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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

KOMODO....

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If some of you still wonder about the provenance of that mysterious Komodo sensor...
 

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I think people speculating and dreaming about the specs for this camera need to take a step back and remember to consider electronics design and limitations for a moment.

A FF sensor capturing raw cinema images needs to process a lot of data, generates a lot of heat and consumes a lot of power. Do you want your tiny camera to overheat and sound like a jet engine with its tiny fan running full spin in its tiny body with its tiny heat sink struggling to keep everything cool? Do you want to change batteries every 25 minutes like some other companies seem OK with or add a battery brick bigger than your camera ?

Unless RED has come up with a sensor design that draws a lot less power and generates a lot less heat or unless it won't record high quality files such as R3D raw (very un-RED to do this) this will be a S35 sensor.

Even at this size I'm REALLY curious how they've figured out a way to cram a high quality RED designed sensor in a tiny box like this while keeping it cool and keeping fan noise to a minimum which has been one of the top issues or concerns with the DSMC2 cameras even though they've improved significantly over previous gen bodies. Operation noise is a major concern for people especially professionals and RED has shown to be very aware of this, e.g. the way they designed and positioned Ranger with its larger fan and heat sink for quieter operation. I doubt RED would release a noisy camera with the Komodo. Or at least I'm really hoping they won't.
 
P.S. For those thinking this might be a “cut” from existing RED sensors, I really don’t think so as current sensors and electronics designs draw too much power and generate too much heat. So for Komodo they’ve either made thermal and/or power improvements in sensor design or they’ve come up with a “midrange” sensor that captures less dynamic range for instance.
 
Fabricio Morato said:
My take on Komodo specs:

S35 sensor (that's what it looks to me from the 1st pic). Add a speed booster you get around FF and get a stop extra
OLPF Standard / non removable
15 stops
Dual ISO 800/3200
Redcode Raw/ProRes (not simultaneous)
6k (and 5k cropped) 24fps 5:1 / 50fps 10:1
4k cropped 120fps 12:1
2k cropped 240fps 8:1
NP-F batteries (@30W/h consumption)
Limited I/O options
Price $5,450
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Nope this is more like a testbed for a new breed of cameras. It will be 6-7K for non-Hydrogen owners. This is not a pro camera. It will not dwarf the features of the Gemini, Helium or Monstro. Think back to the post that stated RED was working on budget-friendly sensors for everyone. The real winner is the body design. It will be smaller than the DSMC 2. If it is well received it could usher in pro bodies that are smaller and lighter. 12bit raw with 13.5-14 stops 6k at 24-60fps
 
Savannah Miller said:
Where are you getting the resolution from? I would guess it's the same sensor in the A7III, Kinefinity Mavo LF, Z-Cam 6K FF, etc. I would not be surprised if Blackmagic is going to build a camera with the same sensor. Blackmagic's next cam may be a FF pocket with VARI-ND using the same sensor.

What's most shocking of all is, if this camera hovers around the +- $5000 point, this is significantly cheaper than even the Kinefinity MAVO LF.
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It's a RED sensor in Komodo and I think the world's tides would need to shift greatly for RED to use a Sony sensor.

I want to expand on that as this is relevant to the rest of what's coming in the marketplace between now and next year's camera offerings.

You'll see a host of cameras tapping into various off the shelf sensors and sensor designs, similar to what we already see. I think one moment in time to highlight was the journey of BMD vs. AJA with the Cion also using the same sensor as BMD. AJA's effort was muddled and BMD doubled down with the ecosystem, but the image off those two cameras was a alarmingly similar in many ways.

With digital cinema cameras and what I'm not coining as micro digital cinema cameras you live and die based on what the sensor produces and the other efforts that result in a final image, i.e. color science. More or less why so many had real strong opinions about different film stocks.

To that point, I think RED's going to continue their aggressive sensor R&D as it's one of the major things that sets them apart and truly puts them on the correct stage when it comes to image quality.


gabrielB said:
I'm REALLY curious
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Clearly a lot has transpired and RED's figured out how to get a beefy sensor in Komodo. We have to sort of tune expectation a bit as I see a lot of chatter online here and on the book of face regarding eating into the DSMC2 ecosystem. This isn't new for companies like Canon or Sony who already expand into different markets, but it's clear the A7 series is different than the Venice for instance in ways that matter for productions and filmmakers. I think this will also be the case for Komodo versus DSMC2 bodies and we don't even know the max fps, DR, or anything yet.

There is of course only so much you can do in a tiny package, but this is already shaping up to be something really interesting.


I find myself in a really unique position to be excited about Komodo mainly for it's form factor and how I can use that for my work, but there's other stuff going on here that I think will greatly impact DSMC3 cameras as well to make them notably more powerful in the near-ish future.
 
What if it's a 6K Gemini sensor? That would make it Full Frame.

It would have a new name, but be Gemini tech.

This sensor would also become available in DSCM2 and DSCM3.
 
Nick Morrison said:
What if it's a 6K Gemini sensor? That would make it Full Frame.

It would have a new name, but be Gemini tech.

This sensor would also become available in DSCM2 and DSCM3.
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First post:

Jarred Land said:
- It is not a Dragon or a Helium or a Gemini or a Monstro Sensor
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I think it's 100% a new sensor just to even handle the form factor and likely power requirements of this smaller camera.
 
Andrew Reese said:
Monstro costs $40,000 just for the brain and near +/- $60,000 built out and can do 16-bit, 8K-FF resolution / 60fps @ 12:1 compression.

Gemini costs $19,000 for the brain and near +/- $30,000 built out and can do 16-bit, 5k-FF resolution / 60fps @ 6:1 compression.

Komodo will be offering 6k resolution at a price tag under +/- $7,000 (without Hydrogen).

So what does that tell us in the real world of R3D in corporate America with price-point?

Jared said it will not cannibalize DSMC2 and it is not a predecessor to DSMC3.... To my ears this leads me to the following assumptions...

1) 6k/30fps max OR severely limited compression & color depth (12-bit max) to not overstep DSMC2

2) (4k/120fps internal recording) - Canon and Sony have been dodging stepping up to the plate on this market with their gimbal favorable DSLR's for years (A7Siii /1dxiii?) in order to preserve FS7/C300. This I believe will be the true purpose and beauty of Komodo, with the ability for high frame rate gimbal work in such a small, affordable, and tough R3D package (B-Cam & Gimbal Cam for pro's / A-Cam for Prosumers)

2) Funny feeling this cam will be PRORES only.... WHY? (records to C-fast and will not use propriety media, full frame 6k resolution means high data rates, and most importantly how long has everyone been complaining that R3D's do not record high resolution PRORES internally and offer 4k SDI out. PRORES is the perfect solution for slicing down data rates without losing much on image quality. How good does 2k PRORES look recorded on DSMC2? Pretty stinking good surprisingly.... For this price point and position in the marketplace a lot of smaller productions (i.e. news, corporate ads, weddings, and docs) PRORES just makes sense for small productions who make their money off of reducing editing / production time. Many would praise PRORES over REDCode in post workflow. So would a lot of Colorists I deal with as crazy as that is. Furthermore, a lot of existing BM / Sony / Panasonic users also already own Small HD Monitors / Atomos recorders (hint hint 4k SDI out) and are already attuned to using PRORES flavors. In fact PRORES is pretty adored outside of the R3dcode community (i.e. Sony, Arri, Panasonic).

3)I could maybe see a new flavor of R3Dcode lite (Apple / Red collab) kind of like Pro-Res Raw for Sony / Panasonic or something for external recorders (4k SDI out) which may allow Komodo to achieve higher frame rates or better compression as you would with whatever is provided for internal recording. Hydrogen may have this capability built in somehow. I however will be very surprised if this camera offers full R3dcode and low compression rates at this resolution and price point.

Just my guess / 2 cents...
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You have no clue how RED echo system works. RED has a very good track record of working with their user base to keep user's equipment falling into obsolescent. What you are seeing here is another passage of that journey.
 
Fingers crossed for a 5um x 5um pixel sensor, so it would perfectly match MONSTRO at 6K.
 
Great summary Phil...

looking forward for the fireworks details soon...
 
If only komodo have great ai autofocus it will be my main gimball camera. Is there any word on when i estimated to be ready?
 
Joel Arvidsson said:
If only komodo have great ai autofocus it will be my main gimball camera. Is there any word on when i estimated to be ready?
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I wouldn't count on autofocus. The volume of sales have to go into 6 digits to justify the engineering in the sensor to develop fast and accurate AF. It would be a massive waste of resources for RED with uncertain outcome. There is a lot of materials to read on semi successful tech like DPAF or Sony , Panasonic equivalents. take some time to read and you'll get a better idea what it takes. They are on 4th-5th gen already. RED hasn't started yet....
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
I wouldn't count on autofocus. The volume of sales have to go into 6 digits to justify the engineering in the sensor to develop fast and accurate AF. It would be a massive waste of resources for RED with uncertain outcome. There is a lot of materials to read on semi successful tech like DPAF or Sony , Panasonic equivalents. take some time to read and you'll get a better idea what it takes. They are on 4th-5th gen already. RED hasn't started yet....
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Actually RED is on 2nd gen Contrast AF Detection, the moderately basic way of doing it these days. Dual Pixel is pretty advanced stuff on the sensor level, but there's other technologies incoming outside of IR blasting, Phase Detection, and even AI.

But the actual point I'll make is it would be an awful waste of pins on that mount to not support autofocus in some fashion. We just don't know how, when, or *gasp* if it's implemented.

Though even with the most advanced stuff with eye tracking and all that, which is bloody impressive, I'm a firm believer you should still be pulling manual focus if you are attempting to tell a story. However, where this camera is positioned and likely used, I would say AF inside is sort of a no brainer. It's also built on the communication stuff RED is already familiar with tech-wise.

To early to tell really what's going on, but I'd start with the guess that AF is going to happen. Just how effective, what technologies used, and all that is unknown.
 
Phil Holland said:
Actually RED is on 2nd gen Contrast AF Detection, the moderately basic way of doing it these days. Dual Pixel is pretty advanced stuff on the sensor level, but there's other technologies incoming outside of IR blasting, Phase Detection, and even AI.

But the actual point I'll make is it would be an awful waste of pins on that mount to not support autofocus in some fashion. We just don't know how, when, or *gasp* if it's implemented.

Though even with the most advanced stuff with eye tracking and all that, which is bloody impressive, I'm a firm believer you should still be pulling manual focus if you are attempting to tell a story. However, where this camera is positioned and likely used, I would say AF inside is sort of a no brainer. It's also built on the communication stuff RED is already familiar with tech-wise.

To early to tell really what's going on, but I'd start with the guess that AF is going to happen. Just how effective, what technologies used, and all that is unknown.
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Autofocus, or manual focus for that matter only uses two pins for I'm not sure what you mean about awful waste of pins. What gen of contrast detection AF really doesn't matter because when any kind of PDAF is used they have to start over . So no they haven't started yet ;-)
 
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