KOMODO....

[Jaime Vallés]

- 6K with REDCODE RAW (Compression unknown)
- Small-sized body that seems close to or smaller than a Canon R (but cube-sized)
- 4K over SDI (So, recordable to Atomos and similar)
- RF mount that enables an adapter with built-in ND filters
- Using Canon camera batteries in a hot-swap fashion
- Has some connection/connectivity to the Hydrogen (based on the price-point being phrased in conjunction with the phone. It may also mean that those who bought the Hydrogen gets a discount, so, not confirmed).
- May be used with other Red gear hinted by a picture from Soderbergh's "Let Them Talk" shoot using a 7" display with the same interface as on regular Red cameras (Could also be that he used normal Red cameras as well, so not confirmed)

Other than that, only what Jarred wrote in the first post and what has been shown through his images on Instagram. There are no big news really and Jarred mentioned no news given at IBC about the Komodo. Several of them are in field testing so whenever Jarred spills the beans we may see some footage from different people at the same time (I'm hoping for a "Let Them Talk" trailer, but I think it's too soon in post for that production).

If I missed something someone will fill it in.

Thanks so much! Wow, it sounds like a great camera!

 

[Rakesh Malik]

Thanks so much! Wow, it sounds like a great camera!

Yes, it does! Quite exciting

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

So what are your top 5 wishlist for Komodo? I'll start with mine
1) lightweight with proper balanced of center of gravity so we can balance it on gimbals easily (RED have always been too top making a little difficult to balance)
2) Advanced autofocus in par with Canon and Sony. Again making this easy for gimbals and documentaries or small crew
3) High frame rates R3D recording without cropping.
4) able to use virtually any lens type including SONY E-mount
5) Some kind of in body stabilization

 

[David Rasberry]

If you look at DR from the display side, the typical HDR 4k consumer TV is 300-350 nits peak white output. If you assume an optimistic 1 nit screen black level, including ambient room lighting, you get a real DR of about 8 stops. A 2000 nit display will get you to 11 stops if it can maintain the same black level with backlight manipulation, but most native panel contrast ratios without the HDR hocus pocus are still around 1000:1. OLED being the exception.
For home entertainment viewing we have gained three to five stops over a typical REC709 calibrated display at best.
At least as far as the new “HDR” 4k content from Netflix series I see a lot more grossly under exposed flat lifeless mud, as Hrvoje has pointed out, than anything shot that remotely resembles the vibrant depth of true HDR imagery.

 

[jordan levy]

So what are your top 5 wishlist for Komodo? I'll start with mine
1) lightweight with proper balanced of center of gravity so we can balance it on gimbals easily (RED have always been too top making a little difficult to balance)
2) Advanced autofocus in par with Canon and Sony. Again making this easy for gimbals and documentaries or small crew
3) High frame rates R3D recording without cropping.
4) able to use virtually any lens type including SONY E-mount
5) Some kind of in body stabilization

and literally none of that is possible. maybe no. 1
the expectations are so unreasonable and this thread is so convoluted, its painful to try to read, but yet i keep torturing myself in my down time.

the only hope is that is does some sort of internal r3d, most likely limited to 8:1 and maybe 30fps, but im thinking the atmos connection is what will give you better compression and higher frame rates, hopefully 60fps. every red crops with high frame rates. i just hope it doesnt crop past s35 if it does high frame rates at all, im thinking external recording for that.

canon cant even get to sony's AF perfection, RED mostly likely will have none, as it does now.

it's RF mount, already established, which means no Sony E-mount possible.

it for sure wont have in body stabilization.

the camera you are looking for is the new sony FX9, which will be the perfect doc and sports camera, and one man bad situations.

Komodo is most likely a little less specs then a Raven as far as compressions and frame rates, but a small light weight rig-gable body, probably great for gimbals and stage rigs.

 

[Phil Holland]

canon cant even get to sony's AF perfection

The AF modes are very impressive, but if you don't see both systems hunting while they are tracking you're not watching close enough. It's even more noticeable on lenses that breath more.

Again, I'm impressed by the tech and certainly see where it's empowering, but every clips I've seen has some hunting and wiggle while grabbing the subject across time and space. Where I have seen it work well so far is fairly subtle movements.

I think this gen and next gen of their AF developments will go even further through firmware updates and likely some more new tech.

But I can't describe it as perfection. That's crazy. Impressive yes! Perfection, no.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

The AF modes are very impressive, but if you don't see both systems hunting while they are tracking you're not watching close enough. It's even more noticeable on lenses that breath more.

Again, I'm impressed by the tech and certainly see where it's empowering, but every clips I've seen has some hunting and wiggle while grabbing the subject across time and space. Where I have seen it work well so far is fairly subtle movements.

I think this gen and next gen of their AF developments will go even further through firmware updates and likely some more new tech.

But I can't describe it as perfection. That's crazy. Impressive yes! Perfection, no.

I was mainly referring to subtle slow movement for autofocus like push-ins or walking backward on a gimbal. Yes it's not perfect on the Sony but it gets you there 95% of the time and while it does a little bit of hunting on some of those shots you can't even tell unless you are looking really closely at every frame. Again not talking Hollywood movies.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

and literally none of that is possible. maybe no. 1
the expectations are so unreasonable and this thread is so convoluted, its painful to try to read, but yet i keep torturing myself in my down time.

the only hope is that is does some sort of internal r3d, most likely limited to 8:1 and maybe 30fps, but im thinking the atmos connection is what will give you better compression and higher frame rates, hopefully 60fps. every red crops with high frame rates. i just hope it doesnt crop past s35 if it does high frame rates at all, im thinking external recording for that.

canon cant even get to sony's AF perfection, RED mostly likely will have none, as it does now.

it's RF mount, already established, which means no Sony E-mount possible.

it for sure wont have in body stabilization.

the camera you are looking for is the new sony FX9, which will be the perfect doc and sports camera, and one man bad situations.

Komodo is most likely a little less specs then a Raven as far as compressions and frame rates, but a small light weight rig-gable body, probably great for gimbals and stage rigs.

Then what exactly will Komodo bring to the table...I mean at this point it sounds like old technology put into a smaller body and that's all....

 

[Phil Holland]

Then what exactly will Komodo bring to the table...I mean at this point it sounds like old technology put into a smaller body and that's all....

We know exactly zip about what Komodo actually is or what it can do. We know how to power it, we know what media it takes, we've seen a few ports including 6G or 12G-SDI for 4K Out, we know it's general size, we know it's lens mount, we have an approximate price point.

And these are the testing bed cameras. Even what we know might not be known.

This is still a waiting game for actual specs in the face of the teases.

There's already a host of features that make it unique from what we've seen. It's the first likely high quality designed-for-motion with Canon RF Mount, which I think has a lot of exciting potential. It's also the first very "out of the box" style camera RED has ever made. Meaning it appears all this thing needs is media, a lens, and a monitor to roll.

In this general form factor and likely relative price point, Komodo is going to probably pack a lot of bang for the buck. We just know the real stuff we want to know yet.

RED's always teased before release, rarely ever a shocker of suddenly a new camera showing up, but often the shockers come in the form of the whole package.

I have a good imagination as well as some educated guesses, I kinda see where it fits. The specs have to be there. The biggest questions now are mostly surrounding monitoring, camera control, and actual sensor as well as frame rate specs. Some will be okay if it hits 6K 30p, some will be okay if it hits 6K 60p. But what more could be in there? Like, if it can provide some form of RAW at 30p and 60p internally. What about other codecs?

No matter what the camera will always live or die on it's specs and if the sensor captivates filmmakers. In this case the form factor plays a big role in what is captivating.

 

[jordan levy]

The AF modes are very impressive, but if you don't see both systems hunting while they are tracking you're not watching close enough. It's even more noticeable on lenses that breath more.

Again, I'm impressed by the tech and certainly see where it's empowering, but every clips I've seen has some hunting and wiggle while grabbing the subject across time and space. Where I have seen it work well so far is fairly subtle movements.

I think this gen and next gen of their AF developments will go even further through firmware updates and likely some more new tech.

But I can't describe it as perfection. That's crazy. Impressive yes! Perfection, no.

it really depends on the lens, ive returned some lenses that had disappointing results, plus there are a few sub settings with in the AF, ive done a few jobs with the kit lens where i was astonished on the accuracy, couldnt find an out of focus or buzzed frame in a dance video i did bringing people from 30ft away to minimum focus. then id rent an expensive prime that would hunt. ive really found it pretty amazing on gimbal shots and especially for interviews when on a 5d, a little movement and theyd be out. but also you have to take reasonable precautions, like lighting to at least a 4-5.6. ive also have done some broll for national spots with surfing and skating that it was so on point that there is no way a focus puller could of caught those moments. my point was that no one can come near sony, not even canon, so dont expect Komodo to do the same, or even close.

 

[jordan levy]

Then what exactly will Komodo bring to the table...I mean at this point it sounds like old technology put into a smaller body and that's all....

like phil said, its about a compact size, cheaper media, smaller batteries. spec wise to think it's going to out do current red cameras is just crazy. i think the one spec that will make it unique will be a 4k sdi output.

 

[Nick Morrison]

like phil said, its about a compact size, cheaper media, smaller batteries. spec wise to think it's going to out do current red cameras is just crazy. i think the one spec that will make it unique will be a 4k sdi output.

Exactly.

The lowlight won't be as good as Gemini or Monstro.

It won't have the DR of these.

It won't have the offspeed.

If it can match Dragon 6K at 23.98 and shoot 800 ISO clean, I'm happy.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Then what exactly will Komodo bring to the table...I mean at this point it sounds like old technology put into a smaller body and that's all....

If Komodo is a Dragon 6K (like the weapon Dragon 6K MG) in a smaller body and the same specs, that would kill the competition ten-fold. Even if it's capped in FF to 50 Fps maximum, it still will. The Dragon 6K sensor with Redcode RAW at 6:1 is miles ahead of BRAW 3:1 in their current cameras. Auto-focus features, in-camera stabilization and such are irrelevant if you get the the same image fidelity as a Dragon 6K.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

No Komodo news at IBC, Komodo still is deep in it's public and private testing phase

Public and Private testing phase is the RED quote of the decade

 

[Nick Morrison]

If Komodo is a Dragon 6K (like the weapon Dragon 6K MG) in a smaller body and the same specs, that would kill the competition ten-fold. Even if it's capped in FF to 50 Fps maximum, it still will. The Dragon 6K sensor with Redcode RAW at 6:1 is miles ahead of BRAW 3:1 in their current cameras. Auto-focus features, in-camera stabilization and such are irrelevant if you get the the same image fidelity as a Dragon 6K.

Exactly.

Even if its capped at 30fps FF, and 50fps 5K/S35, if its 6K Dragon good and can shoot 5:1 compression, we're talking feature film good.

Good enough for me.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

it really depends on the lens, ive returned some lenses that had disappointing results, plus there are a few sub settings with in the AF, ive done a few jobs with the kit lens where i was astonished on the accuracy, couldnt find an out of focus or buzzed frame in a dance video i did bringing people from 30ft away to minimum focus. then id rent an expensive prime that would hunt. ive really found it pretty amazing on gimbal shots and especially for interviews when on a 5d, a little movement and theyd be out. but also you have to take reasonable precautions, like lighting to at least a 4-5.6. ive also have done some broll for national spots with surfing and skating that it was so on point that there is no way a focus puller could of caught those moments. my point was that no one can come near sony, not even canon, so dont expect Komodo to do the same, or even close.

Agree...the autofocus has been amazing on Sony and has really helped gimbal work. That's why I wish the Komodo to have this feature along with the RED imagery....then we would have a RED camera for gimbals that satisfy both full crew with focus puller or smaller crews that could rely on autofocus for some shots...

 

[jordan levy]

Agree...the autofocus has been amazing on Sony and has really helped gimbal work. That's why I wish the Komodo to have this feature along with the RED imagery....then we would have a RED camera for gimbals that satisfy both full crew with focus puller or smaller crews that could rely on autofocus for some shots...

it's Damn good, and listen, I made my living from being a focus puller for some of the biggest ASC cinematographers in the business, i was the first one to balk at using autofocus professionally, I even complain about AC's using wireless, still, i cant take over if im doing something artistic, they are like 15ft from me when they used to be next to me. (i yell more) we went through light rangers and cine tape and all sorts of tools in the day to get some almost impossible shots.

Not until I had just got my A7III for my new scout camera, got rid of the big 5D finally and i was doing some rehearsals for a dance shoot on my scout camera just to find out what camera angles should be as it was to be a one shot video. i would get back the tests and um, it was focusing for me and pretty well. I then dove into youtube tutorials to see what the best settings were and how accurate it was, especially facial tracking, starting doing tests, and it was so dead on i would up talking the band into buying me a ronin S and i shot the video on the A7. since then I've pretty much done every personal "friend" project on the A7 and i have never even thought about focus, it's just there. right before i sold my raven i had to do a video for a friend and i said, what hell, now that i know Davinici so well too, ill shoot this on the raven and see how it compares. it came down to both images been fine, i actually found the sony easier to grade, while the red footage definitely had more latitude, but what really made the difference was no matter how hard i tried to punch in, dial in focus for every shot, have the actors freeze, there was still a small percentage of shots that were slightly out. So, that's when i became and advocate, it's when it's became this good. and i dont use it all the time, depends on the shot obviously, i sometimes use it to set up the scene and sometimes ill use the quick button to disable AF and pull the rest in myself, mainly for racks.

I would still love to own something with a little better depth in resolution, so hoping for the 10 bit version, but if i was to shoot a doc again, i would be renting the new sony fx9. but i still have hopes for Komodo, i just couldnt deal with the BM pocket, i love my OG pocket and still have it a use it, but the new one has no excuse, its big, its weird, it need tons of things to be rigged off it to make it work, so i sold mine. its too bad because the image was nice and what i love about a personal camera is the ease of use, ease of shooting, ease of post, make it easy.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

it's Damn good, and listen, I made my living from being a focus puller for some of the biggest ASC cinematographers in the business, i was the first one to balk at using autofocus professionally, I even complain about AC's using wireless, still, i cant take over if im doing something artistic, they are like 15ft from me when they used to be next to me. (i yell more) we went through light rangers and cine tape and all sorts of tools in the day to get some almost impossible shots.

Not until I had just got my A7III for my new scout camera, got rid of the big 5D finally and i was doing some rehearsals for a dance shoot on my scout camera just to find out what camera angles should be as it was to be a one shot video. i would get back the tests and um, it was focusing for me and pretty well. I then dove into youtube tutorials to see what the best settings were and how accurate it was, especially facial tracking, starting doing tests, and it was so dead on i would up talking the band into buying me a ronin S and i shot the video on the A7. since then I've pretty much done every personal "friend" project on the A7 and i have never even thought about focus, it's just there. right before i sold my raven i had to do a video for a friend and i said, what hell, now that i know Davinici so well too, ill shoot this on the raven and see how it compares. it came down to both images been fine, i actually found the sony easier to grade, while the red footage definitely had more latitude, but what really made the difference was no matter how hard i tried to punch in, dial in focus for every shot, have the actors freeze, there was still a small percentage of shots that were slightly out. So, that's when i became and advocate, it's when it's became this good. and i dont use it all the time, depends on the shot obviously, i sometimes use it to set up the scene and sometimes ill use the quick button to disable AF and pull the rest in myself, mainly for racks.

I would still love to own something with a little better depth in resolution, so hoping for the 10 bit version, but if i was to shoot a doc again, i would be renting the new sony fx9. but i still have hopes for Komodo, i just couldnt deal with the BM pocket, i love my OG pocket and still have it a use it, but the new one has no excuse, its big, its weird, it need tons of things to be rigged off it to make it work, so i sold mine. its too bad because the image was nice and what i love about a personal camera is the ease of use, ease of shooting, ease of post, make it easy.

Dude...I am with you 100%. If Sony comes out with a 10bit version of their A7 series then it will be very hard for us to keep justifying keeping 3 RED Epic W...
Again I'm really hoping Komodo will compete with Sony features...but like you I'm doubtful.

 

[Misha Engel]

We have the exact assessment.

I'll put it like this...

If we take Arri's approach to quantifying DR out of a cinema camera, which is more in the context of cinematographic usability, rather than purely mathematical/data centric approach used by others...

16.

8
Mid gray
8

Enough.

8 below is already possible. Noise performance can be better though.
8 above...let's see who gets there first.

My bet is Panasonic https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2018/02/en180214-2/en180214-2.html

8K high-resolution (36M pixels), 60fps framerate, 450k high-saturation electrons

 

[Phil Holland]

It gets complicated due to the two different log spaces of Log-C and Log3G10 and considering each manufacturer's standard Rec.709 Ouput, but.....

If you want 8 Stops above 18% Gray, not counting the gap between the last retained stop and full RGB Clip

Give ISO 1600 a try on ARRI LF.

Give ISO 1600 or 3200 on RED Monstro depending on OLPF.

As for who has Usable 8 Stops below that, well..... I've already shown what that means and it will mostly has the cleanest image at the end of the day.

Top ISO 1600, ARRI LF. Bottom RED Monstro ISO 3200. Both scaled down to 2K from the full frame here from maximum 4.5K and 8K resolution respectively.

That's the Xyla, which is the quickest way for me to share this information. I also have non-emissive reflected light patches if needed. At that point I'm charging you though But they do match the Xyla either way in measurement.