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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Laing Custom Steadicam Group Buy

It is good to see the initial video from Ben Allan whose general impressions are positive.

Laing may be having teething problems though. A report surfaced on steadicamforum.com in early May regarding a possibly off-centre bearing. Victor Lin bought 2 x Laing M02 stabilisers for his production business and one of them has an off-centre pan bearing, clearly illustrated in a video uploaded today which he has cleared to be passed on to discussion forums: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEQZ_PwnPFY

It is early days for the Laing brand and we do not know how rigorous the quality control procedures are at the factory ... is this a 1% occurence or a 10%? It would be nice to know that every rig was properly tested in the factory before shipping, and for Laing to provide specific detail (and even video) of the actual tests it does and the standards it guarantees. This information would form the basis of a detailed returns/service policy.

And regarding the test video from Ben Allan, such shots rely on a certain degree of operator skill such as dampening of the pendulum effect. To assess fundamental quality of the rig, it is perhaps equally (or more?) useful at this early stage to see videos of baseline tests that require no operating skill, just correct setup ... e.g. running on the spot and jumping up and down with no hands, walking 360 degrees around the rig with no hands, spinning the rig end over end, dynamic balance spin tests, demonstration of boom iso-elasticity under various loads, max/min loads that stil allow the arm to float level, etc. Such tests show bearing quality and allignment and essential parameters which operator skill is then built on. (All opeators have to go through the geeky stage ... but if you ARE already creating great art shots with this rig, by all means share the love.)
 
Nice to see you again. Chris.

Laing may be having teething problems though. A report surfaced on steadicamforum.com in early May regarding a possibly off-centre bearing. Victor Lin bought 2 x Laing M02 stabilisers for his production business and one of them has an off-centre pan bearing, clearly illustrated in a video uploaded today which he has cleared to be passed on to discussion forums: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEQZ_PwnPFY
Click to expand...

First. M02 stabilizer and stabilizer offered to group by members have completely different gymbals. For obvious reasons.

Second. Thanks for referencing this topic. We'll try to contact Ana Melendez to get more details and help her in case she still has any issue with rig, despite that she got her rig from dealer. Same about Victor Lin.
 
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I've tested the Laing on both the DSLR, FS 100, and Scarlet (weight equivalent) rigs. For DSLR, you'll need to install the light black spring (spring size 3mm). With this weight level, you can fly all day. With a very light set up, I like to extend the post all the way to give it more inertia and resistance from my body movements. I prefer a heavier rig because they respond to pans, tilts and floats in slow motion. I've flown it with a 2.8/50mm lens and it's fluid.
Re the gimbal problem, I've never had any problems with mine. It's suppose to arrive already balanced but in case it is not in perfect balance, the gimbal can be fine tuned and is easily adjustable with a 14mm open wrench. It's no different from the original steadicam gimbals except tiffen gimbals require a special tool. I suggest you review the tiffen manual on gimbal adjustment if you are planning to tinker with it. Adjust in very tiny increments. This is a precision gimbal. Remember, the gimbal is the heart of a steadicam. Please adjust only if you are unable to achieve Dynamic Balancing. Please refer to my tutorial video. This tutorial applies to both the DSLR and Scarlet cameras. (For DSLR's skip balancing the camera with a pencil.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvsr0I4K-5Q
Hope this helps.
 
So this model has multiple spring types ? That's nice. I didn't know that. It's not mentioned on the info page even though there is a list with what you get.

And I'm trying to decide between the "Custom rig" and the "Custom rig with lemo boxes" because the price difference is pretty big. The difference seems to be:

"Custom rig"
5. Battery plate with long cable going via pole and ending with 6pin connector


"Custom rig with lemo boxes"
5. Battery plate with short cable with 6pin connector to connect to lower box
7. 6pin to Epic power cable 8. Short D-tap to lemo 2pin cable

What should I get ? In what circumstances would I need the more expensive "Custom rig with lemo boxes" ?
 
Hi all, I'm the one who bought two M-02 gliders that Chris Poynton mentioned. I'm Chinese and I have a friend working for me in China, so we have been communicating directly with the manufacturer and their engineers, not Tracy. We shoot much more basic video than you guys, so we immediately removed the mounts for a monitor, batteries, etc from the rig and went with the bare sled with weights.

You can see the issues that we had here - my friend spoke with the company last night and they are going to be sending me a new stabilizer via FedEx. Not sure when I'm going to get it. They did not collect payment of any kind - they said to send back my old unit only when I am satisfied with the replacement, so I am very satisfied with their customer service. They said that the gimbal requires some specialized tools to adjust, something that I would most likely not have. I screwed off the bolts on the gimbal yesterday as well as the collar that holds the handle to the actual gimbal bearing and I couldn't see anything that could be adjusted.

(Bottom weights not centered)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEQZ_PwnPFY&feature=c4-overview&list=UUs2gDoWu9gHHR0aOklT3nvg

(Bottom weights are centered)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6p9prhK0LU&feature=c4-overview&list=UUs2gDoWu9gHHR0aOklT3nvg

This is our second M-02 that has no balancing issues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfILegesXZA&feature=c4-overview&list=UUs2gDoWu9gHHR0aOklT3nvg


We fly with a very light Panasonic GH3 and lens and together they are maybe 0.5kg.


I had Laing manufacture custom weight / cheese plates for us at 0.5kg per plate. I have 4 plates stacked under the camera + miscellaneous steel nuts and bolts and arca clamp which bring the total weight of everything (camera, lens, plates, misc stuff) to 3kg.

Here are some quick measurements on the arm:

http://paragon.media.storage.s3.amazonaws.com/Laing Arm.jpg

I just inquired with them to see if they can make a modified post that can fit into the 1/2" inner diameter of the CMR Blackbird:

http://paragon.media.storage.s3.amazonaws.com/Blackbird and Laing Arm.jpg

And here are the cheese / weight plates that I had them make for us - holes are all 1/4"

http://paragon.media.storage.s3.amazonaws.com/IMG_20130627_092345.jpg

http://paragon.media.storage.s3.amazonaws.com/IMG_20130627_092421.jpg
 
BTW, does anyone here live in the San Francisco Bay Area?

We can meet up and in exchange for testing out my Laing setup you can help teach me how I should be properly setting up this thing and techniques for flying it.
 
Thaks for update Victor. We talked about your case after Chris mentioning it and all must be arranged to send you replacment.
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
M02 stabilizer and stabilizer offered to group by members have completely different gymbals. For obvious reasons.
Click to expand...

I don't think that it has been made clear previously that there is a different gimbal in the Red version over the M02.

My understanding was that the Red version post diameter had not been increased because Laing did not want to re-design the gimbal. (There was some mention that the carbon fiber in the post had an increase in wall thickness.)

Can the difference in design/manufacture specification please be clarified? Or does "completely different" just refer to batches? In either case, the quality control processes remain unspecified.
 
Hummm.... Lucky Victor,
I found the same trouble and their won't be replacement for my (two M-02) unit.
If Laing do not want to re-design the gimbal then good luck (lol)
 
I found the same trouble and their won't be replacement for my (two M-02) unit.
Click to expand...

You can contact me about this.

If Laing do not want to re-design the gimbal then good luck (lol)
Click to expand...

I really do not know where you get this.
 
understanding was that the Red version post diameter had not been increased because Laing did not want to re-design the gimbal. (There was some mention that the carbon fiber in the post had an increase in wall thickness.)
Click to expand...

It require one minute to check actual group buy rig and that pole diameter is much larger compared to M-02.
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
It require one minute to check actual group buy rig and that pole diameter is much larger compared to M-02.
Click to expand...

Please refer us to the detailed spec sheets for the rigs.

I am going by memory from a vague statement made some time ago regarding the post:

Vitaliy Kiselev said:
No, it just different, better tubes. Not narrower inside.
Click to expand...

RE: CENTERING OF BEARING ... all is not lost. This is an issue in a number of Chinese rigs. From my experience with other brands (e.g. Wondlan, Wieldy) it may be that the actual pan pearing around the post is perfectly round and seated. However there may be problems with the allignment/spacing/seating of the yolk bearings (roll axis). It may be that the addition of very small shim washers (e.g. 0.1-0.2mm thickness) between the bearings and the yolk may resolve the issue if a customer wishes to go down the DIY path, although this should be resolved and tested prior to shipping. Spare shims could be provided, or Laing in future could go down the path of Glidecam and offer screw adjustments in the gimbal for both axes : http://youtu.be/Q3XJ8eToaYo?t=30s

RE: DRAG IN BEARING ... I am not sure how much larger the new Red version pan bearing/post is, but the general rule of thumb is that a larger bearing will have more friction, so needs to be of higher quality. If Laing have achieved "low drag" with the new bearing, then that would be a good thing. This could be shown in a static test with various movements of the operating handle to reveal any "pan drift" (e.g. rotating handle back and forward about 20 degrees to simulate a walking movement, rotating handle 180 degrees to simulate a "switch move during a shot", or rotating handle full 360 degrees by walking around the rig). This can easily be done in the factory for every rig.
 
I asked few times that if you want to discuss stabilizers in general, possible general issues, your fantasies, improvements as you see them, please, make new topic and I'll be glad to participate in it.

If any group buy member want to get spec sheet, more photos, ask questions, he can contact me via PM or form on site.
 
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Guys, just another update.

I got the FedEx tracking number for the new rig.

HOWEVER, our second rig that previously had no balancing issues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfILe...gHHR0aOklT3nvg) now has the same issues. We used it once on a job site and it was fine. Then we take it out of the bag a day later and it is out of whack.

Here is a video with it on the job site. I can't tell you how awesome it is to have broken gear while you're using it for paid work.

http://youtu.be/OZTSayNe3FI

At this point I really, really, want something that just WORKS. Customer service and prompt replacements aside, at the end of the day we need to have something that is reliable and works 100% of the time. Also, we can't continue to spend the time and money on freight for a thing that weighs like 60 pounds and needs to get shipped to CHINA. We are now 0 for 2, and someone on my YouTube posted a comment to my video saying that their lighter P-02 stabilizer is having the same issues, and all this time he thought that he was doing something wrong when in fact it was a workmanship issue from Laing.

Thanks Chris Poynton for all those long emails and walking me through the troubleshooting.

But at this point I'm seriously thinking of asking Laing for my money back and just eat the freight costs on returning them (which is like ~$200 easily for each stabilizer). Then I'll spend the money on quality Glidecams and their vests/arms while at the same time saving up for a Movi knock-off.

Someone convince me otherwise.

EDIT:

We have a Glidecam HD-4000 and a CMR Blackbird. The vest and arm will NOT fit on the Blackbird (Blackbird hole diameter is too small) and it won't fit on the HD-4000 eaither (HD-4000 hole is too big).
 
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At this point I really, really, want something that just WORKS. Customer service and prompt replacements aside, at the end of the day we need to have something that is reliable and works 100% of the time. Also, we can't continue to spend the time and money on freight for a thing that weighs like 60 pounds and needs to get shipped to CHINA. We are now 0 for 2.
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Let's make thing straight.

Replacement gymbal had been sent to you few days ago, you must get it very soon. It is quite small and free for you. So any comments about " 60 pounds" are just not true.

You did not informed about any issues with your second rig yet. It is really very strange.
After checking last report, replacement will be most probably also sent to you.

If you have any other questions, contact me.
 
constantine Tirintzis said:
he is asking about details and specs, something you should have done properly as all manufacturers and representatives do.
you don't refer to a post diameter as bigger or smaller or improved, you refer to it as numbers and tolerances. And there are 2 standard numbers being used, mostly because when one wants to change to another gimbal he can do so from another manufacturer..
try to be more professional instead of telling people silly comments, Chris comment and suggestions are referring to the very rig you are trying to sell, and you might learn something out of this. And don't forget that this is a forum, if one wants to ask something he can very well do so. Its not your advertising board. If you want to have full control make your own forum.
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Amen, and Amen.

I commented after seeing pictures of Tyler Bourns' rig (the new RED edition) that the post looked very beefy, bigger than I expected or detected from pictures of the earlier M-02 version. But my understanding was exactly as Chris stated, that the request for a larger post diameter had been denied by Laing because it would require a redesign of the gimbal. Now we find out that the RED edition does in fact feature a bigger post with a different gimbal than the M-02.

Thanks, Victor, for your detailed feedback on your two M-O2 units and the balancing issues you are experiencing. With Kwan reporting the same trouble, I'm very, very glad I waited, even if it's a different gimbal than the one on the RED unit. I think we need to see some extensive testing on at least a 2-3 different units before I would begin to feel confident buying the RED version. I agree that shipping a heavy product back, even within the US, is expensive and a big hassle. Sending it to China with God knows what kind of customs and paperwork requirements sounds literally like a nightmare.
 
Vitaliy Kiselev said:
Let's make thing straight.

Replacement gymbal had been sent to you few days ago, you must get it very soon. It is quite small and free for you. So any comments about " 60 pounds" are just not true.

You did not informed about any issues with your second rig yet. It is really very strange.
After checking last report, replacement will be most probably also sent to you.

If you have any other questions, contact me.
Click to expand...

You misunderstand. It will be 60 pounds if I decide to ship the entire thing back to China for a refund because I'm getting very frustrated with these quality control issues. Unless I can find someone local who happens to want to buy a no-name Chinese stabilizer kit with balance problems.

I was balancing the second unit today and noticed that it was going out of balance like my first unit so I made a video and posted it.

To the other operators watching my videos, what do you suggest is going on? Should I be adjusting something?
 
Isn't this why Steadicams cost as much as they do?

I think when you buy one of these gadgets, you're paying not just for design expertise and quality assurance, but customer support and a network of global resellers to deal with repairs, upgrades and technical support.

This is why we choose RED products and the dedicated team of sales and aftercare service experts over other manufacturers who cannot provide the same level of innovation, quality and customer support.

In the long run, this kind of precision machinery requires regular maintenance and the security of knowing if it goes down, there's an expert nearby with technical expertise, spare parts and a loaner if necessary! :)
 
Elizabeth Lowrey said:
Amen, and Amen.

I commented after seeing pictures of Tyler Bourns' rig (the new RED edition) that the post looked very beefy, bigger than I expected or detected from pictures of the earlier M-02 version. But my understanding was exactly as Chris stated, that the request for a larger post diameter had been denied by Laing because it would require a redesign of the gimbal. Now we find out that the RED edition does in fact feature a bigger post with a different gimbal than the M-02.

Thanks, Victor, for your detailed feedback on your two M-O2 units and the balancing issues you are experiencing. With Kwan reporting the same trouble, I'm very, very glad I waited, even if it's a different gimbal than the one on the RED unit. I think we need to see some extensive testing on at least a 2-3 different units before I would begin to feel confident buying the RED version. I agree that shipping a heavy product back, even within the US, is expensive and a big hassle. Sending it to China with God knows what kind of customs and paperwork requirements sounds literally like a nightmare.
Click to expand...

Who's Kwan?

I also want to note that my second unit was balancing perfectly during my first video tests and during my first day of shooting with it. Something made it go out of whack between that time and me taking it out of its bag today, just a couple days later. It had been doing nothing but sit in the trunk of our car during that time, so perhaps these have some delicate internals in the gimbal or something? I'm new to stabilizers. Do gimbals like these and those on the Glidecam HD series get damaged really easily?

FYI there is no way for me to adjust anything on my M-02 gimbal. I read that Glidecam gimbals can be adjusted easily with basic tools should they go out of whack.
 
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