KOMODO....

[Jeffrey Loewe]

If this thing has 4K 120 I'm buying immediately.

 

[Gregory Karydis]

Without the codec stuff known, but I think it's going to go one of two directions with likely a predictable mezzanine codec(s) involved too, that would likely be aiming around a minimum of 4K @ 60fps perhaps? That's about 1/2 the frame rate of any current DSMC2 camera at the same resolution. In terms of estimated pricing and all that, that's painting a bit of clearer picture in my mind. Like I have no idea what this sensor is or even how it works, but if this is the case we might be looking at like 6K WS around 48-50 fps? That's a minimum guess, maybe 6K FF at about 30-40fps max?

That is my exact chain of thought!

Same here, sharing my speculations is something I try to steer clear of at all costs.

I should head over to RSH Kool-Aid man-style, bust through a wall, and figure this all out.

Make sure you've got someone recording the entire scene to post a reaction video!!!

And yes.. they are hot swappable. And they last for hours and hours and hours...

:001_tt1: :emote_happyhappy:

 

[Scott Balkum]

And yes.. they are hot swappable. And they last for hours and hours and hours...

BOOM!

 

[Brandon Veen]

Now that I've re-looked at the photos, I'm beginning to think in the shot with the R>EF VND adapter that's actually the release button for the CFast 2.0 media slot, which I believe will be an enclosed rather than exposed situation. This would also likely make sense considering where the vents are and it appears there's a heat sink in there.

The first CFast Tease shot definitely seems to back that up. I do wonder if for space savings we're not looking at a flap that opens to 90 degrees DSLR style and has the card inserted perpendicular, but instead something that just goes out say 15-30 degrees and has the CFast card inserted nearly parallel with the camera body. It's hard to say if that has the 36.4mm of clearance for that to be viable.

On a wider note, it's definitely easy to see how this isn't meant to be a replacement camera. Unless they're going with a more traditional on-camera control screen and button approach on the top, ala Z-Cam or the deceased Fran 8K (lets hope it doesn't require a mouse), it looks like control may end up being primarily done externally. There's a lot of ways to speculate exactly how, but I think I'll keep my speculation to the EXT port either being something like USB-C or Ethernet to keep it easy to connect to things.

If I had one request, more than on-body control, it'd be that I hope they sneak in a single power AUX-out for a wireless transmitter for situations when you need to have the body as small as possible.

 

[Uday Bhaskar Karra]

Am curious about weather sealing of this camera... if its not great, then a gates housing option.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

I was just wondering about the ATOMOS partnership. That would be great to be able to use the Shinobi instead of a RED Monitor touch screen for work in the outdoors.

Yes, please something bright! My hydrogen is to week outside.

 

[Phil Holland]

Heh. Some funny conversations I'm having online right now are fun.

I think there's actually a whole lot going on here and even more we don't know about outside of the trickle teases Jarred's dropping.

Pricing and positioning in the market, I'm feeling more and more like Komodo exists somewhere in the ether-space between BMD P6K/Kinefinity/Canon C Series, likely noted in the specs as well when we figure out the rest of the story.

To circle this back to the Hydrogen peeps, this Komodo camera is ending up being a lot more than the module concept was going to yield, especially in practical filming terms. I also was excited about the module form factor, but I use cameras for a living and see where some issues might have come into play in form and function. As of now, we've got a neato short flange mount that's easy to adapt to with lots of new glass coming too, fairly inexpensive media in a large variety of capacities, and inexpensive battery solutions that come in a whole bunch of different sizes. If Jarred is saying this thing can run for hours on a few good sized BPs, this camera already is being put into a realm that RED hasn't been in before. Also, RED didn't cheap out here. This thing is a rugged tool, that Lemo and SDI are really, really big deals when it comes to real world use and some of the weirder worlds a camera like this can end up in. EXT is some sort of external control port for sure and that's going to unlock a bunch of potential too.

With the pricing hint we got in the first post of <$5K for Hydrogen owners, this might very well be the long touted "6K for $6K" sort of concept, though who knows, it could be $6,199, $6,999 or whatever.


There's a bunch of stuff running in my head here because this is a new form factor and new body type. It's something RED could even build on later down the line if things go well and tech advances. Mini Digital Cinema, Micro Digital Cinema, mDSMC, I don't know what it will be called really.

People have been asking me when this thing is coming out, Jarred is saying this year near the end of the year. I do know National Reptile Day is October 21st, but that's an optimistic timeline in my mind. Who knows.

I'll spin my speculation wheel one more time for fun. I don't think anything is accidental here, the more I stare into the void of that mount I think about Komodo Dragon, in the RED world of Dragon and Monstro that normally means a 5 micron pixel pitch. Whatever this new sensor is could be built on that concept and that's a pixel size I can really get behind, though I have no real idea how the hell they got this thing to such a compact form factor. And if that is the case, this makes it a really useful B-Cam to Monstro and Dragon shoots where you want to truly match not only the format size, but also the resolution. And likely also pairs well with Gemini and Helium if the general format logic is kept the same.

My imagination is painting a fairly sensible picture of a camera that fits within the ecosystem to compliment the bigger beasts found in the world of DSMC2 and actually be super useful to "us" while also likely being a really nice entry point into the RED world of cameras for people who can't jump up to the big cams just yet.

If I'm dead on about the frame rates expected, more or less we're looking at a camera of about 1/2 the price of say a Dragon-X with about 1/2 the frame rate performance. And there's a long list of things we don't know for sure as of yet.

I guess my pressing questions right now really are just frame rates, monitoring, and how I adapt it up from a lens height perspective to put 15mm/19 rails on it for larger lenses. Maybe when the camera bodies are this light, you stop mounting from the camera and start mounting from the lens!

An adapter plate for V/gold mount that locks in those battery slots could also be rad, unless there is also magically D-tap on the top of this thing to power a follow focus, and/or a wireless transmitter.

Would also be curious if there is a matrix of recommended shooting media. Kind of the downside of non proprietary media, and there are plenty of horror stories from the DIT community regarding the Alexa Mini and C-Fast failures.

Yep, some sort of riser would be neato, I equally see that as an opportunity for something like an audio module or whatever. #inBeforeWoodenCameraDoesIt But yeah, audio and expanding audio capabilities will be ideal outside of that 3.5mm jack. This is the sort of body form factor that Sound Devices is all about with you just mounted the camera to the recorder then to the tripod. Might be worth making a single 4"x whatever stereo phantom soludion w/ SD card or whatever.

Good idea about the V-Mount adapter.

Yep, opening up this to the wild west of the media-scape is gonna be tricky. I'm betting they'll have recommended cards or something by the time launch happens. I think it's safe to say anybody who is making "the good CFast 2.0 media" is likely ideal.

On a wider note, it's definitely easy to see how this isn't meant to be a replacement camera. Unless they're going with a more traditional on-camera control screen and button approach on the top, ala Z-Cam or the deceased Fran 8K (lets hope it doesn't require a mouse), it looks like control may end up being primarily done externally. There's a lot of ways to speculate exactly how, but I think I'll keep my speculation to the EXT port either being something like USB-C or Ethernet to keep it easy to connect to things.

If I had one request, more than on-body control, it'd be that I hope they sneak in a single power AUX-out for a wireless transmitter for situations when you need to have the body as small as possible.

USB-C would be useful, but I suspect it will end up being some sort of cable that can lock into place without slipping out, but that's all up in the air. The rest of the stuff seems to be build to not pop out.

D-Tap or AUX power, I'm betting not on the body. This thing is likely a really delicate power ecosystem to even do what it is doing and drawing out from the camera brain I think would be not ideal given the hardware. More likely battery pass through or whatever for accessories, echoing Zack's good idea for a V-Mount/G-Mount adapter.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

I wonder where all buttoms are on the Komodo. Im a fan of tactile feedback. I hope to not use a touchscreen for the common things. Is there an sidehandle for it?

 

[Brandon Veen]

D-Tap or AUX power, I'm betting not on the body. This thing is likely a really delicate power ecosystem to even do what it is doing and drawing out from the camera brain I think would be not ideal given the hardware. More likely battery pass through or whatever for accessories, echoing Zack's good idea for a V-Mount/G-Mount adapter.

That makes a lot of sense.

I suppose the other thing too is for situations where you need it to be as lightweight as possible (gimbal/aerial use), your accessories really could just be powered by the gimbal.
I know the Movi Pro starts to have issues with powering a RED, wireless transmitter, and follow focus all at once, but really if you have a battery or two on the camera (which the form factor and weight would allow for), there's a bit more leeway there for tapping into those accessories.

 

[Tom Sefton]

Can this camera be externally synced and gen-locked @Jarred??

 

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

we haven't seen the top yet but I really really really wish that it has DSMC2 LCD monitor port ontop. if thats the case this will be my b-cam when doing interviews. perfect on motorised slider .

 

[Billy Jim]

Neither are we... and we tested them all. The Canon's are actually pretty incredible. High pull amps , the right voltage so you don't loose efficiency with up-converting and very consistent.

And yes.. they are hot swappable. And they last for hours and hours and hours...

Jarred, great choices so far with Canon RF-mount in the front and Canon BP-mounts in the rear....makes me wonder if Canon sensor is sandwiched in-between, allowing for DPAF when needed.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Can this camera be externally synced and gen-locked @Jarred??

Yes, that’s a pretty basic need for any camera above just consumer grade. It needs to be in there, with a better internal clock battery than DSMC2!

 

[Misha Engel]

Would also be curious if there is a matrix of recommended shooting media. Kind of the downside of non proprietary media, and there are plenty of horror stories from the DIT community regarding the Alexa Mini and C-Fast failures.

These are the best in the world that are available to mortals https://www.angelbird.com/prod/av-pro-cf-1350/?category=79

 

[Andreas Gotfredsen]

Can this camera be externally synced and gen-locked @Jarred??

I hope that's what the EXT is for . Maybe a breakout cable with genlock and timecode

 

[Ty Maier]

We have some Angelbird media and it’s just the best. Their CFast 2.0 offerings are also the most affordable, so a double win.

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

Raise your hand if you were considering a mid-range RED (Scarlet W in my case) and are now waiting to see if Komodo would be a better fit for less money . :hurray::hurray:

 

[Paramon Ivanovich]

I wonder where all buttoms are on the Komodo. Im a fan of tactile feedback. I hope to not use a touchscreen for the common things. Is there an sidehandle for it?

i guess that's what Hydrogen is for

 

[jordan levy]

Heh. Some funny conversations I'm having online right now are fun.

I think there's actually a whole lot going on here and even more we don't know about outside of the trickle teases Jarred's dropping.

Pricing and positioning in the market, I'm feeling more and more like Komodo exists somewhere in the ether-space between BMD P6K/Kinefinity/Canon C Series, likely noted in the specs as well when we figure out the rest of the story.

To circle this back to the Hydrogen peeps, this Komodo camera is ending up being a lot more than the module concept was going to yield, especially in practical filming terms. I also was excited about the module form factor, but I use cameras for a living and see where some issues might have come into play in form and function. As of now, we've got a neato short flange mount that's easy to adapt to with lots of new glass coming too, fairly inexpensive media in a large variety of capacities, and inexpensive battery solutions that come in a whole bunch of different sizes. If Jarred is saying this thing can run for hours on a few good sized BPs, this camera already is being put into a realm that RED hasn't been in before. Also, RED didn't cheap out here. This thing is a rugged tool, that Lemo and SDI are really, really big deals when it comes to real world use and some of the weirder worlds a camera like this can end up in. EXT is some sort of external control port for sure and that's going to unlock a bunch of potential too.

With the pricing hint we got in the first post of <$5K for Hydrogen owners, this might very well be the long touted "6K for $6K" sort of concept, though who knows, it could be $6,199, $6,999 or whatever.


There's a bunch of stuff running in my head here because this is a new form factor and new body type. It's something RED could even build on later down the line if things go well and tech advances. Mini Digital Cinema, Micro Digital Cinema, mDSMC, I don't know what it will be called really.

People have been asking me when this thing is coming out, Jarred is saying this year near the end of the year. I do know National Reptile Day is October 21st, but that's an optimistic timeline in my mind. Who knows.

I'll spin my speculation wheel one more time for fun. I don't think anything is accidental here, the more I stare into the void of that mount I think about Komodo Dragon, in the RED world of Dragon and Monstro that normally means a 5 micron pixel pitch. Whatever this new sensor is could be built on that concept and that's a pixel size I can really get behind, though I have no real idea how the hell they got this thing to such a compact form factor. And if that is the case, this makes it a really useful B-Cam to Monstro and Dragon shoots where you want to truly match not only the format size, but also the resolution. And likely also pairs well with Gemini and Helium if the general format logic is kept the same.

My imagination is painting a fairly sensible picture of a camera that fits within the ecosystem to compliment the bigger beasts found in the world of DSMC2 and actually be super useful to "us" while also likely being a really nice entry point into the RED world of cameras for people who can't jump up to the big cams just yet.

If I'm dead on about the frame rates expected, more or less we're looking at a camera of about 1/2 the price of say a Dragon-X with about 1/2 the frame rate performance. And there's a long list of things we don't know for sure as of yet.




Yep, some sort of riser would be neato, I equally see that as an opportunity for something like an audio module or whatever. #inBeforeWoodenCameraDoesIt But yeah, audio and expanding audio capabilities will be ideal outside of that 3.5mm jack. This is the sort of body form factor that Sound Devices is all about with you just mounted the camera to the recorder then to the tripod. Might be worth making a single 4"x whatever stereo phantom soludion w/ SD card or whatever.

Good idea about the V-Mount adapter.

Yep, opening up this to the wild west of the media-scape is gonna be tricky. I'm betting they'll have recommended cards or something by the time launch happens. I think it's safe to say anybody who is making "the good CFast 2.0 media" is likely ideal.




USB-C would be useful, but I suspect it will end up being some sort of cable that can lock into place without slipping out, but that's all up in the air. The rest of the stuff seems to be build to not pop out.

D-Tap or AUX power, I'm betting not on the body. This thing is likely a really delicate power ecosystem to even do what it is doing and drawing out from the camera brain I think would be not ideal given the hardware. More likely battery pass through or whatever for accessories, echoing Zack's good idea for a V-Mount/G-Mount adapter.

so around the same price as a Raven body? interesting. This seems like it might get too pricey. $6k, tax, red armor, then new lenses, then new batteries, new media, etc. not against it, and for someone digging in for the first time it will be a great deal, but as an addition to an arsenal im not sure it makes sense as there looks like to be no compatibility with existing cameras. i would of loved a sony version with E mount and L series batts, almost every DP i know has some sort of A7 for photos and scouting at the least.

 

[Phil Holland]

so around the same price as a Raven body? interesting. This seems like it might get too pricey. $6k, tax, red armor, then new lenses, then new batteries, new media, etc. not against it, and for someone digging in for the first time it will be a great deal, but as an addition to an arsenal im not sure it makes sense as there looks like to be no compatibility with existing cameras. i would of loved a sony version with E mount and L series batts, almost every DP i know has some sort of A7 for photos and scouting at the least.

Interesting take, I'm a little elsewhere with it.

Raven was $6K "naked" if I remember correctly. $10-$12K with a really basic package. All the stuff that's compatible with Komodo is way less than $1K to even get up and running it appears (and there's likely stuff we really don't know yet). Raven however could indeed do 4K 120fps, but it's in a full blown DSMC2 body with the more power hungry Dragon sensor and you can accessorize for a more ideal shooting package on a production for A-Cam or whatever. I still see them out there working via the web.

Don't know about RED Armor here or anything like that, but lens-wise this thing is pretty damn cheap to adapt anything you own to it, just like adapting to E-Mount really. The batteries can be found for <$30, but >$100 if you are looking for the "official Canon" ones. Media, media pricing is indeed a hot topic these days, but CFast can be cheap or expensive depending on brand and capacity. I'll tell you right now, even when I can use cheaper media, I do not cheap out on it. It's not worth the *cost* in terms of things going terribly wrong.

E-Mount-ville. I'll word it brashly, Sony ain't going to be licensing E-Mount stuff to RED. That's their ecosystem and world they are building. I'm actually super excited to see a world being built on Canon RF, it's the earliest days, but RF holds much of the future of Canon's glass R&D and plays well to their interface to EF as well. Not to mention likely a few more still/motion/mirrorless mutant cameras that will be coming from them.

I agree though, I own a bunch of cameras and I do use the A7r series mainly for stills (*gasp* I still use a DSLR Canon 5DsR occasionally). But already Komodo's battery options are in a very different stratosphere. This is clearly a camera purpose designed for extremely compact motion picture work, from the sounds of it you can work for a real long time off a pair of BPs. Like maybe a whole day. That will be a fun one to test.

Outside of the used market, this does look like the first RED camera you can have up and running for sub $10K. We don't know the price really, but lets just say we "know" it's less than $5K per Jarred's post, toss 2-4X BPs ($30-$150 ea.) in there with 2-4X CFast cards (~$150 for a 64GB), maybe a $30-300 mount adapter of your choice, and go from there. Basically $1-$2K worth of goodies depending on how much you need.

With 4K over SDI Out, this might also open up the world of using external recorders for those who want to do such things.