KETCH ROSSi

[Will Keir]

so don't surprise yourself if most times then others I do know a bit more then the average poster here

That's why i come to your thread, i value the time you've spent using equipment, buying equipment, working through challenges. Advice from experienced professionals is rare unless you are on set. The fact you put yourself out there and openly answer questions from all comers shows a high level of class. i heard it somewhere and it was well said. "you truly don't know something until you can teach it simply.

I respect every one's opinion, but if they are saying as if it is the fact, then if it is not I correct them, or just simply give my STRONG opinion about, which could sound like I'm always right and them always wrong, but it is so, only when is the truth...

Strong opinions are a step on the search for truth. You keep them because of the learning required to attain them and hold onto them because they have been earned. Strong opinions can be very useful for someone searching for answers, filling in missing pieces of a puzzle. Like everything, you filter what you find and choose to keep or remember the important bits. When the Strong opinions no longer hold that truth, you updated them, use them for what you need them for, make news ones. Simple.

i'm looking for the FACTS Ketch believes in about Master Primes. if you have anything to add, and i doubt most except Ketch, are reading this still, but please add to the discussion. if you are looking to argue, there are other threads commonly ignored for that but you won't find Ketch or i there. Thanks for the advice Ketch. i'll be back

 

[Ketch Rossi]

The speed of MPs you can't argue with, nor their healthy cost. is there a similarly fast less that is considered the next "step down," when purchasing lenses? is that the super speeds?

That's why i come to your thread, i value the time you've spent using equipment, buying equipment, working through challenges. Advice from experienced professionals is rare unless you are on set. The fact you put yourself out there and openly answer questions from all comers shows a high level of class. i heard it somewhere and it was well said. "you truly don't know something until you can teach it simply.



Strong opinions are a step on the search for truth. You keep them because of the learning required to attain them and hold onto them because they have been earned. Strong opinions can be very useful for someone searching for answers, filling in missing pieces of a puzzle. Like everything, you filter what you find and choose to keep or remember the important bits. When the Strong opinions no longer hold that truth, you updated them, use them for what you need them for, make news ones. Simple.

i'm looking for the FACTS Ketch believes in about Master Primes. if you have anything to add, and i doubt most except Ketch, are reading this still, but please add to the discussion. if you are looking to argue, there are other threads commonly ignored for that but you won't find Ketch or i there. Thanks for the advice Ketch. i'll be back

Thanks for the very kind words Will, and yes I do take extremely seriously this industry as it is purely my Passion and why I do it, as I am fortunate in ogg to have chosen for PASSION and not needing to make money from it, as I do that from other venues in much higher numbers that I could ever do in this Industry, and this is why every time I do a workshop I do it for Free and why my Mega Studios will have a FREE Film School as well as many other programs.

Now to answer your question about Super Fast Glass, here it goes, first in line are the Master Primes, for many reasons, to mention the most important ones, A) They truly are insanely GOOD even Wide Open... B) They are Super Color Matched and will maintain their color and all their qualities form Focal to Focal, and thru out Focus and Aperture... C) They have an incredible Focal line up...

Cokes are great glass too, but not nearly as good and even a little larger and heavier then MP's, but i don't particularly like their softness and their Warmth characteristics, other then that are great glass too.

LEICA S. Cine Primes, are what seem to be the most promising Super Fast glass to come to life since the event of the MP's over a decade ago, but this are so limited in both delivery speeds, and Focal availability, that don't always make it the best choice depending on the needs, but I will be doing a more in depth test of this glass side by side with the MP's very soon as well.


Super Speeds, they were DEAD Old Crap glass that no one wanted, and I could buy 50 Sets for 5K per Set, and today because of what RED ONE did to the Lens market they have become a commodity were some buy them because they are the absolute cheapest option for Super Fast glass, some because they do like their So called Look, I called Old glass so full of Artifacts that I would never put it in front of my EPIC, NEVER, but that is because I look to get the absolute best and cleanest and sharpest image I possibly can at the RAW state from my camera, I do however respect those that now are willing to pay 40 to 50k for a set of this glass, because they can either do not afford to pay for MP's or Leica glass, or simply because they like it, but I would never suggest to any one to buy such glass, PERIOD!!

Now, I have tested some other Super Fast glass, and none is worth mentioning as it did not pass any of my tests, while one that I tested during my EPIC AMERICAN Tour, were the Iluminas, and I like them and didn't like them, but now in the days to come the owner of the company has arranged form some one to bring a set from London to Italy so that I can test the MKII version, and I'll report on it as soon as I do.

This glass if better then the MKI could bring a very Affordable solution, so stay tuned, as I'll be posting HERE a Video and BTS stuff of this test as son as I do it.

 

[James T Mather]

Super Speeds, they were DEAD Old Crap glass that no one wanted, and I could buy 50 Sets for 5K per Set, and today because of what RED ONE did to the Lens market they have become a commodity were some buy them because they are the absolute cheapest option for Super Fast glass, some because they do like their So called Look, I called Old glass so full of Artifacts that I would never put it in front of my EPIC, NEVER, but that is because I look to get the absolute best and cleanest and sharpest image I possibly can at the RAW state from my camera, I do however respect those that now are willing to pay 40 to 50k for a set of this glass, because they can either do not afford to pay for MP's or Leica glass, or simply because they like it, but I would never suggest to any one to buy such glass, PERIOD!!

And I happen to prefer the look of speeds and Cooke to Master Primes which look very clinical and uninteresting to me. It's all opinions. That's the beauty of letting people have a choice.

Personally, I happen to prefer the EPIC with old glass - Ketch does not. These are opinions. Master Primes are also lenses you might consider. Or Cookes. Or Super Baltars. Or Anamorphics. Or Red Pro primes. There are no rules - only opinions. If we all chose the same lenses because someone told us to then we'd be sheep. It's about deciding what you like. If what you like is also what others like then you'll be a working DP.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

And I happen to prefer the look of speeds and Cooke to Master Primes which look very clinical and boring to me. It's all opinions. That's the beauty of letting people have a choice.

Absolutely no argument there James, and it is in fact that Super Clean look of the Master Primes that I love, as it brings me an image as perfect as possible to the RAW workflow, ready for me to play with in Post like a clean Canvas is to a Painter.

It is all a matter of PERSONAL TASTE when it comes to chose a Lens vs. an other, however if one asks the difference form one lens to the other, in facts of Mechanical and Caractheristis or Artifacts of one, the other, then is not opinion but facts that ned to be represented properly and truthfully with out BIAS, and that is what I do...

 

[James T Mather]

I'm not sure that it's without bias Ketch, if I'm being honest - but that is my opinion.

Declaring Superspeeds as "DEAD Old Crap glass" seems a pretty biased statement as well as suggesting a number of other things -

As far as the Epic vs. the Alexa, I have clearly stated the FACTS so many times, and not my Opinions, but FACTS which were proven via many direct field and studios tests of one against the other with high budgets and the Epic won hands down every single time, even so some of this time the Alexa was still chosen at the end, do to more then one factor, none of them to do with image quality or capacity of the Epic, which was superior in every aspect even to their eyes, but decided for the Alexa saying they didn't need it the extra Resolution or that they needed a direct Baked image right out of camera

- this doesn't seem unbiased to me. On several occasions recently I have heard from producers, directors and quite a few DOPs that the Alexa's colour rendition, highlight handling and film feel surpasses many other cameras - including the Red cameras. Just ask Roger Deakins or Rob Richardson who seem to be advocates of that system. It's their opinion.

"shooting RAW, with a HIGH end camera, requires the BEST glass you can use, and this glass is currently the MP's, no other comes even close"

...seems a teeny bit biased to suggest that it REQUIRES the BEST glass - and this glass is MPs. You forgot to add "in my opinion" - you seem to state this as hard fact: It is REQUIRED. Rob Richardson shot Hugo on Cooke 5/i lenses because he felt "I gravitated toward the notion of starting with the very best". For him it was the Cookes. And that film won the cinematography Oscar that year. So he might be on to something, I don't know.

The Alexa is a great camera, but it is the BASTARD son of the now DEAD Film Camera and the Broadcast camera, which Arri despite being in business since the beginning of times never had a play in it, so the Alexa is neither a Film camera, neither has the capacity to produce images of the same resolution, and neither is a Broadcast camera and neither has the capacity to be used as such as successfully as Panasonic, Sony, and Samsung, or Canon.

Again, I'd have to draw you up on a perceived lack of bias here.These are not facts. It seems like a tirade against a camera you don't like. I refer to my earlier point about Roger Deakins and Rob Richardson. They are of a different opinion. Or Seamus McGarvey who opined: "I was really happy with our images. What was particularly impressive was how well it held up in IMAX theaters". He was issuing his opinion about the Alexa camera.

I do however respect those that now are willing to pay 40 to 50k for a set of this glass, because they can either do not afford to pay for MP's or Leica glass

This seems to state that they would use them if they could afford to pay for them so it seems like they would use MP's in favour of Speeds purely on the basis of cost. This is not my situation and I choose to use Speeds because I like the look - as I do of other glass.

So I'm afraid that in my opinion, your posts are not unbiased at all. It just doesn't seem that way -you seem to have an agenda. That is why I felt compelled to voice an alternative opinion. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that these declaratory statements you make are your opinions and are influenced by your preferences. I'm sure you don't mind - seeing as this is a search for unbiased opinion rather than someone saying that the only lenses you can rationally use are such and such or the only camera you must use is such and such. But that is just my opinion - as all lens and camera discussions invariably are. I would have said that people with strong opinions are not unbiased, they are heavily biased, but that is just one man's opinion.

I'm not out to get you Ketch, but in my opinion you seem to claim "respect" for other peoples opinions but shout down people who are of a different but equally valid mindset to yourself. There's room for more than one opinion. It would be a boring world if we all just shot on Epics and MP's and nothing else. Horses for courses.

"The more opinions you have, the less you see" : Wim Wenders.

"The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind." William Blake.

 

[James T Mather]

A Music Video shot on af100 using superspeeds and Duclos 11-16mm. I'm not madly in love with their colour grade personally but it gives an idea.

http://vimeo.com/23283557

 

[Ketch Rossi]

James,

I know you are surely not out to get me, no one is, as I have never done anything to any one to make them come after me...

However even so I give room for my far form perfect English interpretation, and also give room for others as in this case you to further miss interpret my words, I do say what I know out of facts, and surely have NO agenda, as I take NO MONEY from any one to say what I say.

Choices in this world are a great thing to have , but also in order to make a choice one must know what He She is choosing form, and I give my opinion and also my knowledge of what I know, by personal experience with the gear I have used.

I din't like the R1, thousands did, I didn't and for this reason, I never shot anything with my 3 R1's and sold them shortly after, besides of course also the Economical tragedies that effect me as well as other Millions of Americans during that stage, I did Directed and Produced couple of projects and that was it, then here comes EPIC and this is the camera I had been waiting for my entire life, and I sure am not BIAS to RED, just stating the FACT that the EPIC is the ABSOLUTE BEST CAMERA SYSTEM IN THE WORLD TODAY... Any one saying any different has no clue what a Camera is, and or is BIAS.

This goes for Master Primes as well, when LEICA S. Cine Primes get a full side by side comparison I'll let you know if it is still the case or not...


The fact that you can produce a great image with an old camera, and or a new camera with old glass, is a none issue, as of course you can, but if you ahve the best camera and the best glass then you'll make it better, and also there is no question on this.

Now, an other fact is this for you to consider...

You can make a Clean image out of RAW shot with Master Primes, look ANY WAY you want, either by the use of Filters, and or by the use of Post work, but you will NEVER get the clean look of Master Primes with Super Speeds, as they are just too full of Construction and design defects and artifacts that this will not be possible, you can clean the image all you want in post, you will not get it.

Now, to the Alexa...

You same as the BIG DoP's you talk about, could be the same ones I know, are as mislead and deep in a misconception of things is not even funny really, is almost like being Blind Folded and not wanitng to realize that you are... NO JOKE.

Alexa gets its pleasing out of the box image, thanks only to a filter layered and baked with in the OLPF, and while you can achieve its look on the EPIC out of the RAW, you just simply can't EVER get the same clean image out of the Alexa to look like that of the Epic, and yes of course Resolution has lots to do with it.

We can go on and on, but if you don't understand what the internal mechanical parts and elements of each camera, and talk to each of those that chose Alexa vs. Epic for their projects, then you simply are SPECULATING... I DON'T SPECULATE, I talk form experience, and personally having done many of such a tests and spoken to this DoP's and know first hand why they chose Epic or Alexa.

This is why I say what I say... But at the end of the day I do agree with you that if all use the same thing with the same results, it would be pretty boring, but also understand that in the ERA of RAW there is always a MILLION variations that can be achieved from Lighting, Exposing, and use of filters in front of the Glass, never mind what you can do to day via Grading the image in POST...

 

[Luca Immesi]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ry-official-trailer-with-Alejandro-Jodorowsky

 

[Steve G]

[quote


You same as the BIG DoP's you talk about, could be the same ones I know, are as mislead and deep in a misconception of things is not even funny really, is almost like being Blind Folded and not wanitng to realize that you are... NO JOKE.
[/QUOTE]

Really ?


Roger Deakins http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005683/
Robert Richardson. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0724744/
Seamus McGarvey. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0568974/
Ketch Rossi http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3240104/

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Really ?


Roger Deakins http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005683/
Robert Richardson. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0724744/
Seamus McGarvey. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0568974/
Ketch Rossi http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3240104/

The Knowledge of the equipment and the Experience made using some of them are two very different Things... And while I sure have lots to learn and can sure learn a thing or two from any of those guys, So CAN they from me, more then you know...

But I guess before I can argue any of this with you, you would have first to read all that I wrote and also know exactly what choices were made by whom and why before having a say in such matter and comparison...

For now I have my say with words of what I know, soon I'll show you what I know, then you can judge if you like my work or not, till then... I say how I see it and what I know, never saying that I know more then any one else, but surely saying that no matter whom comes form, they can surely be wrong about something, and in the case of Epic vs. Alexa, I know my cameras better then many, and I am not forced to chose one or an other by Studios or Internal Policies, or make up wrong info about it, and neither I am misinformed or mislead, that is the big difference...

 

[Clint Lealos]

And while I sure have lots to learn and can sure learn a thing or two from any of those guys, So CAN they from me, more then you know...

Slow down Ketch. You're getting way way ahead of yourself. You are making yourself a target when you say you can teach Roger Deakins a thing or two about cinematography. Its audacious at best and doesn't reflect kindly on your character even if its true.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Slow down Ketch. You're getting way way ahead of yourself. You are making yourself a target when you say you can teach Roger Deakins a thing or two about cinematography. Its audacious at best and doesn't reflect kindly on your character even if its true.

Read Clint, read, I specifically said about GEAR, either way, with all the respect I have for him and his work, trust me, I sure know EPIC better then He does, and any one has something new to learn, even at the top of their game, and those teaching them a thing or two can sure be some one like me.

 

[Stephen Mick]

Slow down Ketch. You're getting way way ahead of yourself. You are making yourself a target when you say you can teach Roger Deakins a thing or two about cinematography. Its audacious at best and doesn't reflect kindly on your character even if its true.

Seriously. Can we make that quote part of the "favorite Reduser quotes" thread?

 

[Clint Lealos]

Read Clint, read, I specifically said about GEAR, either way, with all the respect I have for him and his work, trust me, I sure know EPIC better then He does, and any one has something new to learn, even at the top of their game, and those teaching them a thing or two can sure be some one like me.

Ketch, some things are just best left un-said. Saying it twice only makes it worse. I've learned that the hard way a million times already Just trust me on this one.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Ketch, some things are just best left un-said. Saying it twice only makes it worse. I've learned that the hard way a million times already Just trust me on this one.

Yes, you are right about that Clint, as no matter what things get still taken out of context against you, especially when you have so little to show as I do in this say, in reference to Body of Work done... So yea... Lets Re-visit this few years from now...

 

[James T Mather]

Wow.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Wow.

Oh, sorry, were you expecting that by been trown few names at I would roll over and say Bau Bau...

 

[James T Mather]

No Ketch. That wasn't it.

I don't want to get into a free for all here so I'm going to refrain from commenting further at this time. I think it's safe to say we see the world very differently and I don't relate to your self-appointed sense of your own expertise in this matter. I wish you luck in your endeavours.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

No Ketch. That wasn't it.

I don't want to get into a free for all here so I'm going to refrain from commenting further at this time. I think it's safe to say we see the world very differently and I don't relate to your self-appointed sense of your own expertise in this matter. I wish you luck in your endeavours.

In that case... MY APOLOGIES James.

I guess I have taken some crap around here lately, such as my decision in the Name of my Movie, and my Megaproject initiative, and have lost a bit of my ways...

However what I mean to say about all that started this discussion, is that I have a formed opinion based on experience wit the Gear, despite what Movies might I have made or not, such knowledge is there, and when I say certain things about the gear I know, it is based on that Knowledge.

I have the greatest respect for each and every single Filmmaker I know and for this I don't, if I like their work, I go see their movies, if not I don't, but I also expect to be given the right to voice my Opinion, especially when I'm basing on FACTS of knowledge wit the GEAR, and especially when some one else's is wrong about it, DESPITE if He happens to be some one that has done great work, this does not excuse the wrong saying about one piece of Gear VS. the other.


By my words, I however also never mean to Offend any one, just also trying not to be put down, in my stand, by Big Names been put in front of me, as no matter how big they are, they sure don't make me a CLOWN, and I either way fill the right to share my opinions about Gear, when asked about it.

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

What's the status of the next part of KETCH ROSSi Brazil RED EPIC workshop? Should we expect 4th video anytime next week or so? I found the past three videos very interesting and I always enjoy you talking about cinema gear and all the related stuff.