KOMODO....

[Savannah Miller]

Actually RED is on 2nd gen Contrast AF Detection, the moderately basic way of doing it these days. Dual Pixel is pretty advanced stuff on the sensor level, but there's other technologies incoming outside of IR blasting, Phase Detection, and even AI.

But the actual point I'll make is it would be an awful waste of pins on that mount to not support autofocus in some fashion. We just don't know how, when, or *gasp* if it's implemented.

Though even with the most advanced stuff with eye tracking and all that, which is bloody impressive, I'm a firm believer you should still be pulling manual focus if you are attempting to tell a story. However, where this camera is positioned and likely used, I would say AF inside is sort of a no brainer. It's also built on the communication stuff RED is already familiar with tech-wise.

To early to tell really what's going on, but I'd start with the guess that AF is going to happen. Just how effective, what technologies used, and all that is unknown.

On that note did anyone see the Blackmagic Pocket Continuous autofocus demos? This tech is extremely impressive:

Maybe red could do something like this.

 

[Savannah Miller]

I wouldn't count on autofocus. The volume of sales have to go into 6 digits to justify the engineering in the sensor to develop fast and accurate AF. It would be a massive waste of resources for RED with uncertain outcome. There is a lot of materials to read on semi successful tech like DPAF or Sony , Panasonic equivalents. take some time to read and you'll get a better idea what it takes. They are on 4th-5th gen already. RED hasn't started yet....

Blackmagic sells in the 6 digits and they haven't even developed autofocus.

 

[Phil Holland]

On that note did anyone see the Blackmagic Pocket Continuous autofocus demos? This tech is extremely impressive:

Maybe red could do something like this.

The Lidar add-on, here's the link, is pretty interesting tech that could be applied to a lot of cameras.

It's certainly a technology worth exploring, but likely as an add-on still. I can see a world where multi-sensor scans could be implemented within a camera body, but occlusion issues still might be a thing. At the moment from what I've seen in the world of tiny Lidar integration stationary objects are the best sort of target. Big Lidar systems used in vehicles however are a different beast, but the question of resolving power on three dimensional objects comes into play quickly. Also choosing where to point on the surface of a three dimensional object. Sony's latest tech is focused on face tracking and pupil detection, which is neato. Canon's got some cool stuff too.

At the moment, my only real interest in faster AF would be for gimbal or steadicam use still. I see potential for a lot of things though. Depending on latency and even the lens motors themselves a point and drag on a touch screen could be implemented with responsive contrast AF even. But the processing speed, optimization, and variation in the lens motors as well as play found in them has been some of the reasons why it's not the best idea. But I'll bet you that's coming soon to big cams. A little shocked the Venice didn't get more jazz with the E-Mount stuff. But most general use cases for these larger cameras aren't AF based.

But it might not be much longer until you see an AC letting go of the wheel and dragging their finger or a stylus across a touch screen, maybe even pressure sensitive to control rack speed, to pull focus. One company is closing in on the ecosystem to support such tech industry-wide.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I don't think you realize how many young film makers maxed out their CCs, took loans and "begged, borrowed and stole " to purchase a Monstro.

WHY DO PEOPLE DO THIS. WHY. You can get really good cameras for not much money these days. A GH5 costs less than the most expensive iPhone! I love RED but come on, you can buy a Scarlet 4K for not much money. And you can get proper cinema lenses for not much more. Gear matters, and if you think it doesn't, stick with writing. But get a sense of proportion, FFS.

Prores data rates are significantly higher than RAW for any respectable quality. On top of that, encoding is much more processor intensive, hence why a lot of RED cameras cannot do high resolutions of Prores. If anything it will be the opposite and RAW only.

Hmm, I think I have to agree with that.

They use trickery such as pixel binning.

Sony doesn't. In fact they advertise the fact that they downsample the sensor's output to 4K. ;-) But I do agree with the rest of what you wrote.

 

[Mike P.]

If Komodo has Dual-Pixel AF, I'd definitely be interested. If an LP-E6 lasts 1hour/NPF lasts ~3 hours, then I'd also be interested.

Outside of that, I'm keen on seeing the Pocket 6k with an RF mount and/or Speedboosted EF mount.

If the pocket 4k is any indication, even at ~13stops, it actually has highlight latitude equivalent to Dragon+... which is pretty radical. And with its more even over/under you can get a really awesome image without much fuss. Plus it's GUI, Focus Assist, and (non-continuous) auto-focus is bang-on and quick. OH, and it's about as sharp as Dragon because it doesn't have an OLPF and BRAW 8:1 runs on almost everything in full-res/real-time, so there's a lot to love...

...competition is fierce in this space.

 

[Michael Porter]

Checking out Jared's last post on Instagram, a Komodo is lurking in the background with a GDU lens mounted. Since the GDU lenses don't have focus rings, is it safe to assume that Komodo has some form of autofocus?

I love all the teasers and speculation, it's fun to see what people have come up regarding specs and such.

If the sensor is the same one that Jim talked about during the Hydrogen Houdini launch evening (pretty sure that it is), we should be seeing a form of .r3d lite and I think this will be the key differentiating spec in comparison to it's bigger brothers. He talked about it being greater than 5k (we know it's 6k) and as he put it...should knock the socks off of any current mirrorless offerings in the same price range.

 

[kevinjoelson]

BOOM! SDI!

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Checking out Jared's last post on Instagram, a Komodo is lurking in the background with a GDU lens mounted. Since the GDU lenses don't have focus rings, is it safe to assume that Komodo has some form of autofocus?

Not necessarily. It's possible it can be for manual focusing using the lens' built-in focus motors -- a la Foolcontrol or RT Motion Latitude.

 

[Scott Balkum]

BOOM! SDI!

4K SDI no less....

 

[Lee Saxon]

If some of you still wonder about the provenance of that mysterious Komodo sensor...

"[This isn't the same sensor as the cameras you've listed, ]this is a Red sensor" doesn't really tell us the provenance, though, other than it not being that specific sensor. Somebody's gotta be fabbing the things.

Nikon, Leica, Fuji, etc also say "this is an [our brand] sensor" about sensors fabbed by Sony, CMOSIS, whoever. It can vary, even within brands, whether that means "it's not an off-the-shelf, we requested an exclusive custom configuration/modification" or "they fabbed it for us, but it's largely our design/IP." Nikon, for instance, supposedly does more of the former with D_ _ _ _ cameras and more of the latter for the D_ flagships. Red seems to do the latter, but still somebody's gotta build them.

I'm very skeptical that it matters, though.

 

[Jeffery Anderson]

anyone have an idea of what the price is going to be?

 

[Jarek Zabczynski]

anyone have an idea of what the price is going to be?

Under $5k if you own a Hydrogen apparently.

 

[Bastien Tribalat]

Monstro costs $40,000 just for the brain and near +/- $60,000 built out and can do 16-bit, 8K-FF resolution / 60fps @ 12:1 compression.

Gemini costs $19,000 for the brain and near +/- $30,000 built out and can do 16-bit, 5k-FF resolution / 60fps @ 6:1 compression.

Komodo will be offering 6k resolution at a price tag under +/- $7,000 (without Hydrogen).

So what does that tell us in the real world of R3D in corporate America with price-point?

Jared said it will not cannibalize DSMC2 and it is not a predecessor to DSMC3.... To my ears this leads me to the following assumptions...

1) 6k/30fps max OR severely limited compression & color depth (12-bit max) to not overstep DSMC2

2) (4k/120fps internal recording) - Canon and Sony have been dodging stepping up to the plate on this market with their gimbal favorable DSLR's for years (A7Siii /1dxiii?) in order to preserve FS7/C300. This I believe will be the true purpose and beauty of Komodo, with the ability for high frame rate gimbal work in such a small, affordable, and tough R3D package (B-Cam & Gimbal Cam for pro's / A-Cam for Prosumers)

2) Funny feeling this cam will be PRORES only.... WHY? (records to C-fast and will not use propriety media, full frame 6k resolution means high data rates, and most importantly how long has everyone been complaining that R3D's do not record high resolution PRORES internally and offer 4k SDI out. PRORES is the perfect solution for slicing down data rates without losing much on image quality. How good does 2k PRORES look recorded on DSMC2? Pretty stinking good surprisingly.... For this price point and position in the marketplace a lot of smaller productions (i.e. news, corporate ads, weddings, and docs) PRORES just makes sense for small productions who make their money off of reducing editing / production time. Many would praise PRORES over REDCode in post workflow. So would a lot of Colorists I deal with as crazy as that is. Furthermore, a lot of existing BM / Sony / Panasonic users also already own Small HD Monitors / Atomos recorders (hint hint 4k SDI out) and are already attuned to using PRORES flavors. In fact PRORES is pretty adored outside of the R3dcode community (i.e. Sony, Arri, Panasonic).

3)I could maybe see a new flavor of R3Dcode lite (Apple / Red collab) kind of like Pro-Res Raw for Sony / Panasonic or something for external recorders (4k SDI out) which may allow Komodo to achieve higher frame rates or better compression as you would with whatever is provided for internal recording. Hydrogen may have this capability built in somehow. I however will be very surprised if this camera offers full R3dcode and low compression rates at this resolution and price point.

Just my guess / 2 cents...

It's been like a century since my like post here (I kept reading though) but this discussion is really interesting.

First a quick note about your asumption (which I'm not saying is wrong. It is indeed very interesting) : 6KFF Redcode Raw 4:1 @24fps has a data rates of 178 MB/sec (https://i.imgur.com/x2EbkCs.png) and a CFAST 2.0 card has an advertised data rate of 500 MB/sec so it is quite possible that KOMODO will be able to record Redcode RAW.
(plus Blackmagic just announced its new 6K mini cinema camera that can record BRAW onto CF Cards... It's not as good as Redcode but still)

Now my guesses :
- it will be RED's take on a camera like the Z-Cam E2S6 (http://www.z-cam.com/e2-s6/)
- it will record Redcode RAW in 6K (@30fps FF and maybe 60 or so in 2.4:1) but might be limited to a higher compression rate (like 6:1 to be able to be certfied by Netflix for original contents production)
- the sensor will be new and might be a 6K version of the Raven sensor or something even cheaper and maybe limited to 14 or 12 bit instead of the usual 16
- it WON'T have dual ISO
- it will be made of alluminium alloy
- will use the new Canon RF mount
- will be able to use Hydrogen's phones as a monitor (via the contact pins on the phones)
- Wireless monitoring and control WILL REQUIRE a Hydrogen phone
- will have at list one SDI out (limited to 4K or even HD) OR a RED poprietary monitor out (lemo, used on DSMC2)
- I have NO IDEA AT ALL of the battery solution for this camera. I hope it won't be Canon's LP6
- target market IMHO : drone work, very low budget filmmakers (like students or just out of school filmmakers who needs a kinda cheap camera to get their ideas out to film festivals without breaking the bank or production budget) and DP/Cam Operators who want to own a kinda cheap RED to use as a B-Cam
- it won't come out soon enough since we're all eager to learn more, see it, play with it and so on

Obviously, those are just MY personnal ideas and it does not mean I'm right or anyone else here is wrong.

 

[David Rasberry]

I second the idea that it will record raw only. Most efficient highest quality acquisition. The SDI output makes it compatible with Atomos or similar external recorders for video.
Price under $5k IF you have a hydrogen probably means you will need the phone to run the camera.
We don't know what kind of port it might have for data connections. A USB-C/TB3 would make the most sense. Could it be used with an external USB preamp for high quality audio recording? Will it imbed audio on the SDI output?

 

[Greg M]

How does this not put in akward situation with my 8K ????

I would suggest you look at this as an opportunity...and opportunity to expand with a smaller b-camera that adds value to your original purchase. Or don't do anything, and keep shooting with a far superior option.

There will always be a new camera, if you can't deal with that then its best to stick with renting cameras instead of owning. Technology changes rapidly in this industry...that needs to be considered before spending your $$.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

- It is not 8k VV

That's only stating that it's not an 8K Vista Vision. It doesn't say that it's not a 6K VV. If it's a new sensor, it's a new pixel pitch, which means it's not a VV cut from any other sensor type. As far as I can see on the images released it looks pretty close to how my Canon R look when checking the sensor size against the RF mount, could be smaller, depends on the lens used for the picture, but it can also be the same size as the Dragon sensor at 6K, meaning slightly larger than s35mm. Dragon 6K has always been an odd size, but perfect for reframing into s35mm.

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/science/komodo-dragon-genome.html

 

[Jeffery Anderson]

That's only stating that it's not an 8K Vista Vision. It doesn't say that it's not a 6K VV. If it's a new sensor, it's a new pixel pitch, which means it's not a VV cut from any other sensor type. As far as I can see on the images released it looks pretty close to how my Canon R look when checking the sensor size against the RF mount, could be smaller, depends on the lens used for the picture, but it can also be the same size as the Dragon sensor at 6K, meaning slightly larger than s35mm. Dragon 6K has always been an odd size, but perfect for reframing into s35mm.

if it was Full Frame it would compete with the Alexa Mini LF for under 10K...

problem with Dragon 6K was that it was larger than super35 and a lot of cinema lenses are super35 - which isn't the case anymore - e.g. if you had a set of Zeiss Ultra Primes you would need to window the sensor down to 5.5K or 5K...

This might make the Medium Format Camera, that Jarred post seem relevant and if someone developed speedbooster to use Medium format lenses on a full frame sensor...

 

[Nick Morrison]

I don't think this is going to be a full frame sensor, I think folks need to be practical.

It may be a S35+ sensor.

But my guess is it's smaller - S35mm or maybe Academy.

 

[Nick Morrison]

I wish this question would be answered.

As an owner of a 8K Red I am 30+ K in for, and an owner of a hydrogen I purchased reservation to be used as a monitor ONLY as advertised.

Waiting perhaps for pocket camera module as advertised.


So now the option is to get a smaller than my red but larger considerably than the proposed module shown at hydrogen night red studios.

So how does this make any sense for me?

Spend $4999 on medium sized 6k RF red??

Can someone explain???

Please don't tell me I have the option not to buy this just seems like a product launched to compete with zcam and bmpcc and drop in hydrogen as a monitor reluctantly...... And noone seems to notice???? How does this not put in akward situation with my 8K ????

Unfortunately, this is the reality of owning equipment in this market place.

I know the feeling.

Imaging buying an Alexa Mini 6 months ago right before the Mini LF was announced.

This stuff happens.

The reality is you invest in the tools you need, but clients should hire you for how good YOU are.

It's a tough balance I know.