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I've Decoded Jinnitech's "How to" video on Third Party Media

Isaac Cannon

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As you guys are probably aware, but if not: Jinnitech is a youtuber who has reversed engineered how a RED Camera interacts with it's proprietary media. He's "made" third party media and sold for a cheaper price than typical RED cost for a very short period of time before it got shut down. After that He's taken steps and made a video(s) explaining his knowledge about how third party media is actually possible. But the information in his videos are almost encrypted inside a "steep knowledge curve of computer vocab/language" as people seem to take it. Jinnitech published the video(s), but he doesn't actually "tell" the audience how he's gotten around. This is where we stand here.


I've watched Jinnitech's video on the red mini-mags about 4 times now and I'm starting to understand it! I scrolled through all of the comments and so many people are asking for a straight forward video on how to do it. But in reality, Jinnitech already showed us (almost) exactly how to do it!. That's the thing I've also been noticing, most people are just waiting for others to do it for them, even though the information has been out there all along. Experiment you guys!

The first 1/2 ish of Jinnitech's video is just Jinnitech talking about what's going on, and people think he's doing something in this part that's important to the guide. But he's not. Only explaining. He then goes over what a S.M.A.R.T Log is and what it does around the 1/2 mark. My understanding of his explanation is: All that RED does to create a "proprietary" piece of media, is manipulate 2 log lines line the S.M.A.R.T log.


So we all know RED cameras checks to see if the media that was plugged into the camera is actually certified RED media. The things that Jinnitech points out that the camera is checking for are:

1. The SSD model number. RED has a list of whitelisted SSD models. So any that aren't on that list, the camera will not recognize it as its own, so you won't be able to utilize the camera's full potential.
2. S.M.A.R.T Log (Log90h) (if the Mini-mag has a capacity of 480gb or 960gb, then the checking occurs at Log91h). According the Jinnitech, RED inserted the scrambled serial number of the SSD into the Log for just another layer of "security". And again, if the S.M.A.R.T log doesn't match with the whitelisted SSD's info, then the camera won't read it as its own.

(The reason the camera would check Log91h instead of Log90h is because the 480gb and 960gb SSDs were released after 2017, and I guess they changed the location of the scrambled serial number for some reason)
Pre 2017 media: RED Mini-mag 120gb, 240gb, 512gb, 1T
Post 2017 media: RED Mini-mag 480gb, 960gb

These are the only two pieces of information about the media of which the camera reads for verification (SSD model number and S.M.A.R.T Log). THEY BOTH NEED TO MATCH IN ORDER FOR VERIFICATION. (I'm not sure if every RED camera has this method of verification, but I think it's safe to assume so)



Note: I do not own a RED camera, therefore I cannot test this theory, but please test this out! Take some time to help people who cannot afford RED media!

Another Note: At the end of the video, Jinnitech notes that Cfast is also SATA, (I’m not sure what type of Cfast, but I think he was referring to the RED One Compact Flash, but maybe others work too) In this case, you should be able to use third party Cfast using the same technique (for S.M.A.R.T log, probably look at Log90h since it should be older than 2017)



Conclusion: To use third party mSATA SSDs, you need to copy the model number, and Log90h (Log91h if 480gb or 960gb) (from the S.M.A.R.T Log) from the certified RED SSD onto the third party SSD. I have no knowledge about specific software or adapters to break into the S.M.A.R.T log (maybe you don't need a different adapter, but that's what I've heard). Experiment! (Look it up)

Now please, for everyone who sees this, who has a RED camera, a RED Mini-mag/Cfast card, and a spare mSATA/Cfast (or even just buy an mSATA (they are so cheap)). Experiment! Copy the model number, find software to break into the S.M.A.R.T Log, and copy the Log info. Share your process for everyone, comment about what you did and be specific with how you did it for others! Make some posts too. Good luck!
 
Let’s just say it’s in the making and on final testing. Will be working for RED One CF or RedMag 1.8 both via Sata, DSMC1 (Redmag 1.8 and Mini Mag Version) and DSMC2.

Since jinni used the same exact ssds that RED sold, he didn’t know that there are more checkmarks for an ssd to work.

+ You cannot use third party ssds because they are to slow for Mini Mag speeds. :)

Greetings from someone who knows how it’s done! ☺️
 

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The fact that RED are still selling 480GB RED Mini-Mags for $1450 USD each, means the pursuit of alternatives is still largely a matter of personal economics for the end-user.

If people really want or need new media it's still there for sale by RED, but people want cheaper media and RED hasn't lowered the cost of their remaining 480GB RED Mini-Mags to a price closer to the possible alternatives.

The unavailability of the larger capacity 960GB RED Mini-Mags and the officially-authorized Kippertie 1&2TB LongTake Mags is also an economic and practical factor in the appeal of possible alternatives.

If RED reduced the price of their remaining 480GB RED Mini-Mags by half or more and cleared out their inventory, then stopped selling them altogether, along with doing any ongoing warranty and repair work of the DSMC2 cameras that might be impacted by use of unofficial media or firmware updates (if they haven't already), the market for more affordable media alternatives could be temporarily satisified, then left to its own devices, with RED no longer having any skin in the game.

Not sure we're there yet.

Looking at the second-hand RED Mini-Mag market as an alternative to the more expensive new RED Mini-Mags, there doesn't seem to be a huge or very cheap supply there, so again, there's the appeal of the other alternatives.

However, it's interesting to note too though that the Micron 480GB and 960GB mSATA SSD's that RED used in their Mini-Mags are now discontinued and only available as refurbished units as far as I can tell, so that basically means you might be better off just buying a second-hand RED MiniMag anyway, rather than spending the time and money putting something together with those refurbished SSD's (which aren't overly abundant either).

So, it makes sense that if someone were to go the do-it-yourself route for new media, that they would actually use the brand new SSD's available now, which could add to the cost, and would surely require at least some degree of research and testing to find a safe and reliable model and brand of SSD to use.

Then there's the question of how you physically connect the new media to the camera. I'd say the form-factor of the RED and Kippertie Mini-Mags was pretty well thought out and implemented, and I personally wouldn't want to use anything less than that in terms of fit and materials (physically robust and securely fitting and providing adequate heat transfer). So where would a person get or how would they make those SSD enclosures, and for what cost?

At this point (not even getting as far as dealing with the firmware tweaking), for me personally, I have to step aside and leave such developments for others to pursue, while persisting with actual RED Mini-Mags in some form or another, and looking sideways at the DSMC3 platform and forward to whatever might await beyond that.
 
The fact that RED are still selling 480GB RED Mini-Mags for $1450 USD each, means the pursuit of alternatives is still largely a matter of personal economics for the end-user.

If people really want or need new media it's still there for sale by RED, but people want cheaper media and RED hasn't lowered the cost of their remaining 480GB RED Mini-Mags to a price closer to the possible alternatives.

The unavailability of the larger capacity 960GB RED Mini-Mags and the officially-authorized Kippertie 1&2TB LongTake Mags is also an economic and practical factor in the appeal of possible alternatives.

If RED reduced the price of their remaining 480GB RED Mini-Mags by half or more and cleared out their inventory, then stopped selling them altogether, along with doing any ongoing warranty and repair work of the DSMC2 cameras that might be impacted by use of unofficial media or firmware updates (if they haven't already), the market for more affordable media alternatives could be temporarily satisified, then left to its own devices, with RED no longer having any skin in the game.

Not sure we're there yet.

Looking at the second-hand RED Mini-Mag market as an alternative to the more expensive new RED Mini-Mags, there doesn't seem to be a huge or very cheap supply there, so again, there's the appeal of the other alternatives.

However, it's interesting to note too though that the Micron 480GB and 960GB mSATA SSD's that RED used in their Mini-Mags are now discontinued and only available as refurbished units as far as I can tell, so that basically means you might be better off just buying a second-hand RED MiniMag anyway, rather than spending the time and money putting something together with those refurbished SSD's (which aren't overly abundant either).

So, it makes sense that if someone were to go the do-it-yourself route for new media, that they would actually use the brand new SSD's available now, which could add to the cost, and would surely require at least some degree of research and testing to find a safe and reliable model and brand of SSD to use.

Then there's the question of how you physically connect the new media to the camera. I'd say the form-factor of the RED and Kippertie Mini-Mags was pretty well thought out and implemented, and I personally wouldn't want to use anything less than that in terms of fit and materials (physically robust and securely fitting and providing adequate heat transfer). So where would a person get or how would they make those SSD enclosures, and for what cost?

At this point (not even getting as far as dealing with the firmware tweaking), for me personally, I have to step aside and leave such developments for others to pursue, while persisting with actual RED Mini-Mags in some form or another, and looking sideways at the DSMC3 platform and forward to whatever might await beyond that.
The fact that RED are still selling 480GB RED Mini-Mags for $1450 USD each, means the pursuit of alternatives is still largely a matter of personal economics for the end-user.

If people really want or need new media it's still there for sale by RED, but people want cheaper media and RED hasn't lowered the cost of their remaining 480GB RED Mini-Mags to a price closer to the possible alternatives.

The unavailability of the larger capacity 960GB RED Mini-Mags and the officially-authorized Kippertie 1&2TB LongTake Mags is also an economic and practical factor in the appeal of possible alternatives.

If RED reduced the price of their remaining 480GB RED Mini-Mags by half or more and cleared out their inventory, then stopped selling them altogether, along with doing any ongoing warranty and repair work of the DSMC2 cameras that might be impacted by use of unofficial media or firmware updates (if they haven't already), the market for more affordable media alternatives could be temporarily satisified, then left to its own devices, with RED no longer having any skin in the game.

Not sure we're there yet.

Looking at the second-hand RED Mini-Mag market as an alternative to the more expensive new RED Mini-Mags, there doesn't seem to be a huge or very cheap supply there, so again, there's the appeal of the other alternatives.

However, it's interesting to note too though that the Micron 480GB and 960GB mSATA SSD's that RED used in their Mini-Mags are now discontinued and only available as refurbished units as far as I can tell, so that basically means you might be better off just buying a second-hand RED MiniMag anyway, rather than spending the time and money putting something together with those refurbished SSD's (which aren't overly abundant either).

So, it makes sense that if someone were to go the do-it-yourself route for new media, that they would actually use the brand new SSD's available now, which could add to the cost, and would surely require at least some degree of research and testing to find a safe and reliable model and brand of SSD to use.

Then there's the question of how you physically connect the new media to the camera. I'd say the form-factor of the RED and Kippertie Mini-Mags was pretty well thought out and implemented, and I personally wouldn't want to use anything less than that in terms of fit and materials (physically robust and securely fitting and providing adequate heat transfer). So where would a person get or how would they make those SSD enclosures, and for what cost?

At this point (not even getting as far as dealing with the firmware tweaking), for me personally, I have to step aside and leave such developments for others to pursue, while persisting with actual RED Mini-Mags in some form or another, and looking sideways at the DSMC3 platform and forward to whatever might await beyond that.
We will be using new ssds unlike jinni with mlc nand. So you’re getting a better ssd than reds tlc nand 480gb ssd. Also chasings with usb-c will be available. Formfactor for now is msata but I got m2 sata and 2.5 inch working.
 
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My best advice to provide. Reach out to RED regarding this. KipperTie was able to make RED approved media. Not a bad idea to get the stamp of approval even on legacy hardware. In fact, done that way, they may even assist you in doing so.
 
Okay, considering Phil is in the loop enough to give that advice, it answers some of the questions I had and was going to ask.

I thought the fact that this is being openly discussed here suggested some things might be possible now that weren't before, or perhaps an arrangement had been made along similar lines to what Kippertie managed to do way back when.

That doesn't seem to be the case.

While from a technical stand-point it's clearly possible for RED ONE and DSMC1&2 compatible SSD media to be made that uses internal SSD's and connectors and casings of a quality at least equal to what RED put together, there's more to it than that.

As someone who probably would end up buying more affordable RED-approved Mini-Mags if they became available, I'd strongly echo Phil's advice on being honest and up-front about your intentions and contacting RED to see what you can work out that might be beneficial (or at least not detrimental) for everyone involved. As soon as money is involved and transactions are taking place, things need to be done in a certain way or you can find yourself in way over your head legally and financially.

On the other hand, if you're just making stuff for your own personal use or for sharing with friends, then I'd suggest keeping it to yourselves or just sharing theoretical information about it with others who might have the same personal interests. I've heard people have been using thier own home-made media solutions for ages, they just didn't broadcast it.

To be honest, I think it would be difficult to get RED approval for newly manufactured legacy media if it would require them spending actual time and money on making it happen (like they did with Kippertie pre-DSMC3). But you never know, and you're still better off finding out where they stand before you commit to making an actual product.
 
Correct but the cam needs to be updated and we know that this won’t happen. 512gb is basically done. My first plan was releasing a how to but since DSMC2 cams which can record 8k need 400+ mb/s not the mentioned 300, so basic cheap ssds won’t work since to slow after 60% full. 1TB is in the makings and also basically done. :)
 
Just thinking out loud here, but if I wanted to go into the legacy RED media business, this is what I would propose to RED -

I will source and test the performance of new SSD's and connectors and provide RED with results showing the SSD's are capable of meeting the Read/Write performance and reliability required for use in the RED One & DSMC1&2 cameras.

I will provide RED with designs for new SSD enclosures that may or may not impinge upon RED's previous designs, or I will use RED's previous designs, and RED will licence me the rights to use those designs for a nominal fee, on the condition that the enclosures are not sold as empty units.

You will grant me permission to alter and redistribute RED One and DSMC1&2 camera firmware, on the sole provision that I am legally/contractually bound to only alter the camera firmware in order to facilitate recognition and usability of the the new SSD's, either in batches or on a case by case basis, and on the condition that I provide you with updated lists of which specific SSD's have been added to the camera firmware.

You will grant me permission to use RED's method of encryption, for the sole purpose of ensuring no unauthorized SSD's can be used with the cameras.

I will sign a legally binding agreement that RED will bear no responsibility for anything that may result from the use of the altered camera firmware or the new SSD's or enclosures etc.

Basically, whatever it was Kippertie did, but with the addition of the part where the obsolete camera firmware gets updated, not by RED, but by the new SSD/Redmag provider, to save RED the cost and hassle and obligation and potential repercussions of doing it themselves.

And if they agreed to all that, then I'd just hope that all my expenses and overheads didn't send the cost of the media north of where RED and kippertie had it anyway.

Probably some other aspects to it I'm missing that would make the idea unfeasible, but just putting it out there.
 
If someone could actually figure this process out it would be amazing .
There are msata drives with the correct drive speeds now readily avaialiable .
One of my mags just died too 😭
 
If someone could actually figure this process out it would be amazing .
There are msata drives with the correct drive speeds now readily avaialiable .
One of my mags just died too 😭
I tried so many and none of them worked in terms of speed. Recording stoped after 60% full or even less
 
Went looking for those Samsung M.2 SSD's Kippertie were using (860 EVO's), then found out they're still making their Longtake Mags - https://store.kippertie.com/product/longtake-2tb-ssd-mag/

I thought they'd stopped making those years ago, but it looks like they've got new stock available for a limited time.

Only suitable for DSMC2, and in the 2TB capacity, but there you go.

Reasonably priced per GB imo. Just so many of them in one unit...
 
I'm not trying to start that conversation again, but the final retail price of RED-compatible media has never been just about the price of SSD's on any given day.

Here are the (now discontinued) 2TB SSD's used in the Longtake mags - https://www.samsung.com/us/computin...-drives/ssd-860-evo-m-2-sata-2tb-mz-n6e2t0bw/

It's a similar story with cost of the various (now discontinued) SSD's used in the RED mags.

It's also a similar story with those other ones that dude tried to sell.

I think it will be a similar story too for anyone else who puts in the work and fronts the costs of making such niche products for a limited market, even if they keep their actual profits down to an absolute minimum.

On the subject of what people might be willing to pay now for legacy media to be used in discontinued RED cameras, I think it's interesting that RED used Kingston brand SSD's in their REDmags at one point, and that Kingston are still making new SATAIII SSD's in the mSATA and M.2 2280 form-factors - https://www.kingston.com/en/industrial-ssd

I'm assuming the faster Read/Write speeds of the NVMe SSD's aren't necessary and that the NVMe connection might be more problematic to adapt to the RED cameras than the SATAIII interface that's been used previously, so looking at those latest non-NVMe Kingston SSD's, here's the mSATA version - https://www.kingston.com/en/industrial-ssd/mSATA?capacity=512gb&form factor=msata&interface=sata&nand=tlc&temperature=commercial

And here are the 512GB and 1TB M.2 2280 versions - https://www.kingston.com/en/industrial-ssd/m2-2280-sata?capacity=512gb&form factor=m.2 2280&interface=sata&nand=tlc&temperature=commercial

Interesting to note there's also a new 'Industrial Temperature' version (-40°C ~ +85°C compared to the 0°C ~ +70°C of the 'Commercial' version) that goes up to 1TB capacity (only up to 512GB is listed here though) - https://www.kingston.com/en/industrial-ssd/itemp-m2-2280-sata?capacity=512gb&form factor=m.2 2280&interface=sata&nand=tlc&temperature=industrial

And here are some random prices for those particular Kingston SSD's -

512GB mSATA ($81.01USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OMSP0S3512Q-00?qs=4ASt3YYao0U6TaKMGg7VUg==&_gl=1*5s2c6g*_ga*dW5kZWZpbmVk*_ga_15W4STQT4T*dW5kZWZpbmVk*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*dW5kZWZpbmVk

512GB M.2 2280 ($81.01USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OM8P0S3512Q-A0?qs=4ASt3YYao0VIHBBhXe57tw==

512GB M.2 2280 i-temp version ($136.01USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OTM8S1S3512Q-B00?qs=HFfMDpzxxd3FyHHzyhJlmQ==

1TB M.2 2280 ($141.25USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OM8P0S31024Q-A0?qs=4ASt3YYao0X/T4SZeRC7zg==

1TB M.2 2280 i-temp version (not listed on the Kingston website) ($219.61USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OTM8S1S31024Q-B00?qs=2wMNvWM5ZX77Uoejrlr3jw==

I'd be interested to know if any of those Kingston SSD's can sustain the write performance required for use in the RED cameras, because if so, they seem like they'd be a good choice for someone to use if they wanted to make new RED media.

At what cost per mag for the end-user though, I have no idea.

What would it cost someone to put those SSD's put into a reliable, tested, warrantied, RED-approved (ar at least condoned) form?

Using the $1500USD Kippertie 2TB Longtake as a rough example and simply halving the cost as you halve the capacity (which isn't exactly how it would work), 1TB would cost approx. $750USD and 500GB would cost approx. $375USD.

If you then use the price of the Kingston SSD's above as a rough example and subtract the cost of the SSD's, you'd need to be able to make the 1TB for $609USD ($530USD using the industrial temp SSD) and the 500GB for $294USD ($239USD using the industrial temp SSD).

If you then factor in the multitude of costs and expenses involved in making and selling mags as retail units that are of a quality worth buying, those margins start looking pretty thin to me.
 
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I'm not trying to start that conversation again, but the final retail price of RED-compatible media has never been just about the price of SSD's on any given day.

Here are the (now discontinued) 2TB SSD's used in the Longtake mags - https://www.samsung.com/us/computin...-drives/ssd-860-evo-m-2-sata-2tb-mz-n6e2t0bw/

It's a similar story with cost of the various (now discontinued) SSD's used in the RED mags.

It's also a similar story with those other ones that dude tried to sell.

I think it will be a similar story too for anyone else who puts in the work and fronts the costs of making such niche products for a limited market, even if they keep their actual profits down to an absolute minimum.

On the subject of what people might be willing to pay now for legacy media to be used in discontinued RED cameras, I think it's interesting that RED used Kingston brand SSD's in their REDmags at one point, and that Kingston are still making new SATAIII SSD's in the mSATA and M.2 2280 form-factors - https://www.kingston.com/en/industrial-ssd

I'm assuming the faster Read/Write speeds of the NVMe SSD's aren't necessary and that the NVMe connection might be more problematic to adapt to the RED cameras than the SATAIII interface that's been used previously, so looking at those latest non-NVMe Kingston SSD's, here's the mSATA version - https://www.kingston.com/en/industrial-ssd/mSATA?capacity=512gb&form factor=msata&interface=sata&nand=tlc&temperature=commercial

And here are the 512GB and 1TB M.2 2280 versions - https://www.kingston.com/en/industrial-ssd/m2-2280-sata?capacity=512gb&form factor=m.2 2280&interface=sata&nand=tlc&temperature=commercial

Interesting to note there's also a new 'Industrial Temperature' version (-40°C ~ +85°C compared to the 0°C ~ +70°C of the 'Commercial' version) that goes up to 1TB capacity (only up to 512GB is listed here though) - https://www.kingston.com/en/industrial-ssd/itemp-m2-2280-sata?capacity=512gb&form factor=m.2 2280&interface=sata&nand=tlc&temperature=industrial

And here are some random prices for those particular Kingston SSD's -

512GB mSATA ($81.01USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OMSP0S3512Q-00?qs=4ASt3YYao0U6TaKMGg7VUg==&_gl=1*5s2c6g*_ga*dW5kZWZpbmVk*_ga_15W4STQT4T*dW5kZWZpbmVk*_ga_1KQLCYKRX3*dW5kZWZpbmVk

512GB M.2 2280 ($81.01USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OM8P0S3512Q-A0?qs=4ASt3YYao0VIHBBhXe57tw==

512GB M.2 2280 i-temp version ($136.01USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OTM8S1S3512Q-B00?qs=HFfMDpzxxd3FyHHzyhJlmQ==

1TB M.2 2280 ($141.25USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OM8P0S31024Q-A0?qs=4ASt3YYao0X/T4SZeRC7zg==

1TB M.2 2280 i-temp version (not listed on the Kingston website) ($219.61USD) - https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kingston/OTM8S1S31024Q-B00?qs=2wMNvWM5ZX77Uoejrlr3jw==

I'd be interested to know if any of those Kingston SSD's can sustain the write performance required for use in the RED cameras, because if so, they seem like they'd be a good choice for someone to use if they wanted to make new RED media.

At what cost per mag for the end-user though, I have no idea.

What would it cost someone to put those SSD's put into a reliable, tested, warrantied, RED-approved (ar at least condoned) form?

Using the $1500USD Kippertie 2TB Longtake as a rough example and simply halving the cost as you halve the capacity (which isn't exactly how it would work), 1TB would cost approx. $750USD and 500GB would cost approx. $375USD.

If you then use the price of the Kingston SSD's above as a rough example and subtract the cost of the SSD's, you'd need to be able to make the 1TB for $609USD ($530USD using the industrial temp SSD) and the 500GB for $294USD ($239USD using the industrial temp SSD).

If you then factor in the multitude of costs and expenses involved in making and selling mags as retail units that are of a quality worth buying, those margins start looking pretty thin to me.
None of the mentioned ssds will work. For the pricing you mentioned is the same thing I thought.
 
Thanks for that, interesting to know those SSD's don't cut it. You said a lot of others failed too. Would make the few that do work more valuable I guess.
 
If anyone were able to get RED's badge of approval, you will likely make some nice money in the coming years.

The DSMC2 cameras still pack a great punch and honestly, considering the prices we see them at now, they're great options for young cinematographers. We just need reliable media for the future.
 
If anyone were able to get RED's badge of approval, you will likely make some nice money in the coming years.

The DSMC2 cameras still pack a great punch and honestly, considering the prices we see them at now, they're great options for young cinematographers. We just need reliable media for the future.
Won’t happen since the cameras need an update for individual manufacturers. Also I’m thinking about DSMC1 / Red One with dying media. There is no way since „they don’t have dev kits for these cams anymore“. Imagine using better parts than red on their original ssds. I think no one wouldn’t like that.

„RED Approved“ for me is a bit too big in some guys brains. Like Jinni Mags, they where 1:1 the exact ssds that red used. It’s not crazy science to build reliable parts for cameras.
 
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