are "bad" producers. We all certainly know well that many of us want only to spend as little money as possible to make a show. I personally, pride myself in being a "good" producer. I define that as believing that everyone should receive a fair day's pay for an outstanding day's work. When I produce a picture, either union or non-union, I pay union minimum wages to everyone in the unit. I accept the union agreements to be the "fair" determination of a solid day's pay. I pay for people, not equipment. I shall always pay only whatever I must to get the equipment that I need.

I am very enthusiastic about producing my next project using the RED. I will want to get it for the lowest price. If you are a RED owner, and your RED only comes with you attached to it as DP. then you had better impress me as being the DP that I want. Only then, will I consider paying whatever your equipment rental demands may be. Otherwise, I'll find the lowest price for the RED. That's economics. That's called competition. It's the truth.

I like to work with friends. But, I do not hire friends who are not also oustanding in their craft. I am not at all concerned about how many RED cameras "flood" the market, and I recommend that you boys and girls not be concerned with that either, but only with how many outstanding, excellent, artistic, friendly, knowledgeable, outgoing, easy-to-work-with, terrific, creative, concerned-about-detail, perfectionst and remarkable DPs, editors, and other craftspersons "flood" the market. That's the market that I shall be shopping in.

In conclusion, I want to say to all of my new Red owner friends that, I wish you all make good earnings with your REDs, but I hope that you all bought them because they are a fantastic new camera that will change EVERYTHING, and because you WANT them.

kindest regards,
Rodney
 
Just New Friends

Just New Friends

adobeone said:
How is the Sat. the 29th

Any suggestion on what you guys would like to take away from the get together.
Click to expand...

All I really want to have after our meeting is a few new friends that are excitind to work together using the RED. I want to come away from breakfast just remembering the ideas that everyone has about digital.

Rodney
 
This rental discussion has been covered to the nth degree on the "what would you rent it for thread" Great information there.

But as Dave has pointed out this thread is now, really all about my needs....

I'm kidding, I would like do a little more than just have breakfast, but that needs more people than just me, Zack, Rodney, and Tuto.
 
I would very much like to get together soon. The Reds are out and now is the time to network with each other and bounce work back and forth.
Let me know when and where
 
It would be great to have a RED 1 on hand and a FCP system so we could look at the work flow. Anyone with a RED want to bring it?
 
I would love to come but i will be out of the state.

but, any LA based Professional whom is on a Working Set/Stage/Location with a Professional Crew, let me know with a PM and i'll come by the set and give you a taste of red31.
 
Hello my friends, things a shaping up nicely I have to push the date, but believe me you'll be glad. More on Thursday......

Help request:

Need a good hot meal truck, they have to make kick ass food. All you pros if you had a great movie set breakfast I want the guys number, PM me.

"Why do we need such a truck Adobeone?" you're saying to yourself. It's a surprise.
 
Red User Group Meeting

Red User Group Meeting

If you push the date then I can be there! Yippee. More importantly, if you push the date then we can offer our facilities to all. We have plenty of space, tech stuff, camera support and yes, if one our Red's are not on a job I will set one up. We also have FCP here for workflow review. BH

3760_1189816827.jpg

June workshop at our Orange County facility with Red and Apple.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top