KOMODO....

[rand thompson]

RED Komodo FPV - Drifting


By RossHasAdrone

Greenhill Winery & Vineyards | Shot on RED KOMODO | Sigma 18-35mm 1.4 | Middleburg, Virginia


By
rexarrowfilms

 

[andrewhake]

I am seeing right around 520MB/s transfer speeds with the Angelbird 512GB cards and the Angelbird USB-C reader.

About 15mins to make a backup a a full 512GB.

 

[rand thompson]

KOMODO ST000134 part 1


By VICTORIMAGE

Great examples of the rolling shutter capabilities of the camera of outside scenery being shot by the Komodo from inside a moving train. This is from about the 00:43 to 02:20 minute mark.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Mentioned before about the AF that face tracking is crucial. Just as Marques says in this video, the AF relies on "future updates" and he cannot recommend the camera based on "future promises".
Personally, I'm not getting the Komodo based on the promise of AF, because I have cine-lenses to work with instead, but it would be a nice add to have a good AF. But the general thing here is that the AF needs really good software to work and we need some really good face tracking inside this camera in order for the AF to truly have potential.

So I really hope there's some R&D looking into such software solution for Komodo, because it would be awesome to rival the DSLR AF world, but getting Red quality images instead.

 

[Petar Smilajkov]

As Jarred said many times, auto focus is just not easy... Canon and Sony have hundreds of thousands of engineering hours under their belt to finally be able to offer what we see now in say R5 or A7S IV ...

But I agree - once the AF on Komodo is honed in... it'll be a complete game changer ... Best part is - it's all in software after all ... Maybe Komodo's firmware can be opened up in a way to let others contribute? 3rd party plugins like AF? I know this is a far fetched idea, but who knows ...

I still can't wait to get mine ... Supposedly in a week or two ... Excited!

 

[rand thompson]

6K RED Komodo In-Depth Review | Best Indie Cinema Camera!?


By Indy Mogul

RED Komodo 6K Footage & First Impressions


By Hyder Tech

RED Komodo Live Discussion - Q&A - Real World Use



By Reduser Members Scott Balkum and Joey Heim

The RED Komodo |The Best "Budget Pro" Cinema Camera?




By Brandon Washington

RED Komodo Test - Ball Python


By Dan Wagner

 

[Christopher A. Bell]

Kinda funny that the Indy Mogul review refers to the Wooden Camera V-Mount battery adapter, while showing a Gold Mount plate and battery. I think a LOT of people that haven't been in this business for a long time don't know any better and generically refer to all "brick" batts as V-Mounts.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

once the AF on Komodo is honed in... it'll be a complete game changer ... Best part is - it's all in software after all ... Maybe Komodo's firmware can be opened up in a way to let others contribute? 3rd party plugins like AF? I know this is a far fetched idea, but who knows ...

The problem is that there's no guarantee this tech won't just be something advanced but never practical or used during production. Without the software part, it will just be unused tech. The only way for the AF system to be of practical use for actual productions would be if it gets a software upgrade to face-track and eye-track. It's the whole reason it's so powerful on Canon and Sony.

I think that because Red is already using both Canon RF mount and Canon batteries, why not get Canon involved with the AF system. Imagine getting Canon's AF software put into this. I would gladly pay more for the camera if it had that AF system added.

 

[Nick Morrison]

The problem is that there's no guarantee this tech won't just be something advanced but never practical or used during production. Without the software part, it will just be unused tech. The only way for the AF system to be of practical use for actual productions would be if it gets a software upgrade to face-track and eye-track. It's the whole reason it's so powerful on Canon and Sony.

I think that because Red is already using both Canon RF mount and Canon batteries, why not get Canon involved with the AF system. Imagine getting Canon's AF software put into this. I would gladly pay more for the camera if it had that AF system added.

A friend has a Komodo and is already reporting the AF is no joke. Have to imagine it's only going to get better. I also have a strong feeling both AF and Global Shutter are going to be the defining features for RED in DSMC3. I view Komodo as a "test baby" for the much larger beasts TK in DSMC3.

Basically, I'm assuming DSMC3 will feature one or several of these Komodo Sensors:

8K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 36mm and Vista Vision)
10K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 45mm and larger than Monstro)
12K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 54mm and basically a Hasselblad, which is what a Komodo looks like)

 

[Adam D. Ouellette]

Kinda funny that the Indy Mogul review refers to the Wooden Camera V-Mount battery adapter, while showing a Gold Mount plate and battery. I think a LOT of people that haven't been in this business for a long time don't know any better and generically refer to all "brick" batts as V-Mounts.

Probably just an editorial mistake.....

 

[Jon Dishler]

I would be concerned if we extrapolate the data rates with the new compression method of the Komodo to 8/10/12k and especially for 60+ fps that a 1 TB card would be filled up in just a few minutes. For special applications like a drone, not an issue, but for everything else, this is a consideration, maybe DSMC3 will stick with wavelet?

 

[Michael Tiemann]

A friend has a Komodo and is already reporting the AF is no joke. Have to imagine it's only going to get better. I also have a strong feeling both AF and Global Shutter are going to be the defining features for RED in DSMC3. I view Komodo as a "test baby" for the much larger beasts TK in DSMC3.

Basically, I'm assuming DSMC3 will feature one or several of these Komodo Sensors:

8K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 36mm and Vista Vision)
10K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 45mm and larger than Monstro)
12K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 54mm and basically a Hasselblad, which is what a Komodo looks like)

Well-spotted. I hope that all three come to pass. I love the idea of feeding 6K Komodos the S35 image circle of my zoom lenses, and 12K DSMC3s the beyond-VV image circle of my Tokina Vista primes.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Well-spotted. I hope that all three come to pass. I love the idea of feeding 6K Komodos the S35 image circle of my zoom lenses, and 12K DSMC3s the beyond-VV image circle of my Tokina Vista primes.

Haha, I hear you. Larger Komodos' are exciting to think about right? It's hard not to think that deep within the halls of RED they aren't mulling all this over. I mean it's just impossible to ignore that when you extrapolate Komodo to 8K it lands EXACTLY at Vista Vision, and 12K is almost EXACTLY at Hasselblad.

Also keep in mind as production relies more on green screen an FX (think Mandaloreon), Global Shutter is going to become more and more important. I really think RED is taking this all into account.

I have to say, in the middle of a pandemic it's quite inspiring to think of RED trying hard - with AF, global shutter, and maybe larger sensors - to plan for the future of production. Good on them.

 

[Phil Holland]

Well-spotted. I hope that all three come to pass. I love the idea of feeding 6K Komodos the S35 image circle of my zoom lenses, and 12K DSMC3s the beyond-VV image circle of my Tokina Vista primes.

When I grabbed my Komodo I had lots of questions regarding exactly this for Jarred, particularly 8K. The obvious answers to me are it would be a more expensive and likely larger camera no matter what once you go up in sensor size, data rates, and other hardware needed to support that. But to what extent, unknown. Also unknown if Komodo's particular sensor design has higher FPS possible. So lots of questions there. So in the case of the most nimble form factor I think it was a combination of factors that squished everything into the Komodo box.

RED's on the right path when it comes to image quality and usability lately with the new tech in Komodo. I'd love to see how this manifests down the line.

Kinda funny with all the long time shooters here looking back at the original roadmaps and where things ended up. Just an example, what Monstro 8K VV is better than the original plan for a "FF35 Monstro" sensor IMO as well as notably rather nice gains in dynamic range.

I still have these old images on my server from 2008 before I purchased my Scarlet-X back when I was looking hard at Epic:

Still unsure about a 617 cinema camera on a practical level And I was very sure a mere 2/3"s 3K camera wasn't very appealing to cinematographers generally speaking (yes I know there are some die hard 2/3'ers out there, but just not something filmmakers are attracted to).

It's 2020 now. We've had full generations of much of what was/is on this list. Next decade is going to be nuts with all the new possible tech. A camera like Komodo a few years ago was a much heavier, larger, and more expensive proposition until pretty recently. Which truly makes the mind wander about DSMC3.

My fingers are crossed. At least in the journey of RED One (rented, never owned) to DSMC (when I bought in) and DSMC2 RED has been checking things off my personal list of things I look for and need in cameras. With Epic really being the thing. I still have stuff on my list even after the latest generations, but my list is indeed smaller.

Overall from a Monstro shooter's perspective I do like having multiple formats in a system for days when I want to go for 8K VV or something like 5-6K S35 shooting. That's not for everybody. I've met plenty of people who never shoot below the maximum format/resolution of the camera.

The bigger changes are the industry itself with the advent of streaming, HDR, the rapidly growing trend of 4K delivery, and the still growing world of 8K delivery, with 2K still being the most common thing to do. With some of the newer workflows like more standardized virtual production ecosystems, I can certainly think of things ideal for all of the emerging markets to put in these cameras.

So far all the cameras to date have been capable of 4K and 2K delivery with a few capable of 8K as well. HDR wasn't standardized back then, but all of these cameras to date are capable of HDR workflows which we've seen.

On the TV/home theater side of things, 6K in home was talked about by some of my clients long ago and certainly became relevant on the computer side of things. But for now it's all 1080p (huge amount of displays), 2160p (a whole lot of displays), and 4320p (still growing) for a long while to come.

3D and HFR have been the chaos pool in terms of delivery. We of course need to overcrank for slow motion, but I don't know if we need to see films at 120p. Though I do like sports in particular at higher frame rates like 60p 4K. Got to see a 60p 8K tennis match broadcast over IP at NAB and was actually really blown away on 55 through 70 inch displays. 3D I think will zoom back around again in a different form once again. It's certainly profitable from a theatrical perspective.

One thing the industry is uncovering at the moment (and has been this whole last decade) is the relationship between judder, HFR, and HDR. General panning speeds were developed in a very different world/time. There's new tools coming to dance better with these new more dynamic contrast ratios, but it's 100% something you need to think about when producing content for HDR. And this is coming from somebody who likes shooting 24fps for HDR. I know it's a fine line, but frame rate does still have a visual impact on viewers.

 

[andrewhake]

Wanted to report that Nuke has implemented the latest Red SDK with support for Komodo footage in Nuke 12.2. Have been playing around with some Komodo footage on the Pro Display XDR in various tools and it is looking very nice indeed. Very easy to work with it in FCPX and output HDR10 content in prores or HEVC. Working in rec2020 and st2048.

Once you have viewed Red footage on a proper HDR display looking at it on an SDR display is torture. There is entire world beyond 0-1. Really can't wait for 1000nit+ HDR displays to become the norm.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

(snip) One thing the industry is uncovering at the moment (and has been this whole last decade) is the relationship between judder, HFR, and HDR. General panning speeds were developed in a very different world/time. There's new tools coming to dance better with these new more dynamic contrast ratios, but it's 100% something you need to think about when producing content for HDR. And this is coming from somebody who likes shooting 24fps for HDR. I know it's a fine line, but frame rate does still have a visual impact on viewers.

My dream is a sine wave electronic (typically referred to as global) shutter. Bye bye time aliasing, judder, etc. If DSMC3 is capable of giving us control over the shutter characteristic, think motion mount or Tessive Time Filter without moving parts, that would be the holy grail.

Cheers - #19

 

[Phil Holland]

Once you have viewed Red footage on a proper HDR display looking at it on an SDR display is torture. There is entire world beyond 0-1. Really can't wait for 1000nit+ HDR displays to become the norm.

Big agree. I'm Dolby Vision Certified/Licensed after several years of rather painful bleeding edge HDR work. Things are settled a bit more now and I'm hoping we'll see more HDR in the future. Streaming is exploring it a lot. But after my last couple of workshops in 2019, it still seems the majority of the market hasn't worked in HDR just yet. More people will be doing it soon though.

My dream is a sine wave electronic (typically referred to as global) shutter. Bye bye time aliasing, judder, etc. If DSMC3 is capable of giving us control over the shutter characteristic, think motion mount or Tessive Time Filter without moving parts, that would be the holy grail.

That would be nice. There's lots of sensor tech out there as well as other hardware that can come into the mix in the future. At the core I think we as shooters don't want something built in that limits shutter speeds in any capacity by default, but who knows. There could be other ways.

I will say the Soft Shutter mode on the Motion Mount was/is useful in combating judder and an interesting take on motion blur. Temporal aliasing is the thing there.

I'm still doing array work and Komodo's global shutter represents something alarmingly useful in particular when dealing with larger arrays with lots of cameras unstructured, linear, and 360 work. I've been a bit quiet as of late because I'm doing a test of exactly that for a client and my brain is fried between that and philmColor related work.

 

[andrewhake]

Big agree. I'm Dolby Vision Certified/Licensed after several years of rather painful bleeding edge HDR work. Things are settled a bit more now and I'm hoping we'll see more HDR in the future. Streaming is exploring it a lot. But after my last couple of workshops in 2019, it still seems the majority of the market hasn't worked in HDR just yet. More people will be doing it soon though.

One thing that is exciting to me about it is the standards that are already in place and are being proposed are actually quite good. Metadata directly added to the file about how something was graded and on what display is amazing. So if something was graded on a crazy 3000nit Dolby display, but viewed on an 800nit LG OLED, it can easily be mapped down by the display and still look very good. Even grading something on the XDR display then outputting in HEVC and playing back on an iPhone 11 Pro, everything translates down very well. I am curious what you think the brightness standard should be? 1000nits sustained and 1600 peak is quite nice, and realistically that is probably going to be the standard, but I think the dream for me would be more like 1000nits sustained 5000nits peak eventually has the standard for a reference display someday. Or just go all out and have 10000nits be the standard. I want HDR reference displays to right on the edge of damaging my retinas haha.

I love going back to older films that have been remastered in HDR now. Watching The Dark Knight with 1600nits peak is like a whole new experience, it's like a layer of dim film has been lifted off of it. I love how you get a sense of sharpness just from the contrast alone. Each time I have seen a display with proper color and uniformity and a double in peak brightness, it just gets better and better. Atomic Blonde is another one that really has a nice HDR grade. And Greyhound is one of the nicest looking bits of HDR footage I have seen. So much detail in the shadows and lots of tasty peak brightness. I believe that was shot on DXL if I'm not mistaken and man does it look nice.

What I am really desperate for is a proper 1000nit HDR on camera monitor or something close. That is quite challenging, but it is definitely a bit frustrating when I feel like my phone has a better display with better contrast ratio, uniformity, color gamut and peak brightness than my cinema camera monitor. I want an on camera monitor that feels like I am looking through an empty picture frame.

 

[rand thompson]

Red Komodo 6k Auto Focus First Look


By
Brad Watanabe

 

[Christoffer Glans]

A friend has a Komodo and is already reporting the AF is no joke. Have to imagine it's only going to get better. I also have a strong feeling both AF and Global Shutter are going to be the defining features for RED in DSMC3. I view Komodo as a "test baby" for the much larger beasts TK in DSMC3.

Not saying that the AF is a joke, I'm saying that without a proper face-tracking feature it will not be reliable for most types of AF related work. You can't have something looking for focus in the middle of a take or while doing gimbal work. So the AF system will be unused by most people until it has software that can hold that focus onto objects that are important in the scene.
The Canon or Sony AF system in video is nothing without their face-tracking and eye-tracking component.

The AF system should not be included as a key feature need when considering buying Komodo. Only what is present in the camera at the moment is what you should focus on, not promises of tomorrow because they might not happen. We might never get a software update that enables face-tracking, because we don't know if the processor can handle that or not.

So the important thing for Red is to at least "make room" for processing power to handle such a software, or else the AF system will just be unused in most cases. The potential of AF only occurs when we can shoot scenes wide open hand-held of an actor and the focus is rock solid on their face or eye. This is the whole reason why many don't get cine cameras and instead Canon or Sony DSLRs for their video work. A Red camera with similar AF function, even basic face-tracking in comparison, would really change the game for many shooters. So, in my opinion, either go all in and do AF with face-tracking or focus on other improvements of the camera instead.

Basically, I'm assuming DSMC3 will feature one or several of these Komodo Sensors:

8K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 36mm and Vista Vision)
10K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 45mm and larger than Monstro)
12K Komodo with AF (this is exactly 54mm and basically a Hasselblad, which is what a Komodo looks like)

What lenses would you use on such a 12K camera? It's unrealistic in my opinion. Most lens manufacturers have just released FF lens lineups and there are so few cine lenses for cinema work if you go larger on sensors from FF. Large format still photography is unrealistic for cine work and medium format, which is Hasselblad and 65mm require very expensive and special case lenses.
Better to do a new sensor, Vista Vision with 12K to get 8K distribution. But in my opinion, stick with 8K VV sensor and increase low light quality, DR and framerate cap. Going larger than FF is not a good choice and leads to tons of problems for video work.

A 65mm cine camera would be a great addition and competition towards the Arri 65, but I feel that's more realistic as a special case camera like the Panavision Millenium DXL2 for work related to IMAX releases. Because of difficulty having cine lenses for a 65mm camera, there won't be any realistic normal sales of these cameras, because it can't be scaled up. Full format video is easier because it's already a format that has a lot of lenses out there and the new FF releases of cine lenses are easier to do than going larger.

It's good to not stare blindly into "bigger and more" and think that's a good idea. There has to be a balance. Full format is the perfect balance between lenses and sensor sizes in terms of video. 8K is a perfect balance for 4K releases while 10 to 12K is the perfect balance for 8K releases subsampling.
So having a full format 12K sensor, 19-20 stops of DR, global shutter, 3200 noise free and eye-tracking AF that can feed focus to cine lenses, would be the perfect camera. Aiming higher than that instead of improving other aspects of the camera body and handling is just a waste of resources for something that's a diminishing return of improvements.

Personally I've not seen any actual benefit going higher than 6-8K. Noise handling etc. doesn't just depend on resolution and subsampling. Of course I see the better quality of the Monstro 8K over Komodo, but actual benefits, in my opinion, have to do with striking a balance rather than pure maximized power. Komodo in my opinion strikes a balance. It's not perfect, but close.
An 8K VV global shutter 100 fps capable sensor with face and eye-tracking AF and noise-free 3200 ISO inside a Komodo sized camera body with low latency video monitoring and wireless audio built-in, would, in my opinion, be the perfect cinema camera.

Aim for that, nothing more nothing less and we have a winner. Improving that further would be about keeping the same specs but getting it to be fan-less, low power with whole-day battery use etc.