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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

It's Official... BluRay wins over HD-dvd!

Damn, you have to pay for something already broken. Harsh.

I dunno they don't seem to be smart enough to inflict strong DRM on us. Excellent.
 
I know one of MS' long term goals with HD-DVD was to provide legal copying to a windows media server (now known as Windows Home Server). I hope they follow through with that.
For sure you can make your own VC1 based content without burning to any disc and distribute via the net. So I wouldn't declare Blu Ray the winner quite yet.

While I'm always skeptical about a MS first gen product, I think they've really gotten on to something. They will have a software only version for those that want to roll their own and they will have an API to supposedly add 3rd party tools. They specifically mention IPTV as a possible add in. One of the key built in features is automated backup of disk content and easy rollback if a problem occurs. If it works as advertised, the need to have everything on a optical disk might be reduced. Consumer priced LTO tape drives anyone? Affordable Blu Ray data disks?
 
Tom said:
Jeff, I have to disagree with you that Sony "could have squashed HD-DVD" at any time. They're already dumping everything they've got into this format war. In fact, it's Microsoft who could have crushed Bluray had that been their intention. Keep in mind that Microsoft has enough money in the bank to throw ten billion dollars into any business war they engage in, and not even miss it. Sony, meanwhile, is operating deep into the black on their PS3 and Bluray ventures, to the tune of something like a $300USD loss for every PS3 they sell.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure why everyone thinks Microsoft is the sleeping juggernaut in the HD disc format war. MS initially declared support for HD-DVD, not because they favored the format, but because it shipped first. Don't forget that Microsoft is also a member of Sony's Blu-Ray consortium and MS is fully supporting Blu-Ray as well. MS considered Blu-Ray for the HD disc player add-on to the XBOX 360. HD-DVD was chosen for three reasons: 1> It allowed them to meet the <$200 price point. Blu-Ray licensing and specific components are much higher cost. 2> Less restrictive copy protection, the ability to up-scale and play more forms of content over VGA and analog component connections. 3> It's currently possible for people to create and author HD-DVD conent. Blu-Ray authoring tools are still not available in mainstream channels. This is all in MS's developer news articles. Both Balmer and Gates have stated that they are *NOT* directly choosing sides in the format war and will offer products on either side of the fence as it makes sense to do so for their customers. I agree with their choice of an HD-DVD player add-on for the XBOX 360, that made the most sense.

My read on the situation is that Gates and Co. have made a strategic bet that it won't be any type of cheap little plastic disc that wins the HD delivery war, it will be downloads onto harddrives, via platforms like their Windows Media Center, which I also believe will be the way of the future for content delivery.
Click to expand...

Direct downloads are going to be a huge method of distribution. However, they don't make sense for the dominant form of delivery, especially for HD. The average internet user doesn't have access to the bandwidth to make this practical... People looking to buy HD-DVD and Blu-Ray care about picture quality and they're not going to want to pay the same amount for a download in inferior quality. They're also not going to wait to download 30GB of data, which even on a 7.5Mbps cable or DSL connection (about the fastest out there in most places) it's going to take over 8 hours. Add to that the desire to have something tangible. Most people still want a physical piece of media for their favorite movies. And direct download or streaming should be left for pay-per-view or on-demand type services. Or at least that's what keeps showing in most industry surveys... Apple wants to change this with iTunes and AppleTV. But they're not shooting for HD, but rather HD-Lite or Almost-HD.

Anyway, I'm very confused over this format "war" and I think more has to do with studios and distributors than a Sony vs. Toshiba battle. IMNSHO, either format could have crushed the other by now if Sony or Toshiba were actually serious about doing so. Losses taken on units sold are mostly an imaginary number and usually cost per unit figures from these companies include amortized R&D costs among other things like standard mark-up percentages not directly related to actual components in a specific unit. Either format could have dominated last holiday season if either side were willing to flood the market with $200 players bundled with 3 to 5 movie titles. But it seems to me that neither side is willing to make such a commitment and both are being extra-conservative. To say that Sony is throwing everything they have into BluRay is like saying I'm putting everything I have into winning a boxing match, but I refuse to use my left arm. Sure, they may be taking a loss on units compared to their ideal retail sales target price (some imaginary, astronomical number, I'm sure)... To use that as to expand on the boxing analogy, I'm still not using my left arm at all -- it's tied behind my back. But I've hidden a roll of quarters in my right glove.

Every step of the way in this war, we have watched both companies deliver shoddy, unready products at high prices. Very poorly organized, ineffective marketing, Blu-Ray has licensing and pricing restrictions on authorized hardware, some of which are actually illegal and are being contested. In other words, it's still just business as usually in the consumer electronics industry.

Personally, I'm not in favor of either HD-DVD or BluRay. I think each one sucks just as bad as the other. I just someone out there would grow some cajones and make a serious, decisive move to end the format "war". Or perhaps the studios could quit bickering and all decide on one format.
 
zeke said:
I know one of MS' long term goals with HD-DVD was to provide legal copying to a windows media server (now known as Windows Home Server). I hope they follow through with that.
Click to expand...

The ability to legally copy a movie disc over to a media server is called "Managed Copy" and is supported by both HD-DVD and BD+ enabled Blu-Ray discs. The function must be enabled on the disc and currently no HD-DVD or BD titles on the market allow this, but that's due to change real soon now. The final release of WHS supports Managed Copy for both HD-DVD and BluRay media. It's up to the studios to offer it, so when you go to buy a new movie, if you want to put it on your media server, you need to make sure it supports the Managed Copy ability.

Sony is also planning to release a new VAIO media center PC to replace their current models with the 300-disc DVD changer. It will have an external RAID instead of the changer and will allow for loading of CD, DVD and MC-enabled Blu-Ray media. I don't know an ETA, but they were showing demo vids of it at CES, no actual product was present.

Oh, the PS3 can also act as a remote player for these systems, just as the XBOX 360 can with Microsoft's offerings.
 
The real trick in the coming decade, IMO, is delivering HD and game content over the internet. Right now, netflix has shown some promise with their Watch Now feature (which I use and enjoy), but to me, MS is in the prime position with their Windows Media Center, which I also use and enjoy. Once they pipe content into that thing and set up in-home networks between bedrooms and living room TVs, that's the ideal situation for everyone.

Of course, this has been an elusive goal thus far, for everyone.

This is why I say that MS doesn't really care about discs anymore for content, because they want you to buy XBox games and movies over the net via their Windows Media Center, straight onto harddrives.
 
RE: It's Official... BluRay wins over HD

RE: It's Official... BluRay wins over HD

The reason why HD-DVD is still poised to be a player has more to do with it's archival abilities.

Let's look at:

PRICE
EASE OF USE
CAPACITY
BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY

It's cheaper than BD.

It's red laser based and therefore less of a tech rewrite/redesign.

One single side HD-DVD disc is approx 15 GB.
One mini-DV cassette stores approx. 13 GB of DV-AVI or
MPEG HDV. That leaves roughly two GB of overhead for

LUT's
production notes
secondary audio
Production stills
other metadata
project files.

HD-DVD has a better path to being an ideal archival medium than BD.

JeffH in Occupied TX
 
As Anders said, HD-DVD is blue-laser based, just like Blu-Ray. In fact, it uses the exact same laser diode systems. Blue-Ray uses a higher density on a thinner substrate (to allow more layers in the future, maybe).
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The ability to legally copy a movie disc over to a media server is called "Managed Copy" and is supported by both HD-DVD and BD+ enabled Blu-Ray discs. The function must be enabled on the disc and currently no HD-DVD or BD titles on the market allow this, but that's due to change real soon now. The final release of WHS supports Managed Copy for both HD-DVD and BluRay media. It's up to the studios to offer it, so when you go to buy a new movie, if you want to put it on your media server, you need to make sure it supports the Managed Copy ability.

Sony is also planning to release a new VAIO media center PC to replace their current models with the 300-disc DVD changer. It will have an external RAID instead of the changer and will allow for loading of CD, DVD and MC-enabled Blu-Ray media. I don't know an ETA, but they were showing demo vids of it at CES, no actual product was present.

Oh, the PS3 can also act as a remote player for these systems, just as the XBOX 360 can with Microsoft's offerings.
Click to expand...

Thats good to know. IF only they actually deliver. I'm hoping someone can come up with a low coast HD DVD/BD non disk player that would read directly off of the server into my AV receiver. And I'm not talking about converting a standard PC either.
 
No managed copy will be available before is goes through the approval at AACS and there seems to be a lot of resistance currently...
 
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