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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

James Mathers (Digital Cinema Society): RED Epic for Sale? Interesting article.

yeah. that is a minor piece of what I was requesting. go back and read James Mather's paragraph....I want RED to be able to do what the C500/Aja combo does - and what the BlackMagic 4K camera does. That thing that Michael Conti mentioned in his "pay attention to new tech" video. That.

RED is losing to camera's with greater functionality, there's still time to catch up. The window won't be open for long....
 
don't we all? :-)
But Red stopped developing a proxy module because, IIRC, they realised that the market was already doing it better, or was about to.
These days I'm finding that, with the GPU SDK out and being implemented in software like Premiere and Resolve, the RAW issue is no longer really a problem. Computing power is catching up with our needs and eventually so will post houses.
 
I have several cameras for corporate/tv projects. I risked renting out my camera and it has brought in enough money to reassure me it was a good investment. Sure, I hate the fact that I don't know if there might be some hidden damage. But there was no other way around it. Now I feel I have this great machine I can use in my projects, big or small, at my whim. If I just "feel like it" I grab my Epic and use it on the smallest of budgets. I also feel that I have a high end camera that will last me for many years (knock on wood), the specs are way over my local TV standards that I can not really see it becoming obsolete.
 
I own a RED and I am pretty happy with the experience.

At the same time, as long as RED critics are polite and well-spoken, I see no reason to attack them.
Let everyone talk and express their opinion.

Let Mr. Anderson speak his mind.
I am also totally surprised at Bjorn's suggestion to have RED refuse service to one of its customers (James Mathers).

Let's all be gentlemen. Is it so hard?
 
For quick turnarounds, a proxy module (or 3rd party device) that could handle SLOWMO would be ideal. Right now I don't believe there's any solution that can handle this, right? (short of playing back clips and recording playback, but on jobs with quick turnarounds, there may not always be time for this)...
 
Shane Kelly said:
How many times has that been said on reduser?
Click to expand...

Moreover, why do people always seem to think they should dictate other people's workflows.

Buying machines with processing power is very expensive, for one thing, and for another, most larger projects are tied to 3rd-party editors who have their own workflows that you don't get to dictate.

If recording straight to 4K 4:4:4 Pro Res was not a desireable option, I don't think you would see the guru of the digital ecosystem endorsing it....RED has listened to Michael Cioni very closely on many things. They should be listening now.
 
Shane Kelly said:
How many times has that been said on reduser?
Click to expand...

Ninety two thousand four hundred and twenty six.



If we add "Moore's Law" suggesting the same notion, that would be...
/processing/

one hundred fifty seven thousand eight hundred and ninety eight.



Hopefully next resolution bump for S35 motion imaging is not scheduled any time soon.
 
That's funny, but such is the world of technology right? If we want to run with the Red dogs we have to be ready for life on the bleeding edge, where nothing is quite good enough and everything changes... Quickly.

If the pace is too much for people I hear that innovations in HDV aren't coming too quickly these days. ;-)


Hrvoje Simic said:
Ninety two thousand four hundred and twenty six.



If we add "Moore's Law" suggesting the same notion, that would be...
/processing/

one hundred fifty seven thousand eight hundred and ninety eight.



Hopefully next resolution bump for S35 motion imaging is not scheduled any time soon.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Crawley said:
That's funny, but such is the world of technology right? If we want to run with the Red dogs we have to be ready for life on the bleeding edge, where nothing is quite good enough and everything changes... Quickly.

If the pace is too much for people I hear that innovations in HDV aren't coming too quickly these days. ;-)
Click to expand...

Did you even read James's post? Seems your just needing to heard. Its message as exactly the opposite of you post!! He wants his Dragon, and its the rollout from "REDdogs" that has him waiting and frustrated.
 
sergio arguello said:
Did you even read James's post? Seems your just needing to heard. Its message as exactly the opposite of you post!! He wants his Dragon, and its the rollout from "REDdogs" that has him waiting and frustrated.
Click to expand...

I'm not speaking to James's post. I quoted Hrvoje, who was responding to Mr. Kelley and so on. Did I misunderstand them?

Why the personal thing anyway? If you have a problem with me personally I'll take a PM if you can be civil about it.

Edit: Incidentally, I am interested to add to the conversation if I can, and that can only happen if someone hears. If you are not one of those Sergio, it is fine with me.
 
Last edited:
Reply from James Mathers

Reply from James Mathers

I’m pleased, and a bit surprised, that my little essay has sparked this dialogue. A lot of good points have been made, but perhaps I should chime in here about any controversy. First, let me thank those who offered kind words and encouragement; it is always greatly appreciated. Secondly, for those who think I’ve gone negative on RED, please let me clarify. I’m still a big fan of the technology and have tremendous admiration for the people behind it.

I can see, however, as Brian Kobylarz pointed out, that taking my essay out of the context of my many years covering these topics, it could be misinterpreted. I’ve been writing about this stuff monthly since the start of the Digital Cinema Society, (which will be 11 years come this NAB). For those who are not familiar, it is a nonprofit educational group that tries to help Filmmakers keep up with new technology, and objectivity is crucial to our mission.

Probably the reason I got to be known as a “RED Guy” in the first place was due as much to the cameras I owned as to my evangelism about the technology. RED got so much right, and are deserving of much credit and gratitude; everything from the concept of 4K compressed RAW, bringing the modular form factor to electronic cameras, and especially for figuring out how to make the tools more affordable.

On the other hand, where I have a suggestion for improvement, I’m not shy about offering it. As you can glean from my essay, and many that proceeded it, I’m not a fan of increasing sensor size much past S35, and I do wish they could offer a high quality recording option in addition to RAW. Whether internally recorded or just giving us the outputs to use 3rd party recorders, it would greatly add to the versatility of the camera. I do mostly Indie features, and the Epic is really a perfect tool for that application. However, these days I need to do a lot of other kinds of work between movies to keep things afloat. No one camera is going to be right for every job, but it would be nice if the camera I own could serve as many of these various needs as possible.

Through my history running DCS, I have developed close relationships with most of the camera manufacturers and they all come to me to seek my input toward their future camera designs. My one big complaint about RED is that they don’t seem to want to hear it. Case in point, as some of you may recall, when they were deciding who to allow to buy the early Epic “M” cameras, I posted that I would be eager to again serve in the capacity of Early Adopter as I did with RED One #30. Mr. Jannard immediately posted, seemingly in reply, that they were only looking for people that would give them “good feedback”. It did hurt my feelings a bit, but I got over it, and eventually got an “M”, (#631, the same one that is now sitting out of commission at RED waiting for the Dragon upgrade).

I guess I’m a little disappointed that I haven’t been able to thus far get the Dragon upgrade, but that doesn’t mean I’m anti-RED. On the contrary, I love their cameras, and if I can afford it, want to continue to have the latest and greatest. In spite of any frustrations I currently have with RED, I hope to continue to be a positive force in the RED community. Certainly no disrespect meant to the company, and if it came off that way I hope they will please accept my sincere apologies. It’s tricky business these days for a Cinematographer investing in gear, and I was just sharing my thought process as I ponder my next moves.

James Mathers
Cinematographer
President of DCS
 
Scott Crawley said:
I'm not speaking to James's post. I quoted Hrvoje, who was responding to Mr. Kelley and so on. Did I misunderstand them?

Why the personal thing anyway? If you have a problem with me personally I'll take a PM if you can be civil about it.

Edit: Incidentally, I am interested to add to the conversation if I can, and that can only happen if someone hears. If you are not one of those Sergio, it is fine with me.
Click to expand...

I have zero problem with you personally,Although I didnt take kindly to the derailing of a thread that I deem fairly important, and in the hopes of it getting back to Jarred,Brent,Kelly, etc... would hope that you could not turn it into a personal venue for joviality. apoligies if you got your feelings hurt.
 
James Mathers said:
I’m pleased, and a bit surprised, that my little essay has sparked this dialogue. A lot of good points have been made, but perhaps I should chime in here about any controversy. First, let me thank those who offered kind words and encouragement; it is always greatly appreciated. Secondly, for those who think I’ve gone negative on RED, please let me clarify. I’m still a big fan of the technology and have tremendous admiration for the people behind it.

I can see, however, as Brian Kobylarz pointed out, that taking my essay out of the context of my many years covering these topics, it could be misinterpreted. I’ve been writing about this stuff monthly since the start of the Digital Cinema Society, (which will be 11 years come this NAB). For those who are not familiar, it is a nonprofit educational group that tries to help Filmmakers keep up with new technology, and objectivity is crucial to our mission.

Probably the reason I got to be known as a “RED Guy” in the first place was due as much to the cameras I owned as to my evangelism about the technology. RED got so much right, and are deserving of much credit and gratitude; everything from the concept of 4K compressed RAW, bringing the modular form factor to electronic cameras, and especially for figuring out how to make the tools more affordable.

On the other hand, where I have a suggestion for improvement, I’m not shy about offering it. As you can glean from my essay, and many that proceeded it, I’m not a fan of increasing sensor size much past S35, and I do wish they could offer a high quality recording option in addition to RAW. Whether internally recorded or just giving us the outputs to use 3rd party recorders, it would greatly add to the versatility of the camera. I do mostly Indie features, and the Epic is really a perfect tool for that application. However, these days I need to do a lot of other kinds of work between movies to keep things afloat. No one camera is going to be right for every job, but it would be nice if the camera I own could serve as many of these various needs as possible.

Through my history running DCS, I have developed close relationships with most of the camera manufacturers and they all come to me to seek my input toward their future camera designs. My one big complaint about RED is that they don’t seem to want to hear it. Case in point, as some of you may recall, when they were deciding who to allow to buy the early Epic “M” cameras, I posted that I would be eager to again serve in the capacity of Early Adopter as I did with RED One #30. Mr. Jannard immediately posted, seemingly in reply, that they were only looking for people that would give them “good feedback”. It did hurt my feelings a bit, but I got over it, and eventually got an “M”, (#631, the same one that is now sitting out of commission at RED waiting for the Dragon upgrade).

I guess I’m a little disappointed that I haven’t been able to thus far get the Dragon upgrade, but that doesn’t mean I’m anti-RED. On the contrary, I love their cameras, and if I can afford it, want to continue to have the latest and greatest. In spite of any frustrations I currently have with RED, I hope to continue to be a positive force in the RED community. Certainly no disrespect meant to the company, and if it came off that way I hope they will please accept my sincere apologies. It’s tricky business these days for a Cinematographer investing in gear, and I was just sharing my thought process as I ponder my next moves.

James Mathers
Cinematographer
President of DCS
Click to expand...

Mr Mathers, so happy to see your voice added to the conversation. You're classy and level headed tone speaks volumes to your character. Hope you get your Dragon soon!!
 
Last edited:
sergio arguello said:
I have zero problem with you personally,Although I didnt take kindly to the derailing of a thread that I deem fairly important, and in the hopes of it getting back to Jarred,Brent,Kelly, etc... would hope that you could not turn it into a personal venue for joviality. apoligies if you got your feelings hurt.
Click to expand...

No apology is necessary, though I thank you for offering it. I do get caught up in tangents sometimes. If this small side remark is equivalent to derailing the thread, or if my sense of humor offends you then I likewise apologize. Just don't ask me to be unhappy. :-)

Edit: I do empathize though. A year is a long time.
 
Last edited:
James Mathers said:
I’m pleased, and a bit surprised, that my little essay has sparked this dialogue. A lot of good points have been made, but perhaps I should chime in here about any controversy. First, let me thank those who offered kind words and encouragement; it is always greatly appreciated. Secondly, for those who think I’ve gone negative on RED, please let me clarify. I’m still a big fan of the technology and have tremendous admiration for the people behind it.

I can see, however, as Brian Kobylarz pointed out, that taking my essay out of the context of my many years covering these topics, it could be misinterpreted. I’ve been writing about this stuff monthly since the start of the Digital Cinema Society, (which will be 11 years come this NAB). For those who are not familiar, it is a nonprofit educational group that tries to help Filmmakers keep up with new technology, and objectivity is crucial to our mission.

Probably the reason I got to be known as a “RED Guy” in the first place was due as much to the cameras I owned as to my evangelism about the technology. RED got so much right, and are deserving of much credit and gratitude; everything from the concept of 4K compressed RAW, bringing the modular form factor to electronic cameras, and especially for figuring out how to make the tools more affordable.

On the other hand, where I have a suggestion for improvement, I’m not shy about offering it. As you can glean from my essay, and many that proceeded it, I’m not a fan of increasing sensor size much past S35, and I do wish they could offer a high quality recording option in addition to RAW. Whether internally recorded or just giving us the outputs to use 3rd party recorders, it would greatly add to the versatility of the camera. I do mostly Indie features, and the Epic is really a perfect tool for that application. However, these days I need to do a lot of other kinds of work between movies to keep things afloat. No one camera is going to be right for every job, but it would be nice if the camera I own could serve as many of these various needs as possible.

Through my history running DCS, I have developed close relationships with most of the camera manufacturers and they all come to me to seek my input toward their future camera designs. My one big complaint about RED is that they don’t seem to want to hear it. Case in point, as some of you may recall, when they were deciding who to allow to buy the early Epic “M” cameras, I posted that I would be eager to again serve in the capacity of Early Adopter as I did with RED One #30. Mr. Jannard immediately posted, seemingly in reply, that they were only looking for people that would give them “good feedback”. It did hurt my feelings a bit, but I got over it, and eventually got an “M”, (#631, the same one that is now sitting out of commission at RED waiting for the Dragon upgrade).

I guess I’m a little disappointed that I haven’t been able to thus far get the Dragon upgrade, but that doesn’t mean I’m anti-RED. On the contrary, I love their cameras, and if I can afford it, want to continue to have the latest and greatest. In spite of any frustrations I currently have with RED, I hope to continue to be a positive force in the RED community. Certainly no disrespect meant to the company, and if it came off that way I hope they will please accept my sincere apologies. It’s tricky business these days for a Cinematographer investing in gear, and I was just sharing my thought process as I ponder my next moves.

James Mathers
Cinematographer
President of DCS
Click to expand...

Although I hear your points in general, I think the too large sensor issue you bring up is a bit silly - just shoot at 5K or 5.5K and any lenses will have you covered, and you're still recording a ton of resolution, in fact more pixel density per field of view than any other camera. I don't understand why that would be a problem for you or anyone. The larger 6K size is only for those lenses that allow it. It's an option, not a forced mandate, and you can switch to a smaller crop at any time within seconds, and for all intensive purposes pretend the option isn't there.
 
Hi Robert,
Your point is well taken, and I don't want to be a whinger, but I have a large investment in glass, and some of my legacy lenses, although still very useful otherwise, cannot cover more than S35 without vignetting. Also, I don't appreciate paying for a bigger sensor than I can use. The Dragon does sound, however, like it will have other benefits besides more resolution, so perhaps I'll be content at 4K. I'm eager to test it.

James Mathers
Cinematographer
President of DCS
 
James Mathers said:
Hi Robert,
Your point is well taken, and I don't want to be a whinger, but I have a large investment in glass, and some of my legacy lenses, although still very useful otherwise, cannot cover more than S35 without vignetting. Also, I don't appreciate paying for a bigger sensor than I can use. The Dragon does sound, however, like it will have other benefits besides more resolution, so perhaps I'll be content at 4K. I'm eager to test it.

James Mathers
Cinematographer
President of DCS
Click to expand...

James you can shoot 5K Dragon with all your legacy glass (Dragon 5K coverage is similar to Epic MX 4k, ie S35), and many would cover 5.5K. Also many legacy lenses start to cover 6K once focal lengths get longer, so coverage is often more of an issue on wider end.

For example, Super Speeds cover 6K Dragon from 25mm up. Only 18mm doesn't fully cover. Ultrapimes have superb coverage, only the 16mm slightly vignettes. Standard Primes suffer more though. But even then from 24mm up all cover 5.5K (and 50mm onwards cover 6K).

best.
 
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