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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Jim, the vast majority of us RED owners are ecstactic about the upgrade offers

One more vote here. Real names please.

Of course, that would mean I would have to change my user name to Brad Pitt, but that's cool with me if people around here have some accountability.
 
Why are you not selling your Red if you are not satisfed?
I don't think Red ever said they did a perfect camera, but for the price they did something less worse than the others :)

And i rarely seen so much motivation, passion, innovation and care behind a product... I'm also concerned by your worries but what they did and try to do now is worth respect. At least i gave mine....

Digital cameras still need time be totally mature, be patient. If you are want to be sure not losing money after one year, don't investigate in technology, put your money in a bank. Hum... well or gold :)

v*
 
Red is in a difficult situation as far as the interpretation of honoring the commitment regarding basic guarantees about Red One is concerned, at least the way people have perceived it to be in the past.

The new product line certainly looks wonderful. I see two type of people here. One, which appear to be more funded, are basically very pleased with the announcement. However, those who do not have that good grasp on finances, see it as a break of their trust. The big guys of course, as always happen, are taking them to be cry babies.

Comments regarding having a similar level of support from other vendors such as Canon, etc., are not applicable, IMHO, as Red delivered a camera that was not fully functional in various senses, including post production. Various updates were provided not as courtesy, but to address the problems resulting from delivering a not fully mature camera.

One thing is clear. With the new announcement Red could have taken a harsher stance and said this is it and deal with it. However, there appears to be an element of still trying to appease the customer base, perhaps, a little bending backwards. It is a difficult situation, and in the best interest of the company, I think there are little options otherwise.
 
Joofa said:
Comments regarding having a similar level of support from other vendors such as Canon, etc., are not applicable, IMHO, as Red delivered a camera that was not fully functional in various senses, including post production. Various updates were provided not as courtesy, but to address the problems resulting from delivering a not fully mature camera.
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You can probably list a whole lot of features that were completely new. The fact that they continuously strive to improve quality and features contrary to reality.

And since you are not a camera owner, please don't speak for us. I was happy as clam with the camera a long time ago and every build is new features and new surpises I never expected would be on the camera. Anamorphic modes, timelapse, 3k, 2k, etc. Even compact flash is a new feature from when I first placed my reservation.
 
Real names please - I'm a big fan on certain other forums I can't mention here.

My bet is it's the last we hear from Ronx.
 
Hey man, Kholi is my real name. =T Brownie Points? Or a 12% credit toward S35 Scarlet?
 
Joofa, how would people who feel RED has broken their trust feel if the RED One sensor upgrade was offered at ~$10k? (Just a guess.) Everyone who could afford to upgrade would have a better camera then them.

I just feel like those people had unreal expectations that RED would offer the Mysterium X upgrade for a couple grand. RED never promised the upgrades would be cheap.
 
Joofa said:
The new product line certainly looks wonderful.... Various updates were provided not as courtesy, but to address the problems resulting from delivering a not fully mature camera....
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The updates (Builds) are a combination of both addressing problems and also of immense creativity and ingenuity delivering many extras free of charge.
 
Obendega said:
Jim, as an owner of 3 RED Ones (and probably more by the time Scarlet and EPIC ship) I want you to know that I am absolutely ecstatic about the upgrade options you have offered us early adopters. I can not imagine any other company in the world offering such a generous upgrade path.

I feel I have to make this post due to the very small percentage of RED One owners how are posting that they feel you have abandoned us. I don't want the few who feel this way to change your vision or your quest to push technology light years ahead of what other companies are currently offering.

Here are the reasons I don't feel abandoned in the least:


  • 1. Accessories: Every owner complaining about their RED One being "obsolete" seems to be ignoring that fact that all of their accessories can be used with Scarlet and EPIC! (Except the RED top mount and CF module.) The accessories I have purchased for my RED bodies come to about $60k per camera. When I trade in a RED body for an EPIC or buy a Scarlet every single one of those accessories is compatible!


  • 2. First in line: RED owners can purchase a Scarlet or Epic before anyone else can. This in itself is huge. We will have the opportunity to rent to non owners wanting to test them out before they buy. We will also be the first to offer clients production with the new Mysterium X sensor.


  • 3. EPIC trade in and 12% Scarlet credit: This is an unprecedented offer. Non owners will have to pay $28,000 for the S35 EPIC and we will get it for $10,000. All of my current accessories will work with it. If I want to keep one of my RED Ones I get $300, $840 or $1,440 off on a Scarlet. That is free money for being an early adopter.


  • 4. Sensor upgrade: If I want to keep a RED One I can upgrade the sensor for a price and get all the benefits of the Mysterium X. This is major upgrade that no other camera company has ever offered. Depending on the cost of this upgrade the $10k retail trade in for an EPIC may be a better deal. The sensor is the major component of the $17,500 body so I would expect the upgrade to cost a good chunk of that. It is possible that for the price of the upgrade you can get a whole new 5k brain that is compatible with all your current RED One accessories. That is just incredible.

  • 5. Progress: The most important thing to me is that RED make the absolute best and most advanced cameras they can. So many products don't see their full potential because companies have to fully support their legacy products as well. If technology has jumped ahead and the RED One body is no longer the best platform to realize those advances, I fully support putting 100% of your resources into the next generation. I bought into the RED brand because they were clearly dedicated to offering technology on the cutting edge packaged in way that their customers needed. I believe the modularity of the EPIC and Scarlet systems is exactly where this industry needed to go and I feel RED has recognized our support and provided us early adopters with generous and unprecedented upgrade paths.

That is all.
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As an owner of multiple RED One camera systems, some of which I've owned and been shooting with for over 14 months now, I 100% agree with you Justin. Couldn't have said it better myself...

I've been real mobile, so I haven't been able to counter the flame and flak here on RED User yesterday and today. In a quick review of the threads of the past two days, I'm stunned by the lack of appreciation expressed by some here for RED's foresight, hard work, and current products and future products. I write some of that off to trolls, FUD, competitive industry plants, chronic whiners, wannabes, and people who simply get off on showboating on online forums. Everyone seems to get real brave behind a keyboard with an anonymous handle.

Some here seem to enjoy the easy tag of fanboy for anyone who is positive about RED products and expresses their appreciation. Well, there is a big difference between being a blind fanboy and being a pioneer who jumps in and incorporates new equipment in their workflow - and if that equipment works well for you there is nothing wrong with expressing your appreciation in public or in private to the manufacturers.

If you have a technical problem with a RED product you own, and are truly interested in getting it solved fast, why not get it solved by the fastest route - by contacting the RED Bomb Squad directly - rather than waste time online dragging your problem through a forum thread? Unless of course your true objective to showboat and embarrass RED.

I definitely agree that real names make people think about the ramifications of what they post. My real name is Gibby and I registered with that on the very first day RED User opened in December 2005. I stand behind my posted opinions and I don't hide behind a cloak of anonymity.

As for the RED One owners whining about supposedly being shortchanged by RED, I'll add my voice to that of Justin, Haakon, Kilgroe, and many other RED One owners here, in fact IMO the huge majority of RED One owners here, in saying that RED has not only treated us very fairly in the upgrade and trade-in paths for Red One, but also the other factors that Justin clearly listed.

I couldn't be happier about RED's announced new product line. It reflects the logical next paradigm of modularity, scalability, and flexibility that drew me to RED clear back in 2005. I will be buying multiple Epic and multiple Scarlet, trading some of my RED One cameras into Epic, but also keeping at least one of them (RED #8) - because it is an unbelievably cool and potent camera.

I support real names and real accountability for what everyone posts here.
 
I agree with Obendega completely. I bought a second Red One body last week. Our first Red body has worked almost without a glitch and the workflows are working out too. The trade-in and upgrade paths to the new systems seem extraordinarily generous to me.

I just sold a HDX900 to finance the second Red and guess what? I took a loss because it was a year or so old. That’s the way of the world.

If I want into the new Epic camera systems, I get a real break on the price and place in the front of the line. If I don’t the Red One continues to be a superior camera.

And I cannot say enough good thing’s about Red’s customer service and the basic corporate personality as I have experienced it.

So my vote goes with Obendega.

Rob Gardner (my real name)
 
Jarred Land said:
Ronx.. if you post an inline 4k image, it screws up people's browsers. Not cool.

As for the issues you are having, who did you speak to at RED via tech support on this so i can look into it?
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Yes. Its been suggested I send it back to Red HQ, but I've asked if it will be possible to get it looked at at the european service center at a later date, so I don't have to lose the clients I have right now. No response yet. Never got two answers from two questions in any email I've made to Red, should have split them.
The hassle of re-exporting from the UK is a major pain in the ass, and if the camera needed to be replaced (which Nate assured me is rare), I'm hit with $3060 of uk value added tax during re-import (even if the replacement is under warranty and free, don't ask me how that helps the UK!).
Anyway, its coming back, but not till my current "understanding" client is done with the camera (after the weekend), and I can be sure I've filled out the myriad of forms. It'll mean kissing goodbye to seven already booked jobs.
I've been slow getting on top of all this because of several family health problems/operations in the last six months.
All i want is happy unstressed clients. I'm sick of worried clients and having to defend the camera. Its draining, I already got worries, necessary ones..
I hope there's a fault with my individual camera and not a codec issue cos the brain ain't upgradeable, and that worries me too.
It all still feels very beta, and that fact alone, and that statement, is one I've heard from most of my clients so far who've used, or taken a look at my camera. The first new camera from Red that removes reliability problems, performance issues, and all that worry, from my clients brains (and mine) will render the R1 obselete.
 
Deanan said:
Real names would be great for reduser as it would make for more responsible and curteous posting. You'll notice that those that post with their real names are usually the most helpful posts.
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Please do this! Everyone should take responsibility for themselves here as it is a professional forum (well, most of the time:-)
There is no need for anyone to hide behind a "code name" unless of course it is there business name.
 
ronx said:
Yes. Its been suggested I send it back to Red HQ, but I've asked if it will be possible to get it looked at at the european service center at a later date, so I don't have to lose the clients I have right now. No response yet. Never got two answers from two questions in any email I've made to Red, should have split them.
The hassle of re-exporting from the UK is a major pain in the ass, and if the camera needed to be replaced (which Nate assured me is rare), I'm hit with $3060 of uk value added tax during re-import (even if the replacement is under warranty and free, don't ask me how that helps the UK!).
Anyway, its coming back, but not till my current "understanding" client is done with the camera (after the weekend), and I can be sure I've filled out the myriad of forms. It'll mean kissing goodbye to seven already booked jobs.
I've been slow getting on top of all this because of several family health problems/operations in the last six months.
All i want is happy unstressed clients. I'm sick of worried clients and having to defend the camera. Its draining, I already got worries, necessary ones..
I hope there's a fault with my individual camera and not a codec issue cos the brain ain't upgradeable, and that worries me too.
It all still feels very beta, and that fact alone, and that statement, is one I've heard from most of my clients so far who've used, or taken a look at my camera. The first new camera from Red that removes reliability problems, performance issues, and all that worry, from my clients brains (and mine) will render the R1 obselete.
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You must specify to custom that it is a temporary export for repair of a product under warranty.
fedex will charge you a couple 100 pounds to fill the forms for ya.

Emmanuel
 
beneditor said:
Real names please - I'm a big fan on certain other forums I can't mention here.

My bet is it's the last we hear from Ronx.
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My serial number is 1912, whats yours Ben? Full name? And who you betting with, your friends? And the reasoning/purpose/psychology behind that most interesting and informative post is..? Didn't like what i said? Oh, how interesting, thanks for contributing.. :calm:
 
Emmanuel Cambier said:
You must specify to custom that it is a temporary export for repair of a product under warranty.
fedex will charge you a couple 100 pounds to fill the forms for ya.

Emmanuel
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Thanks, I was about to investigate any possible Fedex-do-it-for-you options last week, then my fathers new hip replacement fractured and I got distracted, but I'll look into it again after Monday.

Fedex had told me to fill in two forms. Uk customs gave me three more to do that Fedex didn't know about. Then I got nervous about the whole ordeal.

UK customs can charge full VAT, even on cameras that are replaced under warranty. VAT is not charged if a camera under warranty is only repaired though. I can point you to the appropriate notices if you wish.
 
ronx said:
UK customs can charge full VAT, even on cameras that are replaced under warranty. VAT is not charged if a camera under warranty is only repaired though. I can point you to the appropriate notices if you wish.
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dont you get back the
vat ?
 
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