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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

KOMODO....

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Here's what I think is really needed for Komodo to beat the competition and also be a professional choice, but still not be way over what is achievable.

- Minimum sensor size s35mm
- Minimum 14 stops of DR
- 6K FF at 50 fps (Similar to BlackMagic's Pocket 6K)
- 6K UHD at 60 fps (Similar to the Pocket 6K)
- Compression at least at 6:1 R3D at 24/25 fps 6K FF (Pocket 6K has 3:1 BRAW 6K)
- Dual-ISO 800 and 3200 (Pocket 6K has it)
- Genlock timecode (pretty basic)
- Scratch sound mic (think it's already on the Komodo)
- Dual CFast (instant backup is a basic feature on DSLRs now and would render backups on set irrelevant)
- IPP2

Most of these match up with the pocket 6K, but on top of this, why the price gets higher ($6000) than the Pocket 6K ($2500) is the one stop more DR, Genlock, Dual CFast and reliability/built quality of Red's cameras.
With the current competition, this list should not really be in the realm of wishful thinking. If you get most of all of this on the Pocket 6K for less than half the price of the Komodo, then that is the bottom line here.
 
Misha Engel said:
I think you can forget about the Dual CFast.
The pocket also has Q0 for compression.
For more info on BRAW https://patents.google.com/patent/US20180367775A1/en?assignee=blackmagic+design&oq=blackmagic+design&sort=new
Click to expand...

Yeah but it's not a "real" log gamma curve. (When you compare BMD Film Log Curve to Arri's, RED's, Canon's [which is, admit it Canon : an Arri rip off :p] and Sony's it's not as flat and therefore has not the same lattitude)
I'm not saying it's not a great product, just that it's different. ;)


Anyone have seen the short film shot on the new S1H from Panasonic ?
Just came out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK8NvJ9pdKc

It looks pretty good (well, for a YouTube compressed 4K video). Really eager to have some news about KOMODO now ! Come on !
 
Christoffer Glans said:
Here's what I think is really needed for Komodo to beat the competition and also be a professional choice, but still not be way over what is achievable.

- Minimum 14 stops of DR
Click to expand...

Based on how RED measures dynamic range I think you should ask for at least 15-16:001_tongue:
I'm pretty sure under RED's criteria, the Pocket 4k has almost 14 stops
 
Bastien Tribalat said:
Yeah but it's not a "real" log gamma curve. (When you compare BMD Film Log Curve to Arri's, RED's, Canon's [which is, admit it Canon : an Arri rip off :p] and Sony's it's not as flat and therefore has not the same lattitude)
I'm not saying it's not a great product, just that it's different. ;)


Anyone have seen the short film shot on the new S1H from Panasonic ?
Just came out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK8NvJ9pdKc

It looks pretty good (well, for a YouTube compressed 4K video). Really eager to have some news about KOMODO now ! Come on !
Click to expand...

Yeah, the compression and their problematic gamma export on that file is pretty bad, but the rest looks promising.


Mathias Erichsen said:
So... Panasonic has just shown their S1H specs.
Can we please get all the Komodo specs and release date :)
Click to expand...

Looks promising, no internal RAW though, BM has the Panasonic beat in that area. Going to be interesting what Komodo delivers.
 
Bastien Tribalat said:
Yeah but it's not a "real" log gamma curve. (When you compare BMD Film Log Curve to Arri's, RED's, Canon's [which is, admit it Canon : an Arri rip off :p] and Sony's it's not as flat and therefore has not the same lattitude)
I'm not saying it's not a great product, just that it's different. ;)


Anyone have seen the short film shot on the new S1H from Panasonic ?
Just came out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK8NvJ9pdKc

It looks pretty good (well, for a YouTube compressed 4K video). Really eager to have some news about KOMODO now ! Come on !
Click to expand...

It looks fantastic! Well, there's maybe two shots in there that you can use to see how good the camera is, but those couple shots are really nice! The rest of it, I mean, any camera can shoot black shadows with blurry blobs. And any camera will look good when the dynamic range of the scene is like two stops. Still, it looks more like a Red than the EOS R or the a7III. Might be the perfect back-up/B-Cam...
 
jordan levy said:
except with the Raven or SW you most likely will be able to do higher frame rates with less sensor cropping, its expandable for all dsmc2 accessories so that you can use it professionally in different situations. The expectations for this camera seem a bit ridiculous, i highly doubt it will have anamorphic capability, go above 60fps, probably limited compression(even the Raven's is limited) and probably be a cropped sensor if you want to shoot 4k, and 6k i bet fps are limited to 30fps. so like helium the sensor might get very small for any higher speed stuff. anyway, expectation is the root of unhappiness, so dont expect a lot and youll be fine. yes, komodo might wind up a tad bit cheaper, but have it's limitations im sure.
Click to expand...

I’m hoping for 120fps @ 2k crop that matches S16/1” sensor size of my Bolex. The D16 only shoots 24/25fps, so I’ll gladly take anything that comes above that. Would love to be able to use my Angenieux 16mm zooms on it.
 
I would love it if Red would include a monochrome linear raw viewing mode on Komodo. It is my favorite feature for checking exposure on the D16. You can see exactly where highlights clip right down to the pixel. Makes it easy to ETTR with absolutely precise control over what is clipped and what isn’t. The D16 provides gamma adjustment between 1 and 2.2, but for this function, closer to linear is easier to judge.
 
David Rasberry said:
I would love it if Red would include a monochrome linear raw viewing mode on Komodo. It is my favorite feature for checking exposure on the D16. You can see exactly where highlights clip right down to the pixel. Makes it easy to ETTR with absolutely precise control over what is clipped and what isn’t. The D16 provides gamma adjustment between 1 and 2.2, but for this function, closer to linear is easier to judge.
Click to expand...

There's something on the RED that's called Gioscope that's similar but waaaaayyyyyyyy better it's such a great tool. Look it up there are some videos out there.
 
Looking forward to the Komodo, very exciting.
I just really hope that X1.5 or better yet a customizable value will be added to the anamorphic modes.
 
I'm ready for the storm...!!!
giphy.gif
 
Bastien Tribalat said:
Yeah but it's not a "real" log gamma curve. (When you compare BMD Film Log Curve to Arri's, RED's, Canon's [which is, admit it Canon : an Arri rip off :p] and Sony's it's not as flat and therefore has not the same lattitude)
I'm not saying it's not a great product, just that it's different. ;)


Anyone have seen the short film shot on the new S1H from Panasonic ?
Just came out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK8NvJ9pdKc

It looks pretty good (well, for a YouTube compressed 4K video). Really eager to have some news about KOMODO now ! Come on !
Click to expand...

Try BRAW Q0 from the UMP G2 or cDNG from the UMP G1 (with their dual 11 bit ADC's and dual column amplifier's).
The pockets have 12 bit sensors, not much to log there.
 
Misha Engel said:
Try BRAW Q0 from the UMP G2 or cDNG from the UMP G1 (with their dual 11 bit ADC's and dual column amplifier's).
The pockets have 12 bit sensors, not much to log there.
Click to expand...
Seems BRAW is limited to 12 bit anyway. Plus, it seems there's de-mosaic in-camera process that impose that limit. It's beyond my technical skills and it doesn't change the fact that BMD Log is not as flat and therefore has not as much lattitude than others. Even Canon RAW Light, which is also 12 bit (or 10 bit even beyond 30p on C200) has a more usable log gamma curve.

But hey at the end of the day none of this matters because the DP is supposed to do his work properly and light a scene correctly. (and I like the images coming from URSA Mini Pro G2 and Pocket 4K so far but I'm just saying that it's not as "good" what RED, Sony, Canon, Arri and Panasonic offer and it shoudn't be : those cameras are hell cheap and come with DaVinci Resolve. It's an AWESOME package for low budget projects and filmmakers, students and beginners. BUT it's not as "good" as an Alexa Mini LF 10 times less money)
 
Bastien Tribalat said:
But hey at the end of the day none of this matters because the DP is supposed to do his work properly and light a scene correctly. (and I like the images coming from URSA Mini Pro G2 and Pocket 4K so far but I'm just saying that it's not as "good" what RED, Sony, Canon, Arri and Panasonic offer and it shoudn't be : those cameras are hell cheap and come with DaVinci Resolve. It's an AWESOME package for low budget projects and filmmakers, students and beginners. BUT it's not as "good" as an Alexa Mini LF 10 times less money)
Click to expand...

I would also add that far too many aren't good enough cinematographers to be able to utilize everything on a Red or Arri and far too many have a Red's or Arri's with far more capabilities than they make use of in their work.

If you own a system, you learn the system and you learn how to maximize its capabilities. I rarely see people actually using the DR correctly and I see people use a slap-on LUT on LOG curves when that's supposed to be for careful and precise grading. It's the same thinking with the decision to choose LOG on a high compressed DSLR and then just crush it in post, while using a good curve baseline in-camera will give much better results than LOG on such high compressed files.

People want more more more and get more than they need and then complain that they don't have more than they got. A key thing about Komodo, Pocket and whatever, is that they might not be as powerful as higher systems like Helium, Gemini and Monstro, but they can deliver FF, 6K/8K, RAW and reasonable framerates for a fraction of the price. Of course, there are some drawbacks, but most of the time not enough to render the camera irrelevant as a prime choice for most professionals.

What is demanded and should be demanded is a certain look, at least 13-14 stops, at least s35mm, at least some kind of compressed RAW, at least some level of high framerate capabilities at full frame. Otherwise, we can shoot with something already existing out there. I've played around with some new BM 6K files and I have no problem getting them to a cinematic release standard. If Red release the Komodo as a Pocket 6K killer, with 16 bit R3D, same framerate options, 14 stops of DR and s35mm, coupled with that RF mount, it's gonna be a killer. I'm just a bit worried that they worry too much about disrupting their own lineup and cap the capabilities of the camera, or that they didn't expect the Pocket 6K to come out and didn't expect it to have a $2500 price-point, meaning they just have to move along with something subpar the Pocket 6K at double the price. Maybe scrambling together some improvements to match the competition before revealing the specs.

I just hope it beats the Pocket 6K, I really want to stay in Red's infrastructure, to be able to match with other Red cameras as a second unit/gimbal unit.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I would also add that far too many aren't good enough cinematographers to be able to utilize everything on a Red or Arri and far too many have a Red's or Arri's with far more capabilities than they make use of in their work.

If you own a system, you learn the system and you learn how to maximize its capabilities. I rarely see people actually using the DR correctly and I see people use a slap-on LUT on LOG curves when that's supposed to be for careful and precise grading. It's the same thinking with the decision to choose LOG on a high compressed DSLR and then just crush it in post, while using a good curve baseline in-camera will give much better results than LOG on such high compressed files.

People want more more more and get more than they need and then complain that they don't have more than they got. A key thing about Komodo, Pocket and whatever, is that they might not be as powerful as higher systems like Helium, Gemini and Monstro, but they can deliver FF, 6K/8K, RAW and reasonable framerates for a fraction of the price. Of course, there are some drawbacks, but most of the time not enough to render the camera irrelevant as a prime choice for most professionals.

What is demanded and should be demanded is a certain look, at least 13-14 stops, at least s35mm, at least some kind of compressed RAW, at least some level of high framerate capabilities at full frame. Otherwise, we can shoot with something already existing out there. I've played around with some new BM 6K files and I have no problem getting them to a cinematic release standard. If Red release the Komodo as a Pocket 6K killer, with 16 bit R3D, same framerate options, 14 stops of DR and s35mm, coupled with that RF mount, it's gonna be a killer. I'm just a bit worried that they worry too much about disrupting their own lineup and cap the capabilities of the camera, or that they didn't expect the Pocket 6K to come out and didn't expect it to have a $2500 price-point, meaning they just have to move along with something subpar the Pocket 6K at double the price. Maybe scrambling together some improvements to match the competition before revealing the specs.

I just hope it beats the Pocket 6K, I really want to stay in Red's infrastructure, to be able to match with other Red cameras as a second unit/gimbal unit.
Click to expand...

I totally agree.
I work on a show that is still shot on a couple C300s ! (with Canon Cine Zooms)
That's what they need, that what they're comfortable using. Why would they bother with buying anything else ?
 
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