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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is this what is hurting the market? No wonder producers are looking for $100 people

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Liam Hall said:
Two seconds on google will get you here:

http://scifimafia.com/2010/03/buck-rogers-in-the-25th-century-webseries-launching-this-fall/
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That was a travesty of color correction. The "editor" just slapped a sepia filter on it then overbrightened it. We shot that on an EX-1, but we had those highlights under control.

If it ever gets released I'll put the original photography in my reel, or my own color correction, not the "finished" shots.

And if you follow the link in your signature you'll find your IMDB entry and a critique of one of your "films" that reads:

"It still looks like it was taped in somebody's mother's basement, the lighting needs major improvement, perhaps buying about 20 more lights would do the trick. The filming angles are very rough, and the sound is just plain BAD! The sound effects and music seem to be totally out of place with the action, and it just gets worse! There are some good video productions out there, but this is not one of them!"
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Funny.

See the series has been around longer than I was involved in it. That particular review, and the episode it refers to is what made me, and a few others, decide to get involved because they clearly needed help.

Since then the series has garnered a Hugo nomination and a TV Guide Award.

Not that the cinematography will earn any awards- but it improved quite a bit.

Finally Liam, the sites really about me. I was a minor league professional ice hockey player and a NASA physicist, amongst other things, before I became a film maker. I think that's an interesting part of me compared to other film makers so its there. If you aren't just being cheeky about being confused by my self presentation I'll give it a rewrite.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
Steve calculated it right, 12 hours is $112 at minimum wage. 11 hours is $100 at minimum wage.
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That's fine and good, I never claimed to have a perfect knowledge of labor laws - but we're still talking about a $12/day difference, assuming all 12 hour days...but that hardly constitutes major lawsuit fodder.

Or an anecdote which I would necessarily repeat to prove a point about compensation laws either, because the premise and the numbers seem a bit questionable. That's the point I was trying to make.
 
Richard_JP said:
Ouch, that's gotta hurt Alexander
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Nope, I meant what I said.

Turns out the review wasn't about my work, but if it had been about my work I wouldn't take it personally.

If you guys are going to look at what I did and tear that up, it would be useful to me. Most of the criticism I received about my work on that show isn't from professionals, so its hard to decide what's worth listening to, but its mostly non-sense.

If you actually care to critique, I was 2nd unit DP on Blood and Fire and The Child What I hate that is very not Star Trek about that shot is no back/hair light. We didn't have grip to place lights for the CU, but the wides were on the main shoot and we did have the gear. Clear difference to me. (A cardy and a baby offset would have made the difference that day.)

I should be co-credited as DP on Enemy: Starfleet. Dave Berry was the DP, but I subsequently shot more than half the episode. The clip I linked is almost completely my work on set but has a filter I am not fond of. (also the director broke the line twice during the shoot, which makes me insane, but most people say they don't notice.)

I should be credited as DP on Kitumba (shot on RED) and Origins

(The episode names are links to clips that contain my work as DP.)

I did another project called Polaris. Only framegrabs are publicly available at this point. Frames 1&4 from the link are supposed to happen when the ship is damaged and on reserve power (and lighting), so darker and more shadowy is part of the plan.

I don't think any of my other recent work is online. (except the aforementioned Buck Rogers filter catastrophe.)

Feel free to be critical, in detail. Some of you seem inclined towards vindictiveness for a percieved slight, go on do your worst- so long as its a clear complaint I'm happy.

Its all getting off topic though.

We are supposed to be talking about rates and the industry.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
That's fine and good, I never claimed to have a perfect knowledge of labor laws - but we're still talking about a $12/day difference, assuming all 12 hour days...but that hardly constitutes major lawsuit fodder.

Or an anecdote which I would necessarily repeat to prove a point about compensation laws either, because the premise and the numbers seem a bit questionable. That's the point I was trying to make.
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And I don't mean to criticize you or your input, just trying to add information to the discussion.

In addition to having to make up the extra salary, there are some pretty stiff penalties, in addition to back taxes and other stuff an employer would get hit with that go way beyond the salary dollar amounts. Especially when you multiply it by every crew member. So, even on a small problem like not paying minimum wage this can mount up to a huge sum.

Probably more important to the "dirty cheating" type of producer is the fact that employee reclassification could affect any rights agreements

I am not an expert, and I am really thinking outloud... but this is interesting.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
Some things about this story don't seem right to me.

A) Isn't $100/day already in excess of minimum wage, which in CA is $8/hour - for an 8 hour day, isn't $100/day already in excess of the minimum wage? In fact, he could be requesting 12-hour days and still not be violating minimum wage standards...

B) Unless you are on a payroll, minimum wage laws do not apply to independent sub-contractors, which is how the OP is selling his services. I don't know how your Producer structured his production, but typically independent sub-contractors work based on the completion of the job, not the hours worked. A 1099 subcontractor is not protected by minimum wage laws.

Just askin' - a lot of us work as 1099 subs, not as employees on a payroll - and I would not want anyone to be misled by this anecdote regarding their compensation rights.
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I am assuming that you are not calling me a liar, as your post infers. If this is not correct, please feel free to correct me. I'm not offended, because this issue begs to have additional clarity.

If you want to stand on your presumption of labor law before The Man, you go right ahead. I've seen people take their ideas into court regarding what the law should be, only to have their asses handed to them. I'm not saying you're wrong, only that the judicial authority has a much fuller understanding of these matters than laymen and there are probably provisions in the labor code that modify the circumstances in question.

And You don't get to define the difference between an independent contractor versus an employee. The labor authority determines that question in the proceedings.

Here's a portion of the code below:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&group=01001-02000&file=1171-1205

Take a gander at sub sections 1195 through 1197.

I don't interpret law, I'm just sharing the outcome of a particular case. I have asked this person to go on record in an article in order to share his experience so others may learn from it. As you can imagine this would be embarrassing to say the least.

If you want to share this story, as I would encourage anyone reading this to do... feel free to cite me as the source and I will verify its authenticity short of disclosing the Producer in question's name. The proceedings are public record, if any of you feel like a paper chase. I don't, because digging through the docket is not fun.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
Some of you seem inclined towards vindictiveness for a percieved slight, go on do your worst- so long as its a clear complaint I'm happy.
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No one is being vindictive toward you. Quite the opposite.

And there's no perceived slight. You were rude and unprofessional.

Also, I'm sincere when I say you should rethink how you present yourself to the Industry. I suggest you should start with your signature here on RedUser - be honest about who you are and what you have achieved and you'll find more people will take you seriously.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
That's fine and good, I never claimed to have a perfect knowledge of labor laws - but we're still talking about a $12/day difference, assuming all 12 hour days...but that hardly constitutes major lawsuit fodder.

Or an anecdote which I would necessarily repeat to prove a point about compensation laws either, because the premise and the numbers seem a bit questionable. That's the point I was trying to make.
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You forgot to calculate the various employment taxes and the penalties for trying to avoid them in your assumptions.
 
Let's drop all the criticism of each other's work. Nothing productive can come of it. There is no rank you can assign anyone based on your own interpretation of their competence that the market hasn't assigned them already. If someone practices a trade and they do so for below market rates, let them enjoy the illusion that they are making progress. If the complaint is that they're getting too much work, remind yourself just how little they are being compensated-- there is no accounting for taste.

If you really want to educate the lesser skilled so that you can compete with them for your jobs, may I suggest a gentle, encouraging PM that offers some suggestions for improvement in their technique. The higher ranks of the market are reserved for those who grow their skill sets with each opportunity by trial and error. The low end of the market should fund this professional growth.
 
Jeff Coatney said:
I am assuming that you are not calling me a liar, as your post infers. If this is not correct, please feel free to correct me. I'm not offended, because this issue begs to have additional clarity.
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This is not correct. I just don't think anyone should spread this story without the facts that you have. I didn't call you a liar or infer that you were a liar. No need to take offense. This is just a discussion about compensation. Which appears to have a rather broad latitude. Until it doesn't...
 
Liam Hall said:
No one is being vindictive toward you. Quite the opposite.
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Well, I think you are. Let me explain. See some people who think I was being rude by being critical are digging up dirt (not very well I might add) and enjoying it.

That is both hypocritical and vindictive.

If you really thought I did something wrong, then two wrongs don't make a right. You should have let me know as others have. You know, "Taking the high road."

I don't mind, I'm not upset or anything. That is how I perceive it. If my action is as unseemly to you as you claim, then your feelings are justified. Your behavior however is at least as unprofessional as you accuse me of though.

And there's no perceived slight. You were rude and unprofessional.
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We differ on that matter. So you shouldn't state it as fact.

That fact is that some perceive it. I do not, and I've stated my case.

I have already stated that I will not be critical any longer, unless criticism is asked for.

At this point that's the best I can do.

Also, I'm sincere when I say you should rethink how you present yourself to the Industry. I suggest you should start with your signature here on RedUser - be honest about who you are and what you have achieved and you'll find more people will take you seriously.
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Thank you for replying again. I will think about your criticism, and may well make some changes.

If and when I do make changes can I PM you for your comments?
 
Damn... this thread is going to hell quickly....
 
So can anybody explain why the 100 day rental to pay for itself rule shouldn't apply for RED if it's being used by rental houses worldwide?

Why would someone be offended if he was offered 400 usd for his 40K RED package?
 
XiaoSu Han said:
So can anybody explain why the 100 day rental to pay for itself rule shouldn't apply for RED if it's being used by rental houses worldwide?

Why would someone be offended if he was offered 400 usd for his 40K RED package?
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There isn't an explanation because you are absolutely right. And it is ironic because that would suggest that $400 should be the upper limit - since most independents have much lower overhead.

For most independents, probably the majority of redone owners, as Gavin suggested ANY income is worth it since most are willing to own simply for access to it for their own work, experiments, or whatever and the approximate $700/month or so lease to own (much less if you figure longer term) is worth it to them. Even as a pure business proposition anything over that is a win.

I figure i have a realistic 10 years of production left. My redone fully amortized itself so the epic will cost me $10,000. I believe it will be sufficiently high quality to be a viable tool throughout those 10 years (I may upgrade to a 645 or whatever - but because I want to not that I need to) so that means it might cost me as much as $1000 a year, even if I never rent it, although as #206 stg2 I think it's reasonable to expect I will generate more than 10k in just the first few months.
 
Wow, that descended into Shitslinging fast.

Alexander, youve certainly had some 180 degree career changes? What were the circumstances? Maybe you could write a script around it?

There will always be people undercutting us, but the only option is to stay professional, and turn out a superior product to justify (not that we should have to) professional rates.

Peace and love.
 
Andrew clemson said:
Alexander, youve certainly had some 180 degree career changes? What were the circumstances? Maybe you could write a script around it?
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You aren't the first person to say that. Its an interesting story to tell, might make a great interview... but I doubt it'd make a movie.

In other words... I'm not quite Forest Gump. :smile5:
 
Or Mark Zuckemberg!
 
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