Is this camera a joke?

[David Wyatt]

Had you worked with a French crew, you also would have had much better jokes on your set...

Red = 'Raide' (hard, stiff, drunk, stoned, broke, etc...)

Wow, so the Red Raid is really something to behold?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Basically I have to agree with Eirik.

My cam goes nowhere without me, for now. In a year, that may change, but then people will have to be a bit more familiar with it in general first. There'sx just so much uncommon with video cams in the workflow, that it's gotta be a hickup somewhere.


G

 

[laguun]

IIRC the shutter can be mistimed intensionally in the software, some people like the effect!
Stephen

It was a mechanical failure.
In such cases ($.$$$.$$$ budgets) the insurances examine very precisely to identify the source of the mistake.

Streaks as effects should be done in post IMHO.
They are very easy to do, and you dont have to work blind and estimating/guessing then. Tiffen offers some nice software for this.

 

[David Wyatt]

Your right, maybe I shouldn't have said anything in an open forum. We all make mistakes. It just hurts me to see problems like this.

Personally I'm glad you did - you confirmed what most of us were assuming - which is that a lot of the problems were to to a lack of experience.

 

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Wow, so the Red Raid is really something to behold?

I was hoping someone would mention!

I not surprised he's british though...

And now for something completely different...

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I will print this thread and show to everyone who says no DIT or a little workshop is needed.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Basically I have to agree with Eirik.
My cam goes nowhere without me, for now. In a year, that may change, but then people will have to be a bit more familiar with it in general first. There'sx just so much uncommon with video cams in the workflow, that it's gotta be a hickup somewhere. G

Yes but that's single owner policy. If you're a rental you can't force people to that (well you can but it never looks good in saying you have to hire certain people I tell you to). What you can have is a policy that they have to have experienced people on the job and valid insurances.


Kind regard,


Fredrik Callinggard

 

[laguun]

I will print this thread and show to everyone who says no DIT or a little workshop is needed.

good idea. but some people are still offended if you tell them that they dont plan/preproduce enough.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Yes but that's single owner policy. If you're a rental you can't force people to that (well you can but it never looks good in saying you have to hire certain people I tell you to). What you can have is a policy that they have to have experienced people on the job and valid insurances.

Kind regard,

Fredrik Callinggard

Very true
I could have rented my cam through a rental house, but declined because of this very reason... Seems it's not an issue, though.

Gunleik

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

i think another problem would be the attitude...

hey this cam only costs 17500 USD, i need a RED TECH, why cant my having 18 years experience with 35 mm dop/ac work with this cam.

Ah you say a lot things can go wrong...?
but its a cheaper and a better workflow then 35mm.
oh i should stay with 35mm.

we need to find the balance between educating people to use this tool like i said before and manage that they dont get afraid.

 

[Steve Gal]

I always tell anyone who wants to rent the red to either get familiar with the workflow or hire a DIT that we have available for shoots. Otherwise you are on your own.

 

[David Wyatt]

Yes but that's single owner policy. If you're a rental you can't force people to that (well you can but it never looks good in saying you have to hire certain people I tell you to). What you can have is a policy that they have to have experienced people on the job and valid insurances.


Kind regard,


Fredrik Callinggard

We just send out our DIT with the camera (compulsory, essentially a wet hire). Most companies seem glad to have at least someone who knows their way round the camera as right now most camera assistants are completely new to the Red.

BTW I clapper-loaded for you once many moons ago - hope you're doing well & your Red is making you very happy!!

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I think a problem (and this is what I feared for this camera) is and now I may find myself in deep water for saying this :biggrin: ....

It's that this camera has such a broad spectrum of interest that it will attract all the different users in our industry. This can be for good and for bad, simply because this camera is so different. It's digital yes but it's also a hybrid to a Cine cam and the workflow is so different etc.

Before it was just not simply a question of that a HVX100 (or what it's called) user with a brevis mount would rent a Genesis together with his crew for a day. If he did he would have a different crew knowing that it takes different skills. This camera has such a vast interest and the forum is filled with different people from different backgrounds that it leads people to believe they can handle it.

That is simply not the case. I've had 15 years of experience only shooting film and several shooting RAW with my stills cameras. Still I knew I had to start from scratch. It's not hard but it takes adjustment and I believe that it might be easier for me with my background then for the guy with DV background. I might be wrong but that's my 2 cents.


Regards,

Fredrik Callinggard

 

[Anthony Gratl]

Patryk's post was very scary. You don't want that to happen. Ever. But thanks to fellow Redusers, we know pretty much what happened now. And thank god, and it's ALL I'm saying, it's not the camera.

Whoa lewis, we don't have a clue what happened. We weren't on set, we don't know who the DIT was or his/her experience level, nor the experience level of the other crew. The collective group here has just decided what's happened. That's a biased and flawed method for solving problems. You can't analyze a situation from your computer and decide that it's all okay.
Patryk's post demonstrates to me what some of the problems are that continue to exist. There are a lot of cameras and owners out there. I'm sure that many of them have problems as well, and don't post here, possibly for this display of limitless loyalty to a camera. And from where I stand, it SEEMS to be a combination of things on this particular set. Patryk did say that they were able to get the footage, so they had some clues as to what they were doing correct? Requesting a USB 1.1 reader is also an indicator to me that they were able to troubleshoot problems very quickly and try to find solutions to them. It was only a two day shoot. People around here need to open their eyes a little bit to the future production reality. So here's our setup: Someone comes on here for the first time and says hey this happened to me, throws in a few jokes that offend the idol, and right away there are at least 30 posts telling him and his crew that clearly they suck because there's no way that their beloved Red is to blame. That's not very progressive people, nor is it going to win people over to renting red cameras from owners. Very few of you asking serious questions about setup, crew, build etc etc. There became a circling of the wagons effect happening. Red is clearly not a bulletproof camera yet, as none are, but it has a high incident rate compared to most, which needs to be addressed if it's going to be a revolution in the capture of the moving image.
This thread is the story of what happened to (to the best of my knowledge) an experienced crew when they rented a camera from a redowner, a scenario many of us would like to repeat often, so for my two cents there's a lot of work to be done by EVERYONE.

 

[Stephen Williams]

What you can have is a policy that they have to have experienced people on the job and valid insurances.


Kind regard,


Fredrik Callinggard

Hi Fredrik,

With respect even the most experienced RED DIT's have under 8 months experience, many a couple of weeks sure that bit of information would frighten many insurance companies.

Stephen

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

What do you think of this...

Before every rental you sit with your client and talk to him and make a log of following:

You give him 3 choices:

1. work with a DIT,workflow test in advance --recommanded
2. make a workshop, take some footage before hand
3. client refuses to take nr.1 or nr.2

Then when you rent your stuff to the client you have the log and no one can blame you, because you had a conversion and recommendad nr.1

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Hi Fredrik,

With respect even the most experienced RED DIT's have under 8 months experience, many a couple of weeks sure that bit of information would frighten many insurance companies.

Stephen

Of course, we're also talking policies in general here and RED will eventually become a non Beta camera.


Fredrik

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Of course, we're also talking policies in general here and RED will eventually become a non Beta camera.

Fredrik

My thoughts exactly. Half a year from now, everything vwill look very different. BTW, anyone remember September 2007?

 

[Ed Watkins]

I have to say that the first time I ever laid hands on the RED I had a similar WTF? feeling as patrykrebisz, and I own two of them. Initially I had codec errors left, right and center. So I sympathize.

However, I sat down, took a deep breath, switched the firmware to a stable build, read all the post about work flow, known issues and advice. I then spent two weeks with the cams in a jungle, and I've got to say I couldn't be happier. There were a few glitches, but the images are stunning, and the 35m DOF is just great to have back after shooting on 2/3" chips for the last 3 years.

I think people on this forum are a bit hasty to jump on RED dissenters, sure he was kinda asking for it by the tone of the post. But in fairness, the RED is getting a bit of a hard time of it at the moment for work flow issues, beta builds and a general lack of instructions for operation. A hostile feeling forum certainly won't help.

 

[Andrew M.]

RED is not Beta not with Ver. 13 in it!

I talked to RED (Brent) to organize RED service training, we could talk also about organizing the RED operator training (RED Operator Certificate) but looks like they are too busy organizing RED World Service now.
I think someone inclined for such business could organize RED Recognized training.
Write the program, show it to RED, get it approved and charge $$$ for two/three day course.

Since it is cutting edge technology it just makes sense to require to have such RED Certificate before you rent this camera to some customers or he has to hire the guy with such training.