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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

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Elijah Kelley

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So...I just received my new fluid head and carbon fiber sticks over the weekend. Judging by the weight I thought the head was being sent separately. Turns out, the head with the sticks weighed 19lbs.!! That's wow to me considering the head supports 55lbs.

Anyway, I've heard that this tripod (E-Image) is pricey for being a new name but last I heard RED was unheard of a few years ago and has changed the digital acquisition game. So I say to myself, "Self why not buy quality accessories that ascend, yes ascend, to the price point that RED has initiated in this field."

In short though I don't work for the company I'd like to say after working with several fluid heads and sticks including O'connor, and Satcher that I see and feel no difference that would convince me to purchase a tripod for 3x the price of this tripod. I'm immensely pleased with the fluid response and completely invisible drag of this head. Thanks to the guys that made this.
 
Just to be clear, the head capacity is 55 lbs. It will only counterbalance 22.

Looks like a nice little head though.

Cheers,

Nick
 
arrinick said:
Just to be clear, the head capacity is 55 lbs. It will only counterbalance 22.

Looks like a nice little head though.

Cheers,

Nick
Click to expand...

Rather crucial part of the spec!

Thanks Nick.
 
That 0771 looks awesome. Especially for the new Scarlets, (which will hopefully be lighter) the 22lb counterbalance wont be an issue.
 
arrinick said:
Just to be clear, the head capacity is 55 lbs. It will only counterbalance 22.
Click to expand...

I want to be able to tilt 60 degrees up or down and have the head stop dead with a 35lb load. Doesn't sound like this head will do that. Correct?

Red can get past 22lbs really fast.
 
Do you have tripod legs that use spreaders higher off the ground?

If not, do you sell the head separately from the legs?

The 22lb counterbalance seems a bit low... can a heavier counterbalance be installed? Is it an issue of simply finding thicker springs, or is the head's structure unable to handle a higher spring tension?
 
Brad Webb said:
Total noob question, but when does counterbalance come into play?
Click to expand...

When a heavy camera is tilted forward or backward on a tripod, gravity will pull on it and cause the camera to fall toward the ground. The operator must fight that gravity in order to keep the camera from falling. To help prevent operator fatigue, a counterbalance is used inside the head, springing tighter and tighter and rotating the camera away from the direction of gravity. This takes the burden of fighting gravity off the operator, so that the operator can focus on lightly moving the camera. It also allows the operator to let go of the camera without it quickly falling over.

Whatever weight is not supported by the counterbalance must be supported by the operator. If your RedOne kit weighs 23lbs, and the counterbalance only supports 22lbs, then the operator is going to be pulling against a pound of weight that will be trying to fall over the whole time. The more the operator fights that weight, the more they're going to scream obscenities, ruining the mood on the set. The more the camera tilts, the heavier the camera will seem, and that's when counterbalance becomes really important. The only time counterbalance is irrelevant is when the camera is locked, or is perfectly level and therefore not falling backwards or forwards. Those aren't the typical situation for a video camera in use. If you have a lot of weight not supported by a counterbalance, then letting go of the tripod will result in the camera quickly falling over and this might cause damage to the camera, especially because when the camera suddenly stops it will potentially throw the tripod off balance and the whole thing will tip over and crash onto the ground.

Counter balance needs to be dialed in to fit the weight and height of the camera (higher center of gravity requires more counteracting force). Usually that dial is implemented in either steps (the more steps the better) or as a continuously smooth adjustment. The smooth adjustment is most accurate, though many tripods seem to use the stepped adjustment (I'm guessing because it's easier to design and/or manufacture). Also, some tripods are designed to provide a counterbalance force in a sinusoidal way that matches the actual change in force that occurs when the camera is tilted on the head. Other tripods use a cheaper and less accurate counterbalance that uses some sort of rough approximation of a sinusoidal approach. Those not-quite-sinusoidal approaches may provide accurate counterbalance at some angles, but they will likely be inaccurately counterbalanced at other angles.

My personal opinion is that every head manufacturer would be using true sinusoidal counterbalancing if it weren't for some rather obvious (never should have been granted) patents that are monopolistic and have prevented the forward movement in the tripod industry. That being said, counterbalance precision isn't so immensely critical as long as you can get the counterbalance roughly close to accurate. Many people use stepped counterbalances and are perfectly happy with that style of counterbalance. If the stepped counterbalance doesn't have a setting that fits the camera weight, then adding some small item of weight to the camera can change the camera weight so that it fits the counter balance.

Depending on how precise the counter balance is, the operator might have to keep their hand on the tripod handle to keep the camera steady. If the operator lets go, the camera might drift upward or downward. The most precise counterbalances allow the operator to let go of the camera and will keep the camera positioned without any drift. In modern systems, accurate counterbalance requires that the mass of the camera is balanced perfectly. If the camera is too heavy on one side, it will have a tendency to fall on that side and spring up on the other side. Hence most modern tripods have sliding plates to allow the camera's weight to be moved around so that it can achieve near-perfect balance. When everything is set right, moving a heavy camera will feel somewhat similar to moving a lightweight camera.
 
Nice calculation...
 
Would the sinusoidal even been R&D'd if there were no patent protection? It's 20 years or so then it's a free for all. Garret Brown probably would've thought twice if there were no patent protection. As soon as his monopoly (rightly deserved) ended, the floodgates were wide opened.
 
Tim Naylor said:
Would the sinusoidal even been R&D'd if there were no patent protection? It's 20 years or so then it's a free for all. Garret Brown probably would've thought twice if there were no patent protection. As soon as his monopoly (rightly deserved) ended, the floodgates were wide opened.
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Sinusoidal counterbalance totally would have been invented regardless of patent protection. People invent things because they want to see the end result come into existence, Garret Brown included, often because they need or really want the invention. They invent things not with a 20 year monopoly on their mind, but with the thought that they'll have the end product in their hands ready for use. Besides that, there's a natural monopoly that comes from being first to market with something. That usually lasts a year or two, and is often profitable enough to cover R&D costs and then some.

I was planning on creating a fluid head myself. It took me all of half an hour to determine that a sinusoidal counterbalance was needed, and then it took me another couple hours to draw up a design to implement it. At that point in my research I knew very little about counterbalances except the physics behind it, and I had no idea what the major manufacturers were doing for their counterbalances. I was very surprised when I later discovered that many of the manufacturers weren't using a sinusoidal counterbalance at all. Then as I dug deeper I found out there was a sinusoidal patent held by O'Connor. As I continued poking around the patent office's mess of a website, I realized that there were so many trivial patents in existence that creating something new for the market would open a flood gate of random patent lawsuits. I don't have money to fight that sort of thing in court, so I gave up on the project.

When inventive people are scared to invent things because of patent litigation, then you have a patent system that does very little except hold back growth. And I personally think twenty years (one quarter of a typical human's lifespan) is a really long time to stall competition in the market. The modern economy moves much faster than the economy of the past, so the older patent time spans are unnecessary. I guess though, in a society that allows the song "Happy Birthday" to still be copyrighted, waiting only twenty years for patents to expire is not as bad as it could be.
 
Michael Hababou said:
If you have any question regarding the FHT0771 you can contact me, we are the exclusive distributors for these products and i have all the spec sheets and video at your disposal. You can also visit fluidheadtripod.com
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Lowkus said:
Whatever weight is not supported by the counterbalance must be supported by the operator. If your RedOne kit weighs 23lbs, and the counterbalance only supports 22lbs, then the operator is going to be pulling against a pound of weight that will be trying to fall over the whole time.
Click to expand...

Michael,
I suspect there is some confusion in this entire thread about your tripod specifications and that maybe it's being depicted less favourably than it actually is.

For the 7110H, what is the difference between the 'Payload' of 20kg and the 'Counterbalance Payload' of 8kg, at I presume at a tilt range of +90°/-60°.
And how do your specs equate to O'connors shown here....(don't care about figures, only fields)

O'Connor 1030HDS Specifications
Load capacity 1030HDS
@ 4 in. = 53 lbs. (24.0 kg)
@ 6 in. = 41 lbs. (18.6 kg)
@ 8 in. = 33 lbs. (15.0 kg)
Tilt = +60°/-60°

E-Image 7110H Specifications
Load capacity 7110H
Payload E-Image 7110H = 44 lbs. (20.0 kg)
Counterbalance payload = 17 lbs. (8.0 kg)
Tilt = +90°/-60°

I assume your 7110 head counter balance will support a 44lbs camera to a maximum of 17lbs net weight tilted off any 1 axis.

Cheers,
Dave
 
No problem Brad. The counterbalance concept has been bubbling around in my mind for a while and it's nice to purge the thoughts from my brain. :nerd:

Michael, I'm with David in that I'm a bit confused about the abilities of the head. You have used a RedOne with quite a few accessories attached and indicate that it works great on the head. The weight of that setup should have been above 22 lbs, outside the specs for the counterbalance. That makes me wonder...

1) How high is the center of gravity for that 22 lbs counterbalance limit? If it's higher than the RedOne's center of gravity, the head may have better counterbalance than the specification claims.
2) How heavy is the red+accessories you put on it? Perhaps I'm wrong about your setup exceeding 22 lbs?
3) Was the load successfully counterbalanced at more extreme angles, or did you keep the load mostly level with the ground while it was on the head? If so, maybe you didn't notice counterbalance issues since they show themselves mostly at steeper angles. Did you try counterbalancing that full Red kit at 80 degrees and was it successfully balanced at those steeper angles?

Elijah, I'd also be interested in your feedback on the counterbalance issue. How much gear are you putting on your tripod head, and does that weight get counterbalanced at the steeper tilt angles?
 
I just had a few more questions pop up in my head... and they're not counterbalance related! :w00t:

1) How much weight can the 0771 legs support on their own?
2) Does the 0771 head's bubble level have a back-light?
3) How much does a handle cost for the 0771 head?
4) Does the 0771 head ship with a handle or is it a separate purchase?
5) Where is the serial number written on the head?
6) Could you post a closeup of the manufacturer logo on the head?
 
Hi Lowkus

Great post, very instructive !

I did use this tripod set with te he red one, and I did not have any counterbalance issue. I rememeber we had the red one with all accessories (Red zoom 18-85, Mattebox with three filter stages, red rive, red evf, follow focus).
I did not use the head at steeper angles as I didn't need it at extreme angles or so.
General feeling was just really nice when properly counterbalanced with the ground.
I'll give it a try as soon as I can at steeper angles but I feel confident from what i already experienced during our last shooting.
 
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