Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

It begins, rumors of 4k camera challengers.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jannard said:
Remember that 5K is 60+% more information than 4K.

Every time you buy a camera that goes obsolete... it costs you money (imagine the C300). I'll be nervous when someone actually beats what we are doing... not matches what the RED ONE did. But without RAW.

So... going into NAB, the mark is 5K at 120fps RAW with an upgrade path. Measure all the new entries against this.

Jim
Click to expand...

At least they release what they announce ;)
 
Jannard said:
Remember that 5K is 60+% more information than 4K.

Every time you buy a camera that goes obsolete... it costs you money (imagine the C300). I'll be nervous when someone actually beats what we are doing... not matches what the RED ONE did. But without RAW.

So... going into NAB, the mark is 5K at 120fps RAW with an upgrade path. Measure all the new entries against this.

Jim
Click to expand...

I measured the Scarlet against this, but he spec sheet says 120fps at 1k. Is that a typo? It says it only does 12fps at 5k, they missed off a zero right?
 
Felix K. said:
At least they release what they announce ;)
Click to expand...

That's a low blow Felix, and it's pretty tired too. Back then Red was giving us a rare glimpse into the future and all of us were glad to have it. They shared their excitement with us. As I see it, Red has announced three cutting edge pieces of technology early in their development and over delivered on two of them. That's a damn good record for tech.
EDIT: If you consider the Scarlet interchangeable config separately, I guess you have to say Red delivered 3 for 4.

As far as price is concerned, they may not have been able to deliver on the ambitious 3k equation but none can argue that they have created a paradigm shift in the industry with the pricing they were able to deliver.

Jim appears to understand that as people we seldom reach the goals that we set, so he sets the bar much higher than he expects people to hit. In doing that he helps them achieve more than anyone thinks they can. The only downside to that approach as I see it, is it leaves a few short sighted people weeping in the dust, but most can appreciate what has been done in the end. Which group would you rather be in?


We were privileged to get a sneak peak into a revolutionary company, and I think there are many who would do well to be more gracious.

Richard_JP said:
I measured the Scarlet against this, but he spec sheet says 120fps at 1k. Is that a typo? It says it only does 12fps at 5k, they missed off a zero right?
Click to expand...

Those are Epic specs he is referring to Richard, not a typographical error.
 
Last edited:
Scott Crawley said:
Those are Epic specs he is referring to Richard, not a typographical error.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? Because Jim said that all new cameras should be measured against "5K at 120fps RAW with an upgrade path", but that would mean that the Scarlet fails to measure up. And yet, the initial look at that FS700 looks like it measures up pretty well. I'm sure it must be a typo, I don't think Jim would make a mistake like that. He would basically be saying that the Scarlet isn't very good, because it only does 120fps at 1k. I thought RED didn't do any less than 4k?
 
Yes, I'm pretty sure and I don't think it was a mistake. Epic is their flagship system. It is the best they make. If this were a race (Some would say it is.) then Epic is the camera Red would put in the running, not their second tier camera. If I may paraphrase, I think Jim is saying this: Epic is our best. It is THE best, and this is the new bar that everyone else needs to be shooting for. Come to think of it, I think he has said exactly that on more than one occasion. ;-)

I don't expect that Jim was saying that the Scarlet isn't very good. He wouldn't say that. It is very good. It is not however THE Best.

Admittedly I am not that familiar with the FS700 yet and it doesn't concern me much at this point. I've already placed my bet. Good luck with your choice, whatever it may be.

Richard_JP said:
Are you sure? Because Jim said that all new cameras should be measured against "5K at 120fps RAW with an upgrade path", but that would mean that the Scarlet fails to measure up. And yet, the initial look at that FS700 looks like it measures up pretty well. I'm sure it must be a typo, I don't think Jim would make a mistake like that. He would basically be saying that the Scarlet isn't very good, because it only does 120fps at 1k. I thought RED didn't do any less than 4k?
Click to expand...
 
Scott Crawley said:
We were privileged to get a sneak peak into a revolutionary company, and I think there are many who would do well to be more gracious.
Click to expand...
I am, been around more revolutionary. But what you type is what they say in past tense.
 
Bruce Allen said:
Well... once you add media, it costs a lot less - Sony's SSD media (which handles way beyond Scarlet's write speed) is significantly cheaper than RED SSD media.
Click to expand...

Think about it this way... the price of 3x 256GB RedMag SSDs is the same as this new Sony camera... :)

To many people these kinds of cameras will be perfect. I still don't think that they can match EPIC, but lets see. Interesting days indeed.

Ivan

Ps. Sadly I won't be coming to LA next week Bruce... :/
 
Red is up to something and having some fun I think....this is how I see jim with a beer at nab
 
Felix K. said:
At least they release what they announce ;)
Click to expand...
Felix, Jim delivered a crop option also included. As same as others BTW, such as D4 2.7x crop mode, as for instance.
 
Scott Crawley said:
Yes, I'm pretty sure and I don't think it was a mistake. Epic is their flagship system. It is the best they make. If this were a race (Some would say it is.) then Epic is the camera Red would put in the running, not their second tier camera. If I may paraphrase, I think Jim is saying this: Epic is our best. It is THE best, and this is the new bar that everyone else needs to be shooting for. Come to think of it, I think he has said exactly that on more than one occasion. ;-)
Click to expand...

First and Second Tier products are all well and good but each tier has to be compared to similarly priced cameras. The C300, Scarlet, F700 and F3 are all comparable since they are all in the same price bracket. You would expect a $40k Epic to beat a $10k F700 just as you would expect a $15k Scarlet to beat a $4,000 5D. So when RED is comparing their offerings to the competitions at $10k they should be rolling out their second tier which is much more comparable and in the same general price range.
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
First and Second Tier products are all well and good but each tier has to be compared to similarly priced cameras. The C300, Scarlet, F700 and F3 are all comparable since they are all in the same price bracket. You would expect a $40k Epic to beat a $10k F700 just as you would expect a $15k Scarlet to beat a $4,000 5D. So when RED is comparing their offerings to the competitions at $10k they should be rolling out their second tier which is much more comparable and in the same general price range.
Click to expand...

Sure, but we were talking about this quote in which Jim is clearly talking about Epic as the industry forerunner. It was about bragging rights at the top, not the second tier, or comparing this and that... but the top. We weren't talking about who may or may not agree with him either. I was merely clarifying that the specs Jim is talking about here belong to Epic.

Jannard said:
Remember that 5K is 60+% more information than 4K.

Every time you buy a camera that goes obsolete... it costs you money (imagine the C300). I'll be nervous when someone actually beats what we are doing... not matches what the RED ONE did. But without RAW.

So... going into NAB, the mark is 5K at 120fps RAW with an upgrade path. Measure all the new entries against this.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Felix K. said:
At least they release what they announce ;)
Click to expand...

yep. That was halfway a fair point back in nov 3rd. Apr 3rd, it's close to being a pure joke...
And they took the heat and started getting out of backorder...
Actually it was good for me. Then I wouldn't need a Scarlet, too... :)

RED has a history of changing specs. Sometimes radically. If the base offering wasn't so damned good, you'd probably see a lot more grumpyness....

WHat can get you back as a good contributor to these threads?
really miss your more insightfull posts!

Cheers!
 
Gunleik Groven said:
yep. That was halfway a fair point back in nov 3rd. Apr 3rd, it's close to being a pure joke...
And they took the heat and started getting out of backorder...
Actually it was good for me. Then I wouldn't need a Scarlet, too... :)

RED has a history of changing specs. Sometimes radically. If the base offering wasn't so damned good, you'd probably see a lot more grumpyness....

WHat can get you back as a good contributor to these threads?
really miss your more insightfull posts!

Cheers!
Click to expand...

My calculation is this: I listened to their shit for 3 years, so I'm gonna react like that for 3 years. Man I can't even stand Jim's "We are the greatest - but don't forget, we are cool but humble because we actually know nothing and still make the best cameras" blabla anymore. Everytime I think: you talked like that about the fixed scarlet and it was all bullshit... sorry I can't be more productive or insightful around here. But I got cured of Jim's approach to marketing.
 
Sure. And I can see your point, if I want to...

Spending three year like that seems rather insulting against yourself, though. At least I have felt like that after seeing that I have spent too much on my life being bitter for stuff that happened beyond my controll.

As to the cameras... Well... What is released is actually pretty nice.
And technically, I can see why RED did what they did, even though 3k fixed RAW would have been "good enough" for a lot of my needs...

The released Scarlet is by far not what I was waiting and hoping for, but still, I don't see any better overall solutions out here. If you do: Go for them. Be happy. Make more wonderfull images. We all know you can!

So much more fun and better to look back on than years of grumpyness.

But that is just my gentle advice to you in all respect for the images I have seen you've been able to create...
 
Don't worry, I'm not grumpy, I shoot. I enjoy it. Just not around here ;)
 
Yeah, already too much negativity in this world. Eye for an eye is a horrible philosophy but to each his own!

Glad to hear you are still shooting! stay passionate... and hopefully polite!

Have a good one!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top