KOMODO....

[David Rasberry]

It sure works with 100 ASA film, no one ever said it wouldn't, but
what if you use film you don't know the ASA of? How do you determine if it's a 50, 100, 250, 500 ASA or in between, whatever? What do you do?

Phil, feel free to chime in! :biggrin:

Simple. Light an 18% gray card or grayscale chart to a meter referenced ISO rating. Bracket chart exposures around that rating and measure the negative or resulting print with a densitometer. I used to do this with each fresh batch of film when shooting works of art for a museum for publications. Different film batches might vary as much as 1/3rd stop either way from the nominal rating on the box.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Simple. Light an 18% gray card or grayscale chart to a meter referenced ISO rating. Bracket chart exposures around that rating and measure the negative or resulting print with a densitometer. I used to do this with each fresh batch of film when shooting works of art for a museum for publications. Different film batches might vary as much as 1/3rd stop either way from the nominal rating on the box.

See, Brian, to David you listen! :biggrin:

Thanks, David! :thumbsup:

 

[Brian Boyer]

See, Brian, to David you listen! :biggrin:

Thanks, David! :thumbsup:

Congratulations. You got an answer to a question you asked which had nothing to do with what I was talking about. We weren't talking about the same thing...at all.

You think because I used the word "determine" instead of "derive," like you did, that it means something different in the context of the discussion. It doesn't. Perhaps it's a language thing.

I only brought up the formula to help you realize the method you stated for coming up with middle gray is faulty. The way you do it is:

Simple. Light an 18% gray card or grayscale chart to a meter referenced ISO rating.

...or get an incident reading from your meter...or use the formula I gave you.

Take your own advice and listen to David.

 

[Brian Boyer]

Although the subject currently discussed always makes for an interesting read there's a part of me that would like to see part of the discussion circle back to Komodo.

Here are some thoughts. Komodo is a new camera design in a body significantly smaller than what RED has ever done before. People expect S35 or even hope for FF which as we know with current high quality sensor tech requires a lot of power and generates a lot of heat and needs beefy cooling.

This new camera design being smaller means smaller heatsink which has to mean less heat generated which then also means lower power draw (also nobody expects having to hook up V mounts for adequate run time on a camera of this size)

If RED can keep this sensor specs in line with the DSMC2s in terms of color science and DR, and be in line with expected resolution and frame rates compared to cameras such as the Zcam, it would then mean RED has developed new sensor tech and electronics design that can capture high quality cinema imageries in a package that draws less juice generates less heat and requires less cooling.

This to me is quite significant and pretty exciting. And it also makes me wonder about the future and how these new thermal & power improvements may be implemented in larger upcoming DSMC3 cameras/sensors that could draw less power run cooler and be quieter !!

Although the discussion did get a little off track, for my part at least, it started out and still is more about the sensor than anything else.

If RED delivers a sensor that does what I've been droning on about over the last 10 pages (and few years), I wouldn't care what lens mount Komodo has. If it didn't fit my EF lenses, I'd get an adapter. If no adapter were available, I'd sell the EF lenses and buy whatever lenses fit the mount.

I wouldn't care what kind of battery it takes, how much power draw it had or how it was cooled. We know it will use CFast cards but I wouldn't care if it still used REDmags. I wouldn't care if I could only use a Hydrogen as a viewfinder.

Now, like I said before, I think it a reasonable assumption that whatever the sensor is, it would also be available for the unified body becasue of the swapping program. But, if I could only get it in the Komodo body, I wouldn't care about that, either.

I know the things I don't care all that much about are legitimate concerns for a great many people and they're right to want to know what this camera is and isn't and how it will fit with how they work, or would like to.

My thing is I'd figure the rest of that stuff out and make do where I had to in order to get that functionality in a sensor.

I decided a while back that, until someone develops a sensor that captures significantly higher light intensity, I come into a shitload of money and can buy cameras on a whim, or RED lets me do an even swap with a Gemini for my camera, I'm sticking with my Scarlet Dragon.

 

[Sabovic Adis]

Congratulations. You got an answer to a question you asked which had nothing to do with what I was talking about. We weren't talking about the same thing...at all.

I know.

Unfortunate that it took an David to get an answer - from you.

(David, please don't get mad at me for using your name like this, it's all educational purposes :rofl

You think because I used the word "determine" instead of "derive," like you did, that it means something different in the context of the discussion. It doesn't. Perhaps it's a language thing.

I only brought up the formula to help you realize the method you stated for coming up with middle gray is faulty. The way you do it is:



...or get an incident reading from your meter...or use the formula I gave you.

Take your own advice and listen to David.

Brian, the formula you provided (which I didn't ask for!) is only useful when there's only one unknown. I'm talking two unknowns here.

How do you determine the optimal exposure (gray card here!) for a given film or sensor, not knowing it's ASA/ISO rating beforehand, if not by Phil way of empirically determining things, aka find out it's MINs and MAXs by testing?
Answer: you don't. :biggrin:
P.S.
To you too I apologize, Phil, for dragging you into this.

 

[Samir Patel]

Loved when reduser stayed on topic...

 

[Adam Johnson]

Adopt a similar design that already works and make it a lot better. Cant wait for RED’s “Z Cam” sized cinema camera. Been waiting for a pocket RED since the release of the original Red One M.

Blackmagic was on the right track, but they seem to have lost their steam and innovative direction. The new Z Cam and Sigma cameras look really interesting, and the next wave should be even better. Blackmagic RAW is awesome, but I’m not a big fan of the sensor technology they settle on, much like the rest of the industry. Everyone using the same damn sensor in a different box... small tweaks using their own compression formula. Not really interested in that design concept per se. We see a lot of “cinema cameras” which is awesome but they lack sensor innovation.

RED relies heavily on the innovative R&D sensor development team. Hand picking the right sensor designs, tweaking them, and utilizing every ounce of sensor magic possible. That’s why the industry was pushed forward. I expect them to continue that trend.

This little RED is going to be a powerful workhorse.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Everyone using the same damn sensor in a different box... small tweaks using their own compression formula. Not really interested in that design concept per se.

I object to the use of mediocre sensors in the Hydrogen, too. But as for Blackmagic, well, they offer value, not cutting edge innovation. That's why their products are affordable. The Pocket 4K is a great product but then again, it doesn't do it for me. If the body shape had been different, it could have been the DSMC I have been waiting for at a reasonable price. Not quite. Komodo won't be that either, I don't think.

 

[Brian Boyer]

I know.

You clearly don’t. Get ye behind me, Satan.

Loved when reduser stayed on topic...

Hmm...that must be a time before 2009, when I first started reading regularly. Jim used to shut down threads that went off the rails quite often.

At any rate, everyone rejoice. I’ve said my piece on the subject and will wait to find out more info as it becomes available.

 

[Samir Patel]

Hmm...that must be a time before 2009, when I first started reading regularly. Jim used to shut down threads that went off the rails quite often.

Not calling anyone out specifically of course. Just... nowadays... check in on occasion and find myself nauseated where discussions go off topic far too often. Just a different terrain I guess.

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

So... are we looking at a few weeks or many months before Komodo is released? Really hope you’ll be able to match Z-Cam’s October release of their new S35 and FF 6K cameras!

 

[Mike P.]

So... are we looking at a few weeks or many months before Komodo is released? Really hope you’ll be able to match Z-Cam’s October release of their new S35 and FF 6K cameras!

I thought they're both Full-frame; F6 is 6k and the F8 is 8k (And the currently available E2 is m43 at 4k)?

Edit: Yeah, that's correct; both are FF35. They also just announced the E2C for $800, which is the same as the E2, but only does 30fps.

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

I thought they're both Full-frame; F6 is 6k and the F8 is 8k (And the currently available E2 is m43 at 4k)?

Edit: Yeah, that's correct; both are FF35. They also just announced the E2C for $800, which is the same as the E2, but only does 30fps.

Almost.. F6 and F8 are both FF @ 6K and 8K, while S6 is S35 @6K (there are three new cameras coming in October)

 

[Mike P.]

Almost.. F6 and F8 are both FF @ 6K and 8K, while S6 is S35 @6K (there are three new cameras coming in October)

Good to know!

I presume it’s going to be cheaper than the F6?

Any tightening up on the release date of Komodo, or is it still End of 2019?

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

�� Good to know! ��

I presume it’s going to be cheaper than the F6?

Any tightening up on the release date of Komodo, or is it still End of 2019?

Given the price not being under 5K I doubt it'll be cheaper than the F6.

I think the F6, F8, and Komodo will be fighting for that new space. I wonder if Kinefinity tries to get in there too.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

I wish Komodo to be the gimball king. Light, global shutter, spectacular ia autofocus, built in stepless nd.

 

[Mathias Erichsen]

I presume it’s going to be cheaper than the F6?

If you mean S35, then yes ($3000 at release, $2500 for preorders and $2000 for E2 owners that preorder)

To me the main reason to wait for Komodo is R3D. I just hope the Komodo’s other specs won’t be too far behind Z-Cam - hopefully they’re better

 

[Misha Engel]

Z-CAM is pretty open about what they (plan to) deliver.
http://www.z-cam.com/

Haven't seen the performance/color science of ZRAW 12 and 14 bits, so we have to wait and see.

 

[RJ_Ortiz]

I wish Komodo to be the gimball king. Light, global shutter, spectacular ia autofocus, built in stepless nd.

This is what I'm hoping for. i'd love for this to be a supplemental cam to my other sensor and be permanently attached to movement tools like a gimbal. This would make my life so much easier when doing multiple setups.

 

[ryanpostas]

This looks like a Canon RF mount to me... if it is, can we expect one for Helium as well!??