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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Jim......

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You know, I've always tried to be completely objective with what gear I use, going with the tool that has the right balance of image quality to economy (in terms of price, ease of use, and weight). So for stuff for the web, I'll use a 7D. A Red One, for instance, would look nicer, but not nicer enough to justify the extra weight, price, and time in post. OTOH, for a feature, I'll rent a Red One. Or if budget wasn't as much of a concern, and I was shooting a doc (where there's gonna be a lot of footage, and resolution is less important), I would rent an Alexa.

Not anymore. Even if it's the best tool for the job, I think I'm going to avoid Arri altogether now. As consumers, we vote with our credit cards, and I'll be personally boycotting Arri. I think that's the best way to show not only our support for Jim and Red, but also our demand for integrity in the industry.

Give 'em Hell, Jim.
 
Christian Jadot said:
I know I cannot really ask for details, but looking back somethings make sense. The "philosophy" change[...].
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Would be kind of backwards wouldn't it? The philosophy change was to *stop leaking* intentionally. ;) If you have no secrets... you have nothing that can be leaked.
 
Gavin, there are a few ways we can look at this, perhaps at one point RED felt that their protocol was responsible for certain untimely competitive developments,
only to learn that their openness might not have been the culprit after all.

Even if RED did not, in hindsight, give that much away, they would have had little way of knowing or gauging this, considering the effect that this "espionage" was having on their plans.
And it is this effect on RED's development and business plan that might be at the heart of the matter. And, other illegal intentions aside, I don't think it is a small thing.
 
If any of the information stolen was found on an Arri coporate email server, for any reason, it will be difficult for them to hide behind "they didn't know". Negligence can be just as serious an offense. But I have a feeling things are just getting started. So...for me, no more speculation, just hope Red can stay on track for delivery dates, pretty please.
 
This thread is a little concerning to me....

I'm very much in support of Jim/RED if he has been wronged and legal action is required.... but all this talk of boycotting ARRI and basically going by the rule of "guilty until proved innocent" is worrying.

Let the dust settle, if ARRI were involved in corporate espionage, then they might not have a business for you to boycott. But if this is a one off, a disgruntled ex-employee, then some people here might realise that they are not quite so inline with the idea of democracy and fair justice as they thought.
 
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We have very little to go on as far as determining what was an honest organic progress and what was synthesized by illegal means.
 
Um, he pled guilty. Not for Red, but for Band Pro. We're kinda past the "innocent until proven guilty" stage.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/23/former-arri-exec-pleads-guilty-to-hacking-into-rival-ceos-e-mai/

It occurred to me that Bravin might've been working as a "rogue agent," but if that were true, how could the company make any use of the information he got? And if the company couldn't make use of it, why would he continue for so long?

Jay Birch said:
This thread is a little concerning to me....

I'm very much in support of Jim/RED if he has been wronged and legal action is required.... but all this talk of boycotting ARRI and basically going by the rule of "guilty until proved innocent" is worrying.

Let the dust settle, if ARRI were involved in corporate espionage, then they might not have a business for you to boycott. But if this is a one off, a disgruntled ex-employee, then some people here might realise that they are not quite so inline with the idea of democracy and fair justice as they thought.
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It is really very sad that two companies with such excellent reputations come to blows. Whether Bravin is rogue or not Arri's name is all over this.
 
joshua csehak said:
Um, he pled guilty. Not for Red, but for Band Pro. We're kinda past the "innocent until proven guilty" stage.
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ARRI have not been proved guilty of anything, therefore my point is very valid.

Like I said... if the dust settles and ARRI are found guilty in this, then everything changes and I hope the whole industry is up in arms... but, for now, this is Brevin v Band Pro.... not RED v ARRI.

I just urge caution on the part of some people who are taking this to heart without knowing the full facts.
 
joshua csehak said:
Not anymore. Even if it's the best tool for the job, I think I'm going to avoid Arri altogether now. As consumers, we vote with our credit cards, and I'll be personally boycotting Arri. I think that's the best way to show not only our support for Jim and Red, but also our demand for integrity in the industry.
Click to expand...

Me too. I've never really liked Arri... I just feel like they're trying to slow-roll the industry. 1080p? That's what my $900 GH2 shoots... there's no excuse for the giant mail-box sized Alexa to be shooting such (relatively) low resolution. They're just trying to milk the 1080p market for as long as possible instead of pushing technology to the limits (aka Red)... which is not cool in my book.
 
Okay, I'm with you there -- you have a point. We'll see how the dust settles and what the courts decide. I can't imagine a situation where he did so much espionage for his sole personal use, but we'll wait and see...

Jay Birch said:
ARRI have not been proved guilty of anything, therefore my point is very valid.

Like I said... if the dust settles and ARRI are found guilty in this, then everything changes and I hope the whole industry is up in arms... but, for now, this is Brevin v Band Pro.... not RED v ARRI.

I just urge caution on the part of some people who are taking this to heart without knowing the full facts.
Click to expand...
 
Well, credit where credit is due -- the Alexa 1080p is sharp and crisp with high-fidelity color and great dynamic range -- the gh2 1080p is really more like 720p tops, and still looks bad in comparison. And yes, a Red is much better for big-screen work, but if you know your target is 1080p (like say, a reality show broadcast in HD), the Alexa positioning begins to make sense. Personally, I always thought Arri was super-cool. I've always wanted a IIc just to have. Really beautiful machines. What I hope happens is they oust everyone in the company that had any knowledge of this affair and Arri starts fresh with honest management, and they continue to be a good competitor to Red. But like I said above, we'll wait and see how the dust settles...

Bryce O said:
Me too. I've never really liked Arri... I just feel like they're trying to slow-roll the industry. 1080p? That's what my $900 GH2 shoots... there's no excuse for the giant mail-box sized Alexa to be shooting such (relatively) low resolution. They're just trying to milk the 1080p market for as long as possible instead of pushing technology to the limits (aka Red)... which is not cool in my book.
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I'm not saying ARRI put him on a mission or anything but it's strange. What personal gain would he get from hacking into Jim's and Band Pro's accts? Maybe his own camera company? He must've been feeding the info somewhere. And he just happened to work for ARRI. Why else would Jim say all his time is dedicated to dealing with Bravin and Arri?
 
It's about more than just the IP

It's about more than just the IP

Paulo Kobayashi said:
THIS IS SERIOUS!!!

This guy is definitely selling info. Possibly to companies like Sony, JVC, Canon and any one whiling to pay for it. Look how many big players had come out with 4K solutions at the same time. He certainly had clientele.
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This thing may be about more than competitive IP. It may be bigger than RED. It calls into question every production deal closed (or even NOT closed) in Hollywood over a year and a half. We're talking about millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions of dollars.

When a studio buys into an independent production deal -- and most productions start as independent deals -- the price paid by the studio, or the investment made by the studio, may be related to the production costs. So if Jim cut a deal to supply Epic-Ms at anything other than list price, what was the basis of the deal? If RED lost a production opportunity, was it due to legitimate competitive factors, or was there undue influence? Movie studios are litigious enough in their daily operation -- add in a smidgen of illegality, and they are running for cover.

Discovery for this nightmare will involve unearthing studio bookkeeping that was supposed to be dead and (permanently) buried. Jim and lots of studio executives will be forced to spend days rehashing deals long since completed.

One man's cupidity may well poison Hollywood dealmaking for several years.
 
Yeah, the GH2 shoots exactly like an Alexa. Haven't anybody noticed? Oh boy.
 
joshua csehak said:
Well, credit where credit is due -- the Alexa 1080p is sharp and crisp with high-fidelity color and great dynamic range --...

.... Personally, I always thought Arri was super-cool. I've always wanted a IIc just to have. Really beautiful machines.

What I hope happens is they oust everyone in the company that had any knowledge of this affair and Arri starts fresh with honest management, and they continue to be a good competitor to Red. But like I said above, we'll wait and see how the dust settles...
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If.. BIG IF…ARRI...

... has anything to do with it then that is probably a likely scenario (I agree). Nobody wants to see such a company with such an amazing and long tradition go down in this way? I certainly don’t.

The basic long term honor and tradition of the company far outweighs what a temporary bunch of idiots might have decided in a fit of madness that this was a good “way” to proceed.

So after a while a truce of sorts will be signed, and then maybe everybody gets to feel all touchy feely about what all great “blokes” and women we all really are, and don't we all just want the same thing...?

However, this still does not fix one major problem. This gets back to the idea of how do you “un-ring” a bell? Once the technical ideas have migrated somewhere else what do you do?


OK. So Company B stole know how and IP from Company A. Company A tries to sue as best it can company B. That matter is settled. However Company C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L…dum de dum de dum then decided wouldn’t it be wonderful if we hack, steal and espionage the crucial information from company B. Company B is not going to sue other companies for theft of information that it itself had stolen in the first place. Companys C thru X etc. absolutely know and understand that. That is why the first breach of security is potentially so serious, as after that there is absolutely no way to go after everybody else especially if the know-how was a company trade secret (rather than something that was filled as a successfully granted patent). The other thing is that companies C thru X will also seek put all of those (corrupt) individuals, that have just been fired, to "good" use.

Then you get into a situation where you would have to sue practically everybody on the planet to attempt to reclaim what has now become “common technical knowledge”.

A nasty business…

Eek.

Cheers,

Eric
 
@ERIC

RED PILL

BLUE PILL

How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?

All in due time....


David
 
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