Kinefinity MAVO Edge

[rand thompson]

I'm hoping to get one of the first pre production Edge's. Will keep ya'll posted when I put it through the paces. More to come hopefully soon!

Thanks for that Chris! I'm sure a lot of us want to know if it's the "real thing" or just a poof of smoke.

 

[rand thompson]

To me, by placing the screen on top for Komodo, RED has to come up with an interchangeable focusing hood similar to Classic Hasselblad V. It is very clever, in the classic 90 degree glass prism, you can just flip and fold down the hood completely flat. For Komodo, one could think when the hood is folded down flat, one can still access the buttons on the right side. But the screen is protected.
Then there is a 45 degree prism finder where you can look straight through. Like this, you can adapt to both shooting style, top down or straight.

Otherwise, top screen of Komodo is a design failure if you ask me.
Gimbal would be difficult, using top rods or top handle also.

Thai,

If the hood is designed like the Hasselblad hood you mention above, that would be great. I think Red more than likely designed the UI on the Komodo to be easily maneuverable with the on board buttons. Red will more that likely bring rigging to the Komodo that will ease your concerns about gimbal use. It will probably be something that we least expect or would have thought of.

 

[rand thompson]

Here's a link to the kinefinity forum


http://kinecommunity.com/forum/

 

[rand thompson]

Re/Connections



This below video shows the Kinefinity Mavo Primes on the Kinefinity Mavo LF


Here's an except from the link below about the Mavo Prime Lenses with the Mavo LF

https://nofilmschool.com/kinefinity-mavo-lf-launch-film

 

[Carlos Garcia-Diaz]

Thanks for that Chris! I'm sure a lot of us want to know if it's the "real thing" or just a poof of smoke.

+2 Please do this if you can Chris.

Thai,
If the hood is designed like the Hasselblad hood you mention above

Someone posted a mock-up of this in the Komodo thread. Good luck finding it though

Rand: thanks for all of the pics/links/videos/info. Awesome of you.

 

[rand thompson]

Carlos,


You're welcome and thanks for the info about the Mockup of the hood! It's probably going to be a while before any "New" info comes out.

 

[rand thompson]

In the meantime, here's two links to Mavo S35 footage the first with 4 Prores clips and the second with 2 prores clips.

link to original artlcle by "4K shooters" with the cameraman of the footage below, You Feng

https://www.4kshooters.net/2018/04/...red-on-the-kinefinity-mavo-6k-camera-emerges/

here's also a link to the Official log to REC709 Lut "KineNEUTM" for the MAVO LF and MAVO 6K

http://www.kinefinity.com/workflow_kine_lut/?lang=en

7.7 Gb
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kyunle5zmili4q1/AAAUSHyIhqYsa7cwmAIkbw-za?dl=0

2.4 GB
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f77zxkl6w9nkzn3/AAD8OjXjDDl7iiN9w5bwlk1Ba?dl=0

 

[rand thompson]

You Feng's images look great with just the KineNUETM lut applied. I removed some of the blue from two of the images and added some saturation and some contrast. Excuse the black bars to the left and right of the images, they were in a 4096x2160 resolve project.

 

[peter richweisz]

Just a quick case study on Kinefinity. A few years ago living in Dubai I drew attention of Terra to a friend of mine who had b2b distribution network of broadcast gears (from Arri to Sony you name it). He liked the idea of adding it to his portfolio and asked me to help with the business set up to distribute Kinefinity in the Middle East. So I contacted them via email. We were offering them a showroom in a premium location, a service facilitation and a full marketing road map with workshops and print media and social media coverage. That time Kinefinity was even a less known brand and I knew without strong marketing the product itself wont go too far. For our effort anf investment we wanted to secure exclusivity at least in the UAE. I prepared an entire proposal to the Chinese headquarter. We have not received any sort of responds for moths despite constant hustling emails. I called them few times and they said they have seen the email and will get back to me. Eventually they did make a effort to write a rather obscure reply covering not even half f the issues I addressed. They were offering a tiny margin on the product with full upfront investment and no exclusivity. I still tried to build a back and forth communication but replies were not really coming. I offered my time and jump on a plane and go through all the details sitting at the same table, I had a Chinese friend to call them up and we tried to set up a meeting on her travel to Beijing, but no luck. Anyway cut the story short. the entire communication was rather constipated so we gave up on any further efforts. I am not sure if its still the case but it really seamed to me they were very content with their domestic market, probably large enough for a new brand with limited supply infrastructure, so they showed zero interest in expansions. Seeing the current economic melt down of the west and the Gatses plan to extend the lock downs for years we might be queuing up for Chinese cameras and lenses in a few years time if they can maintain their rather promising developments while the west imposing viruses over the economy. It does look like (at least on paper) with the Edge and the new set of prime lenses they really stepped up to be contesters at the digital cinema market and their pricing in the upcoming months or years of recession gonna make a few heads turned for sure.

 

[Thai Christen]

Thai,

If the hood is designed like the Hasselblad hood you mention above, that would be great. I think Red more than likely designed the UI on the Komodo to be easily maneuverable with the on board buttons. Red will more that likely bring rigging to the Komodo that will ease your concerns about gimbal use. It will probably be something that we least expect or would have thought of.

Komodo clearly wasn't designed to be rigged with top rods, handle and such. But the top screen in a small cube box screams for a shooting style à la Hasselblad V IMO.
Having said that, even if RED or anyone else come up with a hood or focusing prism solution for the screen, the issue still remains that you have to touch the screen when you want to change settings. RED should at least place a wheel button on the side of the body which allows full navigation through the menu.

 

[rand thompson]

Thai,

Who knows what the Red Komodo will be capable of by the times it is made available. You might be able to control it remotely with a control with physical buttons negating using the touch screen altogether for those who don't want to use it.

 

[rand thompson]

I put together a video of the 6 video clips from You Feng


507MB

https://we.tl/t-VL3GACyLBT

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Otherwise, top screen of Komodo is a design failure if you ask me.
Gimbal would be difficult, using top rods or top handle also.

It's not designed for monitoring on a gimbal.

It's designed so you can fix it to a car mount, check the shot and prep it without having to fiddle with external gear, while hundreds are waiting, and for setups where things tend to break off. For example.

 

[Thai Christen]

Thai,

Who knows what the Red Komodo will be capable of by the times it is made available. You might be able to control it remotely with a control with physical buttons negating using the touch screen altogether for those who don't want to use it.

Rand,
I am sure there will be some sort of remote control. But this contradicts with the philosophy of Komodo to keep things simple and nimble.

It's not designed for monitoring on a gimbal.

I am not talking about monitoring on gimbal. I still use traditional gimbals (Mövi, Gremsy) where you use top and bottom mounting plates. Not sure how it works with the top plate without scratching the screen though (maybe screen on Komodo is recessed?). But I am sure there is a workaround.

 

[luigivaltulini]

I put together a video of the 6 video clips from You Feng


507MB

https://we.tl/t-VL3GACyLBT

some stiil for you eheh MAvo/Monstro/Mini Lf

http://vpn.cine5k.red/s/enPfJqt2Hz9Dky3

 

[rand thompson]

Luigi,

Thanks! You're killing me with these overexposed images!:scared:l HaHaHaHaHaHa:thumbsup:



Here are a few of the Mavo LF first. The highlights are gone!!, I really want to see how ProRes Raw in the Mavo Egde would handle this. I put them in a 4096x2160 project hence the black bars.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I am not talking about monitoring on gimbal. I still use traditional gimbals (Mövi, Gremsy) where you use top and bottom mounting plates. Not sure how it works with the top plate without scratching the screen though (maybe screen on Komodo is recessed?). But I am sure there is a workaround.

I'm concluding this design choice was based on different priorities. Cinema grade compact camera with quick setup and shot check, not dependent on external monitor. Which is an advantage for car mount, body mount, helmet cam, whatever mount, action sports, crash cam etc. While it can be also adapted for typical usage.
Doesn't look like it's designed for top plate.

 

[rand thompson]

here's Monstro, I'll do the Arri stuff a lil later.

 

[rand thompson]

Arri

 

[C. Burkhart]

@Rand
This is pretty much my conclusion every time I see these kind of comparisons.
The Mavo LF, like many modern cameras does extremely well within it's range. Manufacturer's are really optimizing what they have (Fuji I am looking at you).
Outside that range there is often however, a pronounced drop in quaity.
The great problem with Red is that it doesn't hold highlights well enough. On foreheads/faces this can be a disaster. Even as shown here with the Monstro. It's latitude is in the shadows, not the highlights. So it doesn't matter how much you pull the exposure back to pick up those highlights, the result is either too great contrast or less nuances in the face, which can tend to look wooden very quickly. Invariably you have to go towards secondaries to compensate.
And the Alexa's great difficulty is that while it often does hold better DR than the crowd behind (as witnessed by the extra detail in the window of your pix), HOWEVER, there is frequently a color cross over between magenta and green. So what this means on a practical level, is for instance on a cold day, a subjects hands might be a little rosier than normal, and this is amplified by the camera, while at the same time the face which was neutral goes green if you try to correct for the hands. This is not a saturation issue, it's a sensitivity one. (Greater sensitivity in certain part of the color spectrum than otheres). So you end up doing a lot of secondaries to compensate for that issue, either by desaturating or CC'ing local areas of the image. This may be down to the Arri LUT which everyone uses, but it is a pain in the butt for a colorist. However, to Arri's credit I have always found that there is so much information there underneath, that you can almost always recover what you need, even if it takes some extra effort.

End of the day, as we all know no camera is perfect (don't get me started on Blackmagic which often make images that look like black and white which have been colorized), but it really does mean that you have to have command of the whole chain of your visual capture from beginning to end in order to achieve consistent results.