Ned Wilson
Well-known member
Weird, I got all the batteries I need from B&H. What issues are you having with Software?
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Letus Helix vs. DJI Ronin - Pros and Cons???
- Thread starter Andy Roberts
- Start date
Weird, I got all the batteries I need from B&H. What issues are you having with Software?
Eric Santiago
Well-known member
Im sure this was mentioned but after playing with the Ronin for an afternoon Im baffled at the base height with these things.
As in the height of the lens is lower than Steadicam/Shoulder Rig.
Also, I cant see how one survives without an EasyRig.
Im a pretty strong dude and I was already struggling after a few minutes.
This was a stripped down Scarlet with a Sigma 18-35 along with a few misc items (RT single, Arrow Plus, DP-4, cables...).
As in the height of the lens is lower than Steadicam/Shoulder Rig.
Also, I cant see how one survives without an EasyRig.
Im a pretty strong dude and I was already struggling after a few minutes.
This was a stripped down Scarlet with a Sigma 18-35 along with a few misc items (RT single, Arrow Plus, DP-4, cables...).
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Mike P.
Well-known member
The Ronin weighs ~10lbs... DSMC rig is also ~10lbs (even with stills glass)... So you're holding ~20lbs at minimum, with arms outstretched... I don't care how strong you are, you can't do that for a day.
As for lens height, I think that's why you fly them (gimbals in general) in upside-down mode -- that puts the lens height right in your face, and arms tighter down your sides. But, yes, support is necessary. Actually, I'm very interested to see how people use those exoskeletons... Certainly you're not going to hold your arms above your head to keep the lens high, so again, they'll probably be flipping the rig upside-down.
As for lens height, I think that's why you fly them (gimbals in general) in upside-down mode -- that puts the lens height right in your face, and arms tighter down your sides. But, yes, support is necessary. Actually, I'm very interested to see how people use those exoskeletons... Certainly you're not going to hold your arms above your head to keep the lens high, so again, they'll probably be flipping the rig upside-down.
Note Suwanchote
Well-known member
agreed. You cannot. My brother is a world record lifter and he can't.
There's a cheap easy rig knockoff (not atlas) coming out that's mundane but cheap.
Eric Santiago
Well-known member
Mike P. in upside down mode, how does it behave compared to the regular mode?
We didn't get a chance to test that option.
With all the fiddling around with attaching misc on the bar, it would have been a pain to reset for upside mode.
Note S. any name on that knock off?
We didn't get a chance to test that option.
With all the fiddling around with attaching misc on the bar, it would have been a pain to reset for upside mode.
Note S. any name on that knock off?
Mike P.
Well-known member
I've only personally operated gimbals briefly, just fooling around/testing. That said, I just assumed if I were to operate, I'd mostly be using it in upside-down mode because it's impossible to hold the rig with your hands above your head for more than 120seconds without assistance (even an exo might be weird, as just having your arms above your head would probably cause them to fall asleep after a bit). When in upside-down mode it is obviously more top-heavy so you're still taxing your muscles, but the gimbal is just as smooth... OH, and I only used them in "follow" mode (or whatever they're called). I'm not sure if the controls on the remote are automatically reversed when using "dual operator" mode upside-down (I'd guess so).
Just a reminder; take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I'm positive that after shooting with one on set for a day you'd find so many different nuances/tips/tricks...
Just a reminder; take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I'm positive that after shooting with one on set for a day you'd find so many different nuances/tips/tricks...
Derek Doublin
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I have used both. I own a Helix and my friend owns a Ronin. I have used both on set. There are positive and negatives to both. Here are my observations:
SOFTWARE
This is where the Ronin shines. The Ronin software is light years better than what is available for the Letus Helix. The Ronin has a very simple to use app built for both iOS and Android. The Helix uses an app built for programmers. It is only on Android or desktop computers and installing it on a Mac requires some effort. Installing it on my Macbook Pro required inputting code into the Unix Terminal. My Mac's Bluetooth didn't play nice with the Helix and my unit is currently back at Letus getting checked out. Letus desperately needs to build a user friendly App for both iOS and Android. This is the Helix's biggest issue in my opinion. Communication from your computer/Android with the Helix is terrible. And Letus' instructions and documentation leave much to be desired. Ronin wins here, hands down.
SETUP
I don't think one is easier than the other. The DJI Ronin's software allows you to get up and running quickly. But we had major balancing issues with it on our shoot. It had a lot of internal freak outs loaded with a Red Epic and a Cooke lens. With the Letus it takes a lot of practice to get used to balancing it. It took me a while as a first time user to get my C300 balanced and I needed to contact Letus directly to figure some of it out. But once you have the balance figured out for your Letus, it's super easy to to get up and running from that point on. One big plus for the Letus is how clean the rig generally is. The Ronin with Lightbridge, monitor and batteries all hooked up is a bit of a mess. And the cables interfere a bit with the balancing of the rig sometimes. Both seemed to exhibit some odd behavior while trying to balance. But the easy to use software of the Ronin definitely makes it possible for a total novice to balance the rig. I think it's a toss up honestly.
QUALITY OF SHOTS
This is where I prefer the Letus the most. In my opinion, the Ronin produces a much more robotic motion than the Letus. Pans and tilts are smooth but I found the fluidity of motion while moving much more mechanical in nature. I feel like the Letus Helix stabilizes the shooting in such a way that the moving footage looks more akin to the Steadicam whereas the Ronin shots look like drone footage. I'm sure this can all be settled with proper tweaking of the Ronin and practice. Your results will vary with the operator's skills, but I feel that out of the box, the Letus footage looks much better. With the Letus I cannot detect that a motor is involved with the stabilization whereas with the Ronin I can sometimes see those servos kicking in. Again, this probably has more to do with operator use and settings.
OPERATION
The Letus is easier to hold and operate, hands down. The Ronin requires you to hold your arms out a bit more and having to rest the stabilizer on a stand after every take really stinks. When you're operating on a staircase or doing a long tracking shot where the stand must be a great distance from the operator in order to be clear of the shot, you're using twice as much energy to operate the unit because you must run all the way back to the Ronin stand to set it down. With the Letus you can just set it on the ground. And with the Letus 4th axis attachment, it can be mounted to a steadicam arm which is awesome. It's like having the best of both worlds then. The suitcase mode on the Letus is also a big plus. It is very handy for shooting low to the ground.
TRAVEL
The Letus is much more compact than the Ronin. The Ronin case is just MASSIVE. The Letus can fit in a small pelican or even a backpack.
RC CONTROLLER and SYNC
The Ronin comes with the controller ready to go. The Letus requires you to by a 3rd party controller and bind it yourself. And once again, here is where the Ronin kicks the Letus to the curb. Binding the Letus requires you to insert a binding pin and ground the controller port while you bind your RC controller. I don't want to be doing this kind of stuff on set. I had massive problems binding my Spektrum RC controllers to the Helix. I never could get it to bind. I was having to stick these two tiny pins into two microscopic ports over and over again, powering the unit off and on a lot. Along with my issues with the bluetooth I finally just sent my unit back to Letus. I think Letus needs to do some MAJOR work with the software and communication between the Letus and other devices. It is confusing and can be difficult at times. The Ronin is simple and streamlined. The controller works right out of the box.
PRICE & QUALITY
For what you get with the Ronin, the Ronin is a much better deal. DJI is a huge company now and they have their mass manufacturing down which allows them to keep a low price. Letus is still kind of a Mom-n-Pop shop and doing things on their own. That being said, the quality of the materials in the Letus seem much better to me than the Ronin. The handles are especially nice. The Ronin give you A LOT more for your money. They include the case and controller. These are things you have to buy separately with the Letus. I think the Letus is better in overall craftsmanship and materials used. It feels really nice, like a tank. The Ronin makes me feel like it will break easily and not surprisingly, it did. One guy tripped over it while on set and it broke. We had to get a replacement. The Helix feels much more robust.
POWER
The Letus wins here hands down. You can power the camera and accessories with the Letus battery which is big, powerful, and hangs off the back of the unit. The power runs internally and this keeps messy cables at a minimum. It's a great setup.
CUSTOMER SERVICE
With Letus, when you contact the company, you often end up either talking to the person that invented the thing or is a few steps removed from that person. With Ronin it is generally a customer service rep that is going through the motions. My dealings with both were ok. Both took some time. I bought my unit used from Letus and they still covered me. Letus is an awesome American company that truly cares about their customers. DJI is a big corporation and you can sense that when you call them. Sometimes Letus doesn't answer the phone because they're too busy or under staffed. DJI has phone service operators, some of which seem like they don't know anything about the unit they are servicing. This made trouble shooting the Ronin on set super frustrating. It took 2 hours. Then again, sometimes Letus just gives you voicemail. And talking to SOMEONE is generally better than nobody, especially when you're on set with an emergency.
OVERALL - WHICH IS BEST?
I like both. I wish the Ronin had the ability to be placed on the ground, was lighter and smaller. I wish the Letus had the iOS software and device communication of the Ronin. Letus customer service reps know their stuff but don't always answer the phone. Ronin reps always answer the phone but don't always know their stuff. I liked the footage I shot with the Letus much better, but then again, that is just MY personal footage. I own the Letus so I have used it more. I'm sure if I owned the Ronin I would be better with that. I feel like the Letus needs another year of software development. I feel like DJI needs to figure out how to lose that stand and make it a bit more robust.
These are just my observations. Hope they help.
SOFTWARE
This is where the Ronin shines. The Ronin software is light years better than what is available for the Letus Helix. The Ronin has a very simple to use app built for both iOS and Android. The Helix uses an app built for programmers. It is only on Android or desktop computers and installing it on a Mac requires some effort. Installing it on my Macbook Pro required inputting code into the Unix Terminal. My Mac's Bluetooth didn't play nice with the Helix and my unit is currently back at Letus getting checked out. Letus desperately needs to build a user friendly App for both iOS and Android. This is the Helix's biggest issue in my opinion. Communication from your computer/Android with the Helix is terrible. And Letus' instructions and documentation leave much to be desired. Ronin wins here, hands down.
SETUP
I don't think one is easier than the other. The DJI Ronin's software allows you to get up and running quickly. But we had major balancing issues with it on our shoot. It had a lot of internal freak outs loaded with a Red Epic and a Cooke lens. With the Letus it takes a lot of practice to get used to balancing it. It took me a while as a first time user to get my C300 balanced and I needed to contact Letus directly to figure some of it out. But once you have the balance figured out for your Letus, it's super easy to to get up and running from that point on. One big plus for the Letus is how clean the rig generally is. The Ronin with Lightbridge, monitor and batteries all hooked up is a bit of a mess. And the cables interfere a bit with the balancing of the rig sometimes. Both seemed to exhibit some odd behavior while trying to balance. But the easy to use software of the Ronin definitely makes it possible for a total novice to balance the rig. I think it's a toss up honestly.
QUALITY OF SHOTS
This is where I prefer the Letus the most. In my opinion, the Ronin produces a much more robotic motion than the Letus. Pans and tilts are smooth but I found the fluidity of motion while moving much more mechanical in nature. I feel like the Letus Helix stabilizes the shooting in such a way that the moving footage looks more akin to the Steadicam whereas the Ronin shots look like drone footage. I'm sure this can all be settled with proper tweaking of the Ronin and practice. Your results will vary with the operator's skills, but I feel that out of the box, the Letus footage looks much better. With the Letus I cannot detect that a motor is involved with the stabilization whereas with the Ronin I can sometimes see those servos kicking in. Again, this probably has more to do with operator use and settings.
OPERATION
The Letus is easier to hold and operate, hands down. The Ronin requires you to hold your arms out a bit more and having to rest the stabilizer on a stand after every take really stinks. When you're operating on a staircase or doing a long tracking shot where the stand must be a great distance from the operator in order to be clear of the shot, you're using twice as much energy to operate the unit because you must run all the way back to the Ronin stand to set it down. With the Letus you can just set it on the ground. And with the Letus 4th axis attachment, it can be mounted to a steadicam arm which is awesome. It's like having the best of both worlds then. The suitcase mode on the Letus is also a big plus. It is very handy for shooting low to the ground.
TRAVEL
The Letus is much more compact than the Ronin. The Ronin case is just MASSIVE. The Letus can fit in a small pelican or even a backpack.
RC CONTROLLER and SYNC
The Ronin comes with the controller ready to go. The Letus requires you to by a 3rd party controller and bind it yourself. And once again, here is where the Ronin kicks the Letus to the curb. Binding the Letus requires you to insert a binding pin and ground the controller port while you bind your RC controller. I don't want to be doing this kind of stuff on set. I had massive problems binding my Spektrum RC controllers to the Helix. I never could get it to bind. I was having to stick these two tiny pins into two microscopic ports over and over again, powering the unit off and on a lot. Along with my issues with the bluetooth I finally just sent my unit back to Letus. I think Letus needs to do some MAJOR work with the software and communication between the Letus and other devices. It is confusing and can be difficult at times. The Ronin is simple and streamlined. The controller works right out of the box.
PRICE & QUALITY
For what you get with the Ronin, the Ronin is a much better deal. DJI is a huge company now and they have their mass manufacturing down which allows them to keep a low price. Letus is still kind of a Mom-n-Pop shop and doing things on their own. That being said, the quality of the materials in the Letus seem much better to me than the Ronin. The handles are especially nice. The Ronin give you A LOT more for your money. They include the case and controller. These are things you have to buy separately with the Letus. I think the Letus is better in overall craftsmanship and materials used. It feels really nice, like a tank. The Ronin makes me feel like it will break easily and not surprisingly, it did. One guy tripped over it while on set and it broke. We had to get a replacement. The Helix feels much more robust.
POWER
The Letus wins here hands down. You can power the camera and accessories with the Letus battery which is big, powerful, and hangs off the back of the unit. The power runs internally and this keeps messy cables at a minimum. It's a great setup.
CUSTOMER SERVICE
With Letus, when you contact the company, you often end up either talking to the person that invented the thing or is a few steps removed from that person. With Ronin it is generally a customer service rep that is going through the motions. My dealings with both were ok. Both took some time. I bought my unit used from Letus and they still covered me. Letus is an awesome American company that truly cares about their customers. DJI is a big corporation and you can sense that when you call them. Sometimes Letus doesn't answer the phone because they're too busy or under staffed. DJI has phone service operators, some of which seem like they don't know anything about the unit they are servicing. This made trouble shooting the Ronin on set super frustrating. It took 2 hours. Then again, sometimes Letus just gives you voicemail. And talking to SOMEONE is generally better than nobody, especially when you're on set with an emergency.
OVERALL - WHICH IS BEST?
I like both. I wish the Ronin had the ability to be placed on the ground, was lighter and smaller. I wish the Letus had the iOS software and device communication of the Ronin. Letus customer service reps know their stuff but don't always answer the phone. Ronin reps always answer the phone but don't always know their stuff. I liked the footage I shot with the Letus much better, but then again, that is just MY personal footage. I own the Letus so I have used it more. I'm sure if I owned the Ronin I would be better with that. I feel like the Letus needs another year of software development. I feel like DJI needs to figure out how to lose that stand and make it a bit more robust.
These are just my observations. Hope they help.
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Eric Santiago
Well-known member
Thanks Derek that was awesome!!
As far as the Ronin is on set, you def need to have an extra stand attached to a C-Stand set to a Point A and B placement.
I also noticed they are (my Scarlet gear) using it less and less due to the weight issues and balancing.
In Ronins defense this is the first time this crew has used one.
As far as the Ronin is on set, you def need to have an extra stand attached to a C-Stand set to a Point A and B placement.
I also noticed they are (my Scarlet gear) using it less and less due to the weight issues and balancing.
In Ronins defense this is the first time this crew has used one.
GT Le
Well-known member
Thank you for that frank and balanced review, Derek.
Here's the the answer to your request as far as the iOS app. We are almost to the finish line with the app (Approx. 2 weeks).
Here are a picture of a few screen grabs for your viewing pleasure. Since your Helix is currently in the shop please let me know if you want me to install the WiFi module which the iOS app requires.
Here's the the answer to your request as far as the iOS app. We are almost to the finish line with the app (Approx. 2 weeks).
Here are a picture of a few screen grabs for your viewing pleasure. Since your Helix is currently in the shop please let me know if you want me to install the WiFi module which the iOS app requires.
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Stacey Spears
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Derek, that was some wonderfully well balanced feedback, thank you for sharing!
Barasz Mathieu
Active member
Hi GT Le
i own an helix with BT module.
For the new IOS app, have i send my unit for installing the Wifi module or not ?
Have you made the hooks for the "Exhauss" and how could i buy one pair ?
i own an helix with BT module.
For the new IOS app, have i send my unit for installing the Wifi module or not ?
Have you made the hooks for the "Exhauss" and how could i buy one pair ?
Ned Wilson
Well-known member
Great breakdown. I'm not as computer savvy as most and that's pretty much why I got rid of my Helix after 24 hours of wrestling with software. I just couldn't see myself doing that with a client. The Ronin on the other hand, I had up and running quickly but it took a few outings before I figured out how to customize the settings to get the robotic look out and make it smooth. You really have to have your different settings for different rigs. I have my Epic/Prime and my A7s/Rokinon settings.
Ronin is a bitch to use for long takes which is why I got an Exo on order. Another thing DJI should consider is better gripping handles (they slip unless you really put the hurt on the toggles) as well as handle extensions so we can get closer to eye level without going inverted. Other design issues is the battery should protrude from the side, not the rear so you can hold it closer. Also, it would've been nice if the voltage and storage of the battery would be enough to power an Epic. Right now, we're all doing all sorts of ad hoc goofiness to fly our batteries.
Bryan Koss
Well-known member
Dan Dumouchel
Well-known member
Are there plans for an iOS app with the Helix?
Note Suwanchote
Well-known member
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111668909559?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649
It's the Altervest
Similar to Atlas I'd say
Maz Mawlawi
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I agree with almost everything Derek said. We used both gimbals a lot. The Letus team and support is second to none (GT and Hien are simply two amazing and wonderful people!) and the Helix is indeed easier to handle weight wise....but having said that the software on the Helix is simply horrendous (not Letus' fault as they are using off the shelve software). It's so difficult to understand what anything does and tuning anything requires tons of guesswork and deep understanding of voodoo magic... The helix is also not very easy to balance and takes more time to setup properly in my opinion. We can setup a Ronin in 5 minutes with a Dragon. Even though I strongly believe that the Helix is a better gimbal we end up using the Ronin 95% of the time because how easy it is to balance and how simple and straightforward the interface and software really are. Anyone on our team can easily tune and setup the Ronin with very little prior knowledge....The Helix requires you to do a lot of research, youtube watching and guesswork to get it right. If GT and Hien can come up with a custom software like the Ronin they would have the ultimate gimbal....until then I have to give the Ronin an edge and would recommend it over the Helix especially for people new to the gimbal world.
Bob Gundu
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Josh Becker
Well-known member
Ooh, an iPhone app would be great... but it's a bummer that we'll have to send in the thing for a wifi upgrade. I've barely had mine for a month (and I've spent the last two weeks away from it) and I haven't even gotten it fine-tuned to get rid of the vibration/shakes! Most of the reason I've had issues with that is due to the software and needing to manually tune it.
When I borrowed a friend's Ronin: Had my camera on, balanced, and rolling within the first hour. Shot for a few hours for fun. Packed it up and gave it back to him that night.
With my Helix: Tinkered with it for a few days, a bit shaky. Read the manual more, try different profiles. Still a bit shaky, find out about PID tuning and try installing software. Spend a couple hours trying to fiddle with PID numbers in hopes it will make it smooth. Get bored and go find something else to do. Repeat the last few over several days. Still haven't shot anything on my Helix...
I should probably find time next week to Skype with Letus and get it all sorted out! I'm sure a little guidance would go a long way.
When I borrowed a friend's Ronin: Had my camera on, balanced, and rolling within the first hour. Shot for a few hours for fun. Packed it up and gave it back to him that night.
With my Helix: Tinkered with it for a few days, a bit shaky. Read the manual more, try different profiles. Still a bit shaky, find out about PID tuning and try installing software. Spend a couple hours trying to fiddle with PID numbers in hopes it will make it smooth. Get bored and go find something else to do. Repeat the last few over several days. Still haven't shot anything on my Helix...
I should probably find time next week to Skype with Letus and get it all sorted out! I'm sure a little guidance would go a long way.
Eric Santiago
Well-known member
Been showing this video to local Ronin owners.
They are diggin this clip and have buyers remorse.
Now how does this setup work with Fourth Axis.
I remember seeing one photo but no videos.
Mike Garrick
Well-known member
It seems the people having issues with Helix are the IOS guys (I was one of them).
Fortunately I had a pc computer lying around and used that to get a Helix Jnr going. With the provided pc UI software its pretty easy. Just download the Epic User profiles and your good with some minor mod-ing.
The other thing I would recommend everyone get bluetooth/ wifi module when buying new .....no hook ups , fast & easy for a $100 whats not to like.
When Letus release the IOS App., Helix will be the gun gimbal IMO.
Fortunately I had a pc computer lying around and used that to get a Helix Jnr going. With the provided pc UI software its pretty easy. Just download the Epic User profiles and your good with some minor mod-ing.
The other thing I would recommend everyone get bluetooth/ wifi module when buying new .....no hook ups , fast & easy for a $100 whats not to like.
When Letus release the IOS App., Helix will be the gun gimbal IMO.