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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

John Cordell

Eyeball footage

Eyeball footage

Here's something interesting:

http://www.cordellproductions.com/movies/eyeball.mov

This is a 1280x720 crop from 5k. Shot on Red Pro 17-50 zoom at 50mm. The eyeball was about 4 inches from the lens. (Note that the depth of field is such that the whole eye can't be in focus.) I don't have a macro lens, so I had to crop this footage instead. Epic sensor is incredibly clean.
 
What's interesting to see is how the X and A frames blend kind of additively so in this case on the one frame where the dual exposure method shows a significant difference in positioning between frames the dark shapes disappear very quickly with the addition of the brighter longer exposure stream and the longer blur of the A stream on highlights blends quickly up to the start or end position (depending on how you set the stream blending order) of that highlight in the X stream.

It will be interesting to test this under other types of lighting. High contrast dark scenes with strong highlights vs high key scenes etc. Also to see issues with lighting flicker. I imagine there will be a whole new set of flicker free lighting tables to go with this and all the HDRx™ highlight protection options at each frame-rate. Should be simple enough to calculate but I'm cooking dinner right now!

(NB. I only found one frame in the clip where this looked extreme enough want to explore and only then found it from playing with the balance between the two frames and going frame by frame. I'm surprised at how little of an issue it is given this is the very basic version of HDRx™ processing. Hope you don't mind my form of pixxel peeping at these preliminary stages)

----Edit--- I guess that little point before the evening out with the blend occurs is another reason for Jim's recommendation to shoot for the overexposure you need +1 ?
 
Can you make a compare picture with the eyeball clip? I really like it. Would be nice to see how it compare next to the original 5k clip.
 
I'm also glad to get an update on the menu system improvements. It sounds like it's come a long way with all the gestural controls since I played with it last week at RED Europe.

It's something you scooted over quickly in the initial post but I hope that as the builds progress the deeper menus work their way into an even more intuitive and logical structure according to how camera ops, AC's and such think. I don't mind them being challenging to unfamiliar AC's as it keeps me in their good books when I can save the day and set up things how they want but it is disappointing when people are put off using the camera in favour of others because the interface and menu layout is hard for them to get their heads around.
 
Karl H said:
I disagree, there is still the problem here of highlights on the x-track. Look at the hand, it has a very sharp, and large halo around it as it moves out of frame. While not a big deal on this clip it would obviously cause problems in many situations if this was the focus of the shot.

Seems to me this is blending from the x-track where there is a very sharp high shutter speed on an area with a highlight. However jim has stated that the new magic sauce is intended to deal with this problem, which is why I commented I'd love to see this with the new 'button' applied. HDRx™ is not finished and so I'm looking at the positives of what it could do when this is all bugged out; amazing....but also I wouldn't go as far as saying this clip has perfect motion - the doll looks fine but it's moving bright areas where the problems will arise with basic blends. I think many missed it because it's not the focus of the shot.

For a work in progress though it is very encouraging.
Click to expand...

Disagree on two fronts... that is not a halo. And you don't judge motion HDRx with a still frame.

Jim
 
Before this turns into an HDRx thread and everything is repeated that has already been posted, there are a couple of HDRx threads. Let's take HDRx discussion there and let John have this one back.

Jim

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53711
 
Jim,
About 5 years ago when I first discovered HDR photography I thought, "It wold be great to have this for video/motion, but that will never happen." It has happened and your team did it. Don't let naysayers discourage you at all. HDRx™ is a spectacular technical achievement its own right, in addition to everything else that Epic and Scarlet are. To be able to capture what the eye sees IN MOTION is huge. But you knew that. Just letting you know that many of us know it too. And alpha experiments are worth showing.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw your note.
 
Jannard said:
Disagree on two fronts... that is not a halo. And you don't judge motion HDRx™™™™ with a still frame.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hey Jim,

Im not judging the still, I'm commenting on the motion file you posted. As I say I think it's looking great, I'm just responding to those saying this looks perfect motion. The quicktime mov has strange artifacts around the man's hand. Whether it's a halo or something else - it still looks odd.That's all. I'm sure this will be fixed with a more complex blending technique. Please keep working on it till its nailed because it's going to be amazing :-)
 
OK... last try. Let's move HDRx discussion to one of the other threads. John's posting is getting lost and that isn't what we want here.

Jim
 
Jeney Ákos said:
Can you make a compare picture with the eyeball clip? I really like it. Would be nice to see how it compare next to the original 5k clip.
Click to expand...

Here it is... a single frame 1:1 crop in jpeg form. Note that 5k from this clip doesn't make sense because it would just be a larger frame with a bunch of background. That's why I cropped down to this framing. At some point if I get a lens where I can get the whole eye to cover the full 5k frame I can share that for comparison.

eyeball.jpg
 
Quentin Brown said:
I'm also glad to get an update on the menu system improvements. It sounds like it's come a long way with all the gestural controls since I played with it last week at RED Europe.

It's something you scooted over quickly in the initial post but I hope that as the builds progress the deeper menus work their way into an even more intuitive and logical structure according to how camera ops, AC's and such think. I don't mind them being challenging to unfamiliar AC's as it keeps me in their good books when I can save the day and set up things how they want but it is disappointing when people are put off using the camera in favour of others because the interface and menu layout is hard for them to get their heads around.
Click to expand...

As it sits now I think people will find this way more casually accessible than a Red One ever was. For one thing, the touch interface basically means you don't need to learn or figure out much in the way of navigation. On a Red One you would see a setting, say ISO, and then have to figure out how to get to that setting via the menu system. And there were several buttons that would land you at different points in the menu hierarchy. On the Epic, being able to touch the displayed version of the thing you want to change and have a list of possible values pop up makes the whole thing way more discoverable.

Of course there will still be the need to browse the menu hierarchy for the more arcane things that aren't displayed prominently. But the new Epic system allows that nicely too, either via touch or keys.

I didn't want to drill into too much detail about menu structure itself because I figure its going to be a reasonably fast moving target for a brief while.
 
John Cordell said:
As it sits now I think people will find this way more casually accessible than a Red One ever was. For one thing, the touch interface basically means you don't need to learn or figure out much in the way of navigation. On a Red One you would see a setting, say ISO, and then have to figure out how to get to that setting via the menu system. And there were several buttons that would land you at different points in the menu hierarchy. On the Epic, being able to touch the displayed version of the thing you want to change and have a list of possible values pop up makes the whole thing way more discoverable.
Click to expand...

I love that it's a touch screen. Touch makes things so much easier. Would you mind giving your opinion of the overall feel of the touchscreen? Of course it's not glass, like the iPhone, but does it still have that "solid" feel to it? I'm not a huge fan of touch screens that have too much give. Sorry, I know it's something extremely minor, I'm just curious.
 
Michael Dearworth said:
I love that it's a touch screen. Touch makes things so much easier. Would you mind giving your opinion of the overall feel of the touchscreen? Of course it's not glass, like the iPhone, but does it still have that "solid" feel to it? I'm not a huge fan of touch screens that have too much give. Sorry, I know it's something extremely minor, I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

It is glass, just like an iPhone, but bigger. It's touch sensing is capacitive as well, just like an iPhone, so there's no need to have the screen flex in order to sense pressure.
 
Hi John, not sure if you've tried any other lenses out, but is the touch screen focus working at all? This, apart from HDR it's the other feature I'm very excited about.

Also be interested to see how you get on hand held compared to an R1 in terms of it's ergonomics. (BTW love the eye :-))
 
Karl H said:
Hi John, not sure if you've tried any other lenses out, but is the touch screen focus working at all? This, apart from HDR it's the other feature I'm very excited about.

Also be interested to see how you get on hand held compared to an R1 in terms of it's ergonomics. (BTW love the eye :-))
Click to expand...

I don't have any electronic lenses or a mount that supports them yet, so no report on touch focus yet.

Handheld -- will report back when I get to that.

Eye -- thanks.
 
You all may have noticed a bunch of posts that have been deleted. These EPIC threads are being read by thousands of people. The "omg" and "wtg" posts are part of the spirit of Reduser... but for these threads, the mods are trying to keep the posts as directly info-related as possible so everyone can read the relevant stuff quickly and easily.

But share as much excitement as you want via PMs... : )

Lucas

Lucas Wilson
---------------
VP of Lurking Moderators
3ality Digital
 
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