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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Let's talk ergonomics...

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Fantastic post, Brook. I really hope RED is paying heed to the suggestions presented here. With EPIC, they have the chance to not only correct the RED ONE's ergonomics issues, but to truly make the ultimate Hollywood camera.
 
Right on Brook!

Awesome post. Dead on. Red PLEASE incorporate this valuable feedback from your loyal community!

And please incorporate lens data systems - both i/ and LDS.

Thanks,

M
 
I find it strange that no one from Red has voiced an opinion on this thoughtful and informative post. It would be helpful to hear the rationale for some of the design decisions made on the Epic as shown at NAB.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Haven't used the 235, but have used the 416, and can't agree more about ergonomics. Much better than the SR's I was used to, and leaps and bounds above HD cameras.

Haven't used RED yet, but it looks ungainly. There's a reason why film camera's are built the way they are: the design has been refined for more than a century. By this point, they've got it right.

Learn from film cameras.
 
Brook, nice post.
Haven't used the Red One in hand held mode yet, but if you find the lens port is way too high for your taste could you not turn the camera upside down, invert and flip your EVF or monitor to the other side and then invert the image in post?
 
Matt Uhry said:
I find it strange that no one from Red has voiced an opinion on this thoughtful and informative post.
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...uh oh! Does this mean that many aspects of the Epic are already carved in stone?

It certainly is strange to have such a well presented thread where almost everyone is agreeing completely! Maybe Team Red only responds to the controversial ones.
 
..........
 
CrewPix.com said:
Maybe Team Red only responds to the controversial ones.
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Well if controversy will get their attention...

Keep this under your hat but word on the street is Lindsay Lohan is having Jarreds (giant) baby. Keep that on the down low though okay CrewPix.


By the way I have talked with Brook about all his suggestions here quite a while ago and am in 110% agreement. Please Red hear these cry's.
 
doc659 said:
Brook, nice post.
Haven't used the Red One in hand held mode yet, but if you find the lens port is way too high for your taste could you not turn the camera upside down, invert and flip your EVF or monitor to the other side and then invert the image in post?
Click to expand...

Yes in theory, but not really a practical solution if you think about where the cables, buttons and other controls would end up.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
This is the best thread I've ever read on these boards.

I'm looking for right angle mini-xlr connectors so those tiny things don't break off my Red. Something that keeps them tucked along the body like Brook said is the only way to go. Cables sticking out just sucks. I remember the first few months I had my Reds I was obsessed with getting right angle power cables, eventually I just forgot about this issue but it's still the worst. What ever happened with this anyway, is it just not possible due to the keying of the ports? I hate how I cringe whenever I tilt the camera back and the powercable gets crunched a bit. Totally unacceptable. I feel bad nit picking like this but it's only because I love this camera so much and want Epic to rule like it should.

Right angle mini-xlr adapters anyone? I recently got my right angle HDMI on and it's nice. After reading this thread I realize I shouldn't have to be buying this stuff anyway...

It would be great to see more renders and more development of Epic/Scarlet, even more discussion and refining of the body using the forums. I can see why that doesn't happen though too
 
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Thanks for the kind words, Zak.

It's worth noting again that it's not just some crazy idea... it's something everybody universally agrees with. Not just the people on the board... but every professional I've worked with [and trust me, since I wrote this post months ago... lots of people have seen it].
 
Two more things:

arri235mm.jpg

EPIC+battery+red-drive should be light and ergonomic something that is closer to ARRIFLEX 235.

Also P+S Technik's IMS on EPIC with PL optical viewfinder of course.

And you'll get the most ergonomic and mount versatile cine digital camera in the industry for the next 5 years.
 
There's nothing ergonomic about a film mag. It shifts the weight back but that's about it. I don't see why epic has to be like a film camera when it doesn't need a big mag stuck on it. There are functional reasons why film cameras are shaped in certain ways. It's because they have constraints to work with like movement, motor, spinning shutter etc. The rest is just molded around that to make it reasonably ergonomic. Why do you think the D20 is practically a box? Because electronics fits to box better and doesn't need to have funky shapes inside it.

I like EPIC because it's small and it's a black slate to mold the camera into what you want with accessories. Hard to believe you all want a more restrictive form factor than one that's more customizable.
 
Ariana,

instead of a film magazine on EPIC back you get RED drive+Battery.

That's a balance between lens+matte-box+viewfiner in front to RED Drive+battery on back.

I a middle is EPIC body.

Hope this help to imagine.
 
My point is that the battery/drive can go anywhere. Why overdesign it so that's the ONLY place you could put it.
 
Ariana said:
Why do you think the D20 is practically a box? Because electronics fits to box better and doesn't need to have funky shapes inside it.
Click to expand...

Actually the D20&21 comes pretty close to the 535 the only difference is that the back is not as rounded as a mag is, but pretty close.

And yes the EPIC will have a battery and drive in the back and if that can be designed ergonomically for handheld balance, just like mags for the 235 well.... we don't need to say more.

Edit: And I think it should be like the normal mag design not the steadicam mag as shown in third mans pic


Fredrik Callinggard
 
Ariana ! Without supposing what Brook was saying my take on his design is that it allows for the most comfortable and ergonomical use of the Epic.
It does not follow that the mag/battery/red drive must be the same size mag on a 235, it just must be balanced and proportional. Personally I like Brooks idea. Sure the Red One is modular but this does not mean it is the optimal design for ergonimical use. Good but not as natural a feel as the 235.
One reservation I would have is that whatever design form the Epic takes please make sure the old fashioned tripod configuration is rock solid.
I think Red is a lucky company to have so many dedicated supporters helping them develop and improve their products. keep up the good work !!!
 
I'd like to ad that if it's done cleverly it can still be modular. Now ARRI has the same with the possibilities for normal, steadi and 435 mags. So all it needs is to be slightly shoulder "cut out' to match a shoulder cut out on Epic. Then it can always be placed elsewhere. Maybe there can be a shoulder pad solution for when you want to go handheld and have it in the back.

Lets say it's "underslunged" on top rods for shoulder cut out and top mounted for an 435 mag feel. When it's underslunged there's a solution for "sliding in" a shoulder pad for handheld (just an example), as a soft cushion.

If you want it "top" mounted on base rods you could do so as well. It's possible if it's all "click on" based, like V or goldmount.

Just throwing ideas out there.


Fredrik
 
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