Jarred Tease 8.30.2021

[Christoffer Glans]

Ursa 12K also does 8K 120fps full sensor.

Then it's not really RAW. If the sensor is 12K, it is 12K. Any change in resolution but using the full sensor means it processes the image, i.e not RAW.

So the new DSMC3 monitor is not compatible with Komodo. Bummer. I'd hope theyre planning on giving us some sort of proper control on the Komodo...

That is really bad. If they just abandoned Komodo and just keeps focusing on Raptor, that's gonna anger a lot of people. Komodo is not finished and I hope they don't ignore Komodo by drowning it in the noise of this camera.

 

[Phil Holland]

That is really bad. If they just abandoned Komodo and just keeps focusing on Raptor, that's gonna anger a lot of people. Komodo is not finished and I hope they don't ignore Komodo by drowning it in the noise of this camera.

Curious what you mean by Komodo not being finished?

 

[Mike P.]

If the Komodo ST was ~13% more than the regular, maybe this will be closer to ~$20k for the regular version?

Kind of a bummer that you still have to lower compression for higher FPS and it still needs to crop (pretty sure BMD12k can do all it's framerates/resolutions at 5:1/Q0 and it uses slower media).

No word on AF? Did they plug a Monstro (which doesn't have PDAF) into a DSMC3 body and use an RF mount?

 

[Rodrigo Prata]

Then it's not really RAW. If the sensor is 12K, it is 12K. Any change in resolution but using the full sensor means it processes the image, i.e not RAW.

No, it can still be raw if it's line skipped.

 

[Ruben Stuveling]

Then it's not really RAW. If the sensor is 12K, it is 12K. Any change in resolution but using the full sensor means it processes the image, i.e not RAW.

Ursa 12K uses a full RGB sensor instead of bayer pattern. So they can just use less pixels to create the full sensor 8K image. So no downsampling or line skipping etc needed.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Then it's not really RAW. If the sensor is 12K, it is 12K. Any change in resolution but using the full sensor means it processes the image, i.e not RAW.

Not sure if that is true because of the way the BMD 12K sensor is made - but AFAIK it's BRAW is pretty flexible i.e. "raw enough". People have argued in the past that compressed raw isn't really raw and not sure how raw the current new flavors are as well. These days if any of the major players' "RAW" does not allow enough manipulation of a particular image it probably wasn't shot very well to begin with.

I was speculating for lower price point but given the DR, and Frame rate specs it is a fairly priced camera. Just not sure at that price over my cheap R5 FF cam I'm ready to "dive in" (pun intended) until COVID eases up.

Ursa 12K uses a full RGB sensor instead of bayer pattern. So they can just use less pixels to create the full sensor 8K image. So no downsampling or line skipping etc needed.

what he said...

 

[Rakesh Malik]

Then it's not really RAW. If the sensor is 12K, it is 12K. Any change in resolution but using the full sensor means it processes the image, i.e not RAW.

It really is raw. BMD designed the sensor to build the scaling into the acquisition phase; that's one of the biggest though least recognized features of that 12K camera.

 

[william howell]

I guess all the questions will be answered on the live stream, but it looks like they basically took the best aspects of the Gemini, Monstro, and Komodo... and used them to design the perfect camera. Not gonna lie... I'd buy it if we had the funds..

Given the beating they've taken over the last few years with Hydrogen, JinniMag, and Komodo SDI issues though I imagine the pressure for the company to deliver on this camera is insanely over the top. MegaCorps like Sony and Canon have the luxury to release a camera that overheats, isn't as awesome as they say it is, is noisier than expected etc...... RED just doesn't have that luxury in today's marketplace.

I am impressed, and truly hope this is a homerun for the company... because.. one day, we'll be able to afford it on the used market...

 

[Ryan Sheets]

PL Mount Possibilities for Future?

PL Mount Possibilities for Future?

I find the seemingly lack of mount choices frustrating. Perhaps they will talk about mount options for the future?

 

[Mike P.]

Even if that was true, it still has more R and B information than CMOS/Bayer, which is arguably better.

Also, don't forget that uncompressed/less compressed is actually more important than raw (re: yedlin). Raw is merely unprocessed, which makes it easier for the camera to capture (as it literally doesn't need to have as much horsepower/throughput to do the RGB conversion internally). And like I said before, BMD12k can do all it's resolutions/framerates at it's lowest 5:1/Q0 compression ratio (whereas even Raptop needs to drop to LQ to do 120fps 8K.)

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Curious what you mean by Komodo not being finished?

We still have beta functions that haven't been finished, like AF. We still don't have any variable framerates outside of fixed standards. And we still only have either the SDI monitoring that could easily be broken or Komodo Link that has massive drops and stutters. I mean, a crash cam that can't do 22 fps to undercrank action? It's not finished and Red's dropped all active communication with people asking questions on this forum.

Like, the new monitor I would have hoped could work with both Raptor and Komodo, but no. And mentioning that we can absolutely have a Red monitor that's driven by BP batteries to wrap up Komodo as a full basic camera package seems to go by deaf ears.

No, it can still be raw if it's line skipped.

Ursa 12K uses a full RGB sensor instead of bayer pattern. So they can just use less pixels to create the full sensor 8K image. So no downsampling or line skipping etc needed.

I stand corrected.

 

[Rakesh Malik]

I guess all the questions will be answered on the live stream, but it looks like they basically took the best aspects of the Gemini, Monstro, and Komodo... and used them to design the perfect camera. Not gonna lie... I'd buy it if we had the funds..

This might be what convinces me to sell/trade my Epic-W, if Red's doing that... though I'll wait for the general availability version. Not that I have any issues with the stormtrooper models, just that they usually carry higher price tags than the general version, and I'm not in a hurry.

Given the beating they've taken over the last few years with Hydrogen, JinniMag, and Komodo SDI issues though I imagine the pressure for the company to deliver on this camera is insanely over the top. MegaCorps like Sony and Canon have the luxury to release a camera that overheats, isn't as awesome as they say it is, is noisier than expected etc...... RED just doesn't have that luxury in today's marketplace.

I am impressed, and truly hope this is a homerun for the company... because.. one day, we'll be able to afford it on the used market...

Sometimes I think a lot of people don't realize how small a company Red really is. It's small even compared to Black Magic; BMD has had SINGLE sales of 30,000 units at a time, which is probably more cameras than Red could make (let alone sell) in a year. Red just isn't a volume manufacturer.

 

[william howell]

I thought so too, until we received our Komodo. RF mount allows you to adapt nearly every lens ever produced onto the camera... except for E mount lenses (and a few other mounts).. BUT.. Given RED and Sony's legal history, it's not surprising that they would leave Sony lenses out of the equation.

The possibilities with the RF mount are pretty stunning.

I find the seemingly lack of mount choices frustrating. Perhaps they will talk about mount options for the future?

 

[Rakesh Malik]

I thought so too, until we received our Komodo. RF mount allows you to adapt nearly every lens ever produced onto the camera... except for E mount lenses (and a few other mounts).. BUT.. Given RED and Sony's legal history, it's not surprising that they would leave Sony lenses out of the equation.

The possibilities with the RF mount are pretty stunning.

Adapters like the DZO Octopus are great options... and the Revolva, the Breakthrough adapters. And long term I'm probably going to end up with a few additional RF mount lenses for travel, due to the size savings.

 

[william howell]

I hear you Rakesh. We basically slapped RF to EF adapter with Variable ND filters on the camera and just use EF mount glass on it... There are super interesting RF lenses coming out, but having ND at your fingertips makes run and gunning soooo much easier.

Adapters like the DZO Octopus are great options... and the Revolva, the Breakthrough adapters. And long term I'm probably going to end up with a few additional RF mount lenses for travel, due to the size savings.

 

[AndreasOberg]

Lots of cool things
+++ Higher FPS in 8k. Awesome, much needed. We always film in 8k but 60fps is a bit low
++ Improved dynamic range. I guess no dual ISO, but any improvement is good. Hope its better in the dark!
++ No more mini mags. Great
+ RF mount. Good, not so happy about not having PL though
+ Wireless video. This is awesome if the range is good
+- Cool with large sensor but many of our lenses like Canon CN20x50 is S35 and we use it for everything. Not so happy about going to 6k for S35.

- I like to film with dual Vmount connected. Not sure a dual vmount adapter would fit with details to the right.

? Hopefully you can zoom in while recording to see focus? It has 4k out, so a smallHD monitor could zoom at least
? Does it have a focus sensor
? Wonder what battery time is like. Less power use would be great
? Fan noise

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Many high end camera crews are going to give any mount adaptor solution some serious side-eye. Perhaps high spec titanium RF-PL adapters will prove precise enough, Komodo certainly jump started the premium RF-PL market. Look forward to seeing the physical construction of the fixed RF mount on the V-Raptor.

Cheers - #19

EDIT: On the Raptor thread Jarred noted that the locking RF mount is extremely robust.

 

[Rakesh Malik]

I hear you Rakesh. We basically slapped RF to EF adapter with Variable ND filters on the camera and just use EF mount glass on it... There are super interesting RF lenses coming out, but having ND at your fingertips makes run and gunning soooo much easier.

That was what lead me to getting a RevoRing. Though I can't use it on either my DZO zoom (too big) or on my one current RF lens (also too big). Figures...

I ordered a Breakthrough adapter before moving to BC, but it hasn't shipped yet... sigh.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I don’t understand the “ Integrated V-Lock battery interface optimized for Micro V-Lock Batteries”
Will the mount be too slick to support any vmount batteries?

 

[william howell]

You know... something to consider... The V-Raptor can shoot 4k 300fps... the FreeFly Wave can shoot 4k at 422fps...

Any organization that was seriously looking into the Freefly wave might now consider taking the 11k they were going to fork over for the Wave and put it towards the Raptor, which would theoretically bring the Raptor cost down to 13k. You get two cameras in one... well.. not really... but.. I could see someone purchasing the V-Raptor with this mentality. And chances are, if the camera isn't vaporware, they'd be totally content with their purchase.