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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Laing Custom Steadicam Group Buy

BRANDON JAMESON said:
Isn't this why Steadicams cost as much as they do?

I think when you buy one of these gadgets, you're paying not just for design expertise and quality assurance, but customer support and a network of global resellers to deal with repairs, upgrades and technical support.

This is why we choose RED products and the dedicated team of sales and aftercare service experts over other manufacturers who cannot provide the same level of innovation, quality and customer support.

In the long run, this kind of precision machinery requires regular maintenance and the security of knowing if it goes down, there's an expert nearby with technical expertise and a loaner if necessary! :)
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To be fair, I've tried the Merlin, the CMR Blackbird, the HD4000, and now this. The Merlin construction has way too many plastic parts and parts that don't fit together all that well. The Blackbird is the same thing but I would rate it higher than the Merlin. The Laing workmanship is LOADS above a Merlin or Blackbird. All metal, great fit, etc. But the Glidecam HD series are definitely better.

BTW, in terms of arms and vests, do you guys recommend the Merlin vest/arm or the Glidecam X10 vest/arm?

And is there any way to get this Laing vest and arm to work with a Blackbird or HD4000?
 
Victor, I suggest just wait few remaining days for replacements. I am sure all will be ok.

All gymbals pass special tolerances tests, and 100% of rigs are tested multiple times on each stage.
 
Hi Sebastian,
Sorry I don't visit here regularly. I've been extremely busy. Re Multiple springs. I don't think the latest arm for the red user has multiple springs. This new arm has a spring configured for the red camera. The spring is more difficult to replace.
Laing was kind enough to send me 2 softer springs with my M-02 model. I figured out a DIY way of replacing the springs. While doing my demo for dynamic balancing, I tested the new arm with a scarlet weight equivalent and balanced it dynamically. Then I replaced the springs with a soft one to test dynamic balancing on a DSLR Camera with a stripped down post. I was able to balance the Scarlet weight and DSLR weight easily. Why don't you ask Vitaliy if Laing can supply you with an extra spring. I can give you instructions on how to replace the red arm springs. I have the new arm but not the new reduser sled and post.
Re Victor Lin's comment on losing dynamic balance. Please see the tutorial I made for rebalancing. It's possible that the heat from the back of your car had affected your initial balance. The gimbal is so precise that the slightest change in the weight on your post, camera or sled will affect dynamic balance. I suggest you start again. After, achieving balance the first time, I find it reliable to move the camera by 1mm, then rebalance (see video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvsr0I4K-5Q
 
I don't think the latest arm for the red user has multiple springs. This new arm has a spring configured for the red camera.
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Each rig comes with two sets of springs, one is installed. For users of Epic softer springs are installed, for Red One owner - harder ones.
It all depends on your usage patterns, and it is good chance if you need something more custom (like second set for small camera you also have), or ultra hard for 3D rig.
 
Hi Victor, I just checked the new reduser rig and brandon's pictures. The reduser version is really nice. I wish, I was just ordering my Laing just now. The gimbal is the same as mine but the post size is bigger. You can adjust the gimbal but do this only if you are very sure that your gimbal can no longer be balanced dynamically. The gimbal is a mechanical marvel so there are no internal parts. However heat can expand steel or aluminum the slightest bit. I suggest you test it again. I'm sure you'll be able to achieve dynamic balance again. You will really need to fine tune your balance from time to time. What is important is that you are able to acheive dynamic balance.
I've been modifying a old glidecam post and an Indian rig for years so I'm very familiar with it's principles. I even tried making my own gimbal but it required so much precision and balance, I finally gave up.
There is a 14mm screw on each side of the Laing gimbal. It's locked down but it can be forced to turn with a backwrench. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHICH SIDE AND WHICH DIRECTION TO TURN (i.e. if your gimbal leans left, turn the right screw counter clockwise in very tiny increments. The opposite screw must be turned (in the same direction) in equal increments). I don't want to get into this because your gimbal should be perfectly balanced when you get it. I am not sure if Laing will allow you to tamper with the gimbal.
The older tiffen gimbals have this option. You need to use a special tool that tiffen provides.
 
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The gimbal is the same as mine but the post size is bigger.
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Eric, this is inaccurate claim. All the parts and bearings are different.
I think you mean that basic construction and adjustment that you are talking about are the same.
 
When diagnosing balance issues, it is helpful to use a "digital bubble level" app like Clinometer which will give you increments of 0.1 degree and gives useful data. Perhaps the early users of the Laing Red version could do the "four direction static balance test" with a digital level when the rig is fully loaded and let us know how it tolerances are looking in the field.

Laing is going to have to work extra hard to overcome the quality control doubts that have been raised by the M02 gimbal issue (and similar in the mini P03). The best way to do this is for Laing to shoot video of how each test is conducted in the factory, using digital measurements of tolerances which would also appear on the spec sheet. This would be a first for a manufacturer, and would really provide a great boost to the trustworthiness of the brand. If the quality is truly there, then sing it from the rooftops.

It would be helpful for M02 users like Victor to receive instructions from the factory to adjust the seating of the gimbal using the side screws that Eric mentioned. It would also be good to get clarification as to whether this "side screw adjustment feature" has been carried over to the re-designed Red version gimbal, as it has not even been mentioned before.

Eric speculated that Victor's second M02 rig may have had issues with dynamic balance, but the issue is related to static balance which is even more fundamental. Dynamic balance relates to the additional effects of centrifugal forces only encountered when panning or spinning the rig. If a rig cannot pass the "four direction static balance test" it will never achieve dynamic balance. Eric suggested also that heat may have caused the gimbal to expand or warp, but I haven't ever heard this being a problem for any make of stabiliser. It remains a mystery as to why Victor's second rig developed its off-centre problem.
 
Laing is going to have to work extra hard to overcome the quality control doubts that have been raised by the M02 gimbal issue (and similar in the mini P03).
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We don't have any systematic quality control issues with gymbals.
Examples you try to bring here relate to few old M-02 model rigs that are completely not related to group buy topic.
And all of the customers who reported any such problems (one exactly for now, as I do not see any PMs or email from Kwan despite I asked to contact) were sent replacement gymbals instantly.
We'll get all of their gymbals and will make full research of any possible issues cause.

The best way to do this is for Laing to shoot video of how each test is conducted in the factory, using digital measurements of tolerances which would also appear on the spec sheet. This would be a first for a manufacturer, and would really provide a great boost to the trustworthiness of the brand. If the quality is truly there, then sing it from the rooftops.
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Thanks for your advice.
Can you please refer me to such videos released by other stabilizers manufacturers?
 
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Vitaliy Kiselev said:
Each rig comes with two sets of springs, one is installed. For users of Epic softer springs are installed, for Red One owner - harder ones.
It all depends on your usage patterns, and it is good chance if you need something more custom (like second set for small camera you also have), or ultra hard for 3D rig.
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That's good. I will use the rig with a Red One (so heavy) and probably with a very light Canon Mk3.

Tomorrow I will order the steadicam, but I'm having difficulty to choose between the 2 versions.
Anyway, after I will receive the unit, I will post back here.
 
The new gimbal is beefier. It's very well made. It's the same design as the M-02 but bigger so it can carry higher payloads and accommodate a thicker carbon fiber post. It's normal to check and fine tune balance from time to time. It doesn't mean the gimbal is not precise. The slightest shift in weight in your set up can influence it. This is also why we take great efforts that all the cables, accessories and attachments on your rig is secure. Lock everything down before flying. Again, I repeat, do not touch the 14mm screws, this is my DIY hack, I'm just saying it can be done. Your gimbal is precision balanced already. Only a precise gimbal can achieve dynamic balance. Even poorly made gimbals can be statically balanced. I get dynamic balance everytime. I suggest you go thru the tutorials if you seem to be unable to achieve dynamic balance. You should be able to achieve it again and again. Do the 1mm camera setback once you've achieved balance then adjust and do a final balance. Check each direction for static balance, north, south,east, west, then spin very gently from the top of the gimbal. Hope this helps.
 
Hello everybody, our Steadicam has been arrived and everything is in perfekt quality.
Thanks to Mr. Kiselev! He did a good Job!
Marinus Brückmann
 
I am interested just lost in all the threads lol.
So whats available how much how long how to buy?

Thanks
 
I received the rig (ultra fast delivery - just 2 days for half the globe distance) and I'm impressed. Everything seems very nice and solid and smooth. I will post again when I get to test it but that will take a while due to lack of time (perhaps a few weeks).
 
Hi,


I'm interested about this stead but i want to know in wich case i will need the lemo box version?
 
Victor, have you had any improvement with the 3rd, new gimbal? I'm kind of curious how these go off balance. I saw the various videos you posted on youtube in how the rig was balanced in one direction, but goes out of balance when you spin it around the other direction. http://youtu.be/OZTSayNe3FI

How do we prevent this from happening, or is it a manufacturing issue? I know other older versions of the M-02 are still being sold with the old gimbal still online. Are all these being replaced as well? I assume storage, heat and daily use should be something these rigs can endure day after day, but would be afraid of a gimbal malfunctioning randomly before an important shoot.
 
Woww Really Grade Product I like it..
 
Patrick, I will reply here.

Unfortunately I didn't had the time yet to test the rig, but I inspected it and I thought it looked very good, carefully made - like typical high quality stuff.
Like Eric Teotico said - I find it hard to believe that gimbal can just go off balance. It think it is based on some simple (and probably high quality) ball bearing inside. It's not like it has some sophisticated electronics inside. The bearing I think - could be either completely broke - like a crushed ball inside or something (highly unlikely for at least years of usage) , or perfectly working.

But I will tell more when I'll get to actually use the thing.
 
Ok, I just received my Laing Custom Reduser steadicam. I guess I caught the factory during a holiday break so I didn't hear anything for 6 days after paying. An inquiry sent back profuse apologies from Vitaliy and Tracy Xie at the factory. I was notified a couple of days later of shipping and a tracking number so I followed the progress from Hong Kong to Anchorage AK, Memphis and arriving a day early via FedEx!

So I can compare from rigs I have experience with which are Glidecam Smoothshooter that I've owned for 5 years and Steadicam Flyer, which I've used occasionally. First off, the materials and manufacture are quite good. Nice finish on the aluminum machining and parts fit and move well. Aluminum is painted, not color anodized though. This might start showing its age quite soon. But I think well-used rigs look better than new anyway. Bolts and accessory screws are good quality stainless steel, for instance, the camera attach screws can be tightened with the folding 'D' ring, screwdriver/coin or allen wrench. Camera plate is geared for fore/aft balance and the knob is pulled sideways to disengage to remove the plate. After finding balance, a second knob clamps the plate in place. I do find the gear knob has a very course adjustment and needs a fine touch to not overshoot the balance. A leadscrew design rather than a rack/pinion would have a better feel. Side balance has a separate screw adjustment and this is a leadscrew design and other than backlash, works well. Bubble level vials for both axis are on the head, inexpensive plastic but are less than 1/2 a degree off from level. I didn't get the lemo box option so no info there. Tilt head is easy to use and uses quick clamps that can be adjusted easily. First rig with this feature so can't compare with anything. The post is 2" carbon fiber! Biggest damn post I've ever operated with. A handful (literally) and wonderful to have that level of precision. The gimbal grip is tool-less (yay) for adjustment. The grip has a very smooth finish that might not give enough grip if sweaty, so I might wrap in gaffers tape. The actual gimbal is smooth in all axis. I'll check for concentric bearing at a later date. 2 piece post with again toolless adjustment. The monitor arm is mounted on the upper post section and does not allow you to get the monitor low and out of the way. But plenty of adjustment for dynamic balance is available. Battery mount can be rotated up, horizontal or down. It came with an unwired plate mounted to the sled and a second plate with the Red connector wired on a long cable (to be fed up the post). Looks like both cannot be mounted at the same time with stock hardware, but a little rigging could change that. The vest is better than Glidecam or Flyer vest, but when ratchet adjustment units are readily available, I don't know why plastic belt clips are still used on the waist and torso sections of so many rigs. Definitely want to change that out soon. Easy adjustment of breastpiece length and socket height. And that stylish "camera support" (™) label front and center. I think I'm going to start a contract company that renames chinese products for the western market. They SO need it.

I have to spend more time with the arm to comment on it (it has potential issues in reliability), but the Hotweel label was not included on this version. I'll post more on that later after I fly it a while. If anyone is in the DC area with an EFP rig or larger, I'd love to get together and compare the arms to name-brand stuff.

Vitaliy and Tracy, if you're reading, good job. I'm pleased with my purchase and hope it serves me well.
[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif][/FONT]
More later,
Jason
 
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