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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Lock Epic in Scarlet Mode for rentals? Just a suggestion to the Red Team

Ryan,you know, you may be right. The market may sort itself out. The scarlet may be the 150/day rental with no support and the epic -x may be the pro version.
Naaw, somehow I doubt this, I think I'll buy some more glass instead.
 
Shane Kelly said:
Ryan,you know, you may be right. The market may sort itself out. The scarlet may be the 150/day rental with no support and the epic -x may be the pro version.
Naaw, somehow I doubt this, I think I'll buy some more glass instead.
Click to expand...

Scarlet will rent for more, I think people that have an issue with this are probably primarily Scarlet owners and don't want business taken away from them. Epic owners paid a premium, and as such should they have an advantage over a Scarlet user/renter? In my opinion, yes. Scarlet mode is almost just like switching out the brain, which in essence, Epic can already do all of what it's supposed to and what Scarlet can, so, it would be a firmware upload that each owner would have. it's doable, smart, and something to consider. I would love that option. But, a lot of Scarlet owners will be upset. I don't agree with their point of view, but I know why they feel like this, it's dollars. Become a better cinematographer and the tool wont matter. Scarlet mode for an Epic rental is an Epic idea.
 
This could work and I like the idea. Why not tender to both markets if you have an Epic.

My only concern if I was an Epic owner using Scarlet Mode...

1. Do I want my camera thats worth over $34k on a production that needs a $18k camera?
2. What if you get a call for your Epic but it's being rented out on Scarlet Mode/Price (You know thats always gonna happen)
3. Multiple versions once Dragon is released!?! One more firmware to worry about.

Most young (20-30 year old) shooters have been complaining that they've lost jobs because they don't have a kit. Since this technology is becoming affordable it's starting to become mandatory which may shape into a standard. The shop I work at pretty much only rents out lens/support/media for DSLR and HVX200 cameras. Canon put out more than enough models to fit every price point cause I've honestly lost count. DSLR replaced MiniDV/HDV_Scarlet replaces S16mm_EPIC replaced S35mm

There's allot tension going around since we don't know where it'll take us. With time we'll get the subtle clues and you can make your move.
 
Myself being someone who has a scarlet on order knows the limitations of the camera... and I know there will come a time that some shoots I will have to rent an epic... so yes sorry. This makes no sense
 
Exactly what I thought, rubs Scarlet owners the wrong way, Epic owners really have nothing to lose except for someone mishandling their gear like Cid said, but then again, I am always the tech on my Epic.
 
Lee Saxon said:
Why two if you're not doing rentals? That's a pretty big investment.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm unloading the RED One and will probably replace it with another EPIC-X. ;)

All in how you use them and what you use them for. I make far more money by using the cameras to create stuff than I do by renting them out for some day rate. Especially with all the bottom-feeders out there willing to whore themselves out with a barely-usable RED One kit for what amounts to peanuts.

Not trying to insult anyone here, but I see a lot of people buying cameras with big dreams of shooting something (feature film or whatever), and they feel they need to rent the camera out in order to pay for it or whatever. The only thought that comes to mind is that they're doing it wrong. Leave it at that.

Cameras are tools. As far as many professional tools go, the EPIC is a bargain. I've got more $$ in my garage tool cabinet than I do in my EPIC-M kit. I've got more money in PC and Mac computer systems and hardware than all my cameras and that crap goes obsolete a lot faster. I never buy anything I don't feel I can ROI within a year or less. I've been pretty good with gauging that over the past couple years. My EPIC-M fetched its ROI before I got my hands on the X.

If I were trying to do that kind of ROI model on rentals... forgetaboutit. In my town, I'm lucky to have more than one legit rental customer in a month. 90% of the time when I rent, the equipment goes out to fellow redusers in a bind who need an extra camera body or few pieces of gear.
 
Regarding rental in general

Regarding rental in general

Things will change the fixed prices will start to float after demand. I think Epics prices will change buy the day. I know for my self that I rather see my camera in the field than on the shelf so if I do not have the camera in use at least a few days a week then I need to cut low on the price. I think the brain needs to be paid of in less than a few months, then we want to order the Dragon, and then some other stuff after that and so on. The time has passed when a Arri 435 could be the standard for 10 years, now the high end cameras are not top of line for more than a year or so. Where half of that time was suffering from backorder and beta versions. So right by the time the Epic is fully working then the beta dragons will be out... So my advice for survival is to look at extremely fast turnarounds, that has worked for us with all our other equipment so far. So in other words if I have to under cut the the scarlet rentals with our epic I will, off course I will first lure the client with the nice looks of th bigger sensor and high speed options but i they say they will shot 25p and do not care about the sensor look than I would probably cut price in half I do not have another booking.
 
As someone who only rents, i find this quite an interesting idea.
The only question I have is, would the costs of temporary film insurance for an Epic in Scarlet mode be the same as for a Scarlet? Surely not?
 
If I was buying cameras to rent out I would be getting the canon c300 – that cam is going to be a cash cow because there is a ton of work out there for 1080p / fast post production.
 
J Davis said:
If I was buying cameras to rent out I would be getting the canon c300 – that cam is going to be a cash cow because there is a ton of work out there for 1080p / fast post production.
Click to expand...

The C300 is going to be ultimate rental whore camera in the coming year. Just watch.... R3D workflow is just as fast if done right, but people don't understand or realize this. Many are still afraid of R3D workflow and many still are loyal to the Canon label... If I were trying to be in the rental biz, I would be buying a couple C300's and a Scarlet or two. They will cycle far more rental days than EPIC will. Especially in smaller markets where production budgets are leaner and overall demand is lower.
 
I think it's a good idea that Red will never implement. Sadly.
It definitely comes into play on other cameras, and is usually an easy roadblock to put up as the additional features that producers claim to not need or pay for are hardware based.
I have the 120 fps option on my Alexa. If a producer says they don't need that I can rent the camera at a lower price, but will not include the 64 GB SxS cards that enable this functionality.
Also, with my F3s, if someone comes to me and says, oh, we won't use that 444 S-Log option, I can remove that license from the camera (It's on a special SxS card)
With my Epics, I cannot call their bluff, so to speak. I can only offer one of my Epics at a Scarlet price, subrent a Scarlet, or turn down the job.
Cheers,
Harry
 
I think its a good idea, but honestly agree that RED will never do it.. What rental companies usually do with backup bodies and "extras" that are not supposed to be used unless paid for, is rely on the AC to be honest and let them know if its used or not.. I'm sure this backfires all of the time, but its better than nothing?

Honestly I really think the EPIC is in such a different league, and I am now going to GO PLAY with it and my NEW CANON MOUNT!! YAY!
 
Toni Villar said:
As someone who only rents, i find this quite an interesting idea.
The only question I have is, would the costs of temporary film insurance for an Epic in Scarlet mode be the same as for a Scarlet? Surely not?
Click to expand...

No it would be for an EPIC. If the Epic in scarlet mode got dammaged, the insurance company is till repairing an Epic.
 
Glad someone agrees with me. I was bracing myself for a lot of flak after mentioning c300
 
;) dont get me started on the c300...... haha jk. I bet its good. just seems expensive for what it is. Till i use one i have little opinion.
 
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