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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is this camera a joke?

KnockOutFilms said:
I think you missed my point. I think it's very unprofessional for a rental house to discuss the details of its customers in a public forum. Especially to imply that they were somehow inept.

I've rented PL glass from PSPS for a privately owned Red. As long as I pay my bill and don't bash them in public, I can't imagine PSPS posting their experience with me as a customer, regardless of what I think of the Red camera. That would be very bad form!!
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I understand what you're saying and I agree but in this case the guy only rented out a few accessories so he was only talking from his intuition of what this incident seemed to him to be.

I agree with you but see this as a grey zone, but let's not get into a bashing about that, since the this thread is about something else.

regards,


Fredrik
 
Josch said:
...Make something idiot-proof, and they will build a better idiot.....
LOL, that is very good!
Jochen
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Also you have to be aware of double-murphy laws.
This can result in antigravity.

http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Murphy's_law_application_for_antigravitatory_cats
 
s816mm35mm said:
Patryk rented the accessories from me. I sent him a quote but he went with a private owner. They never used the camera before and did not from what I saw use an experienced DIT. They were asking to use a USB 1.1 Card reader at one point. Sounded like disaster from the very start. I am glad now that it wasn't my camera that they rented.
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There you go... I've seen this kind of 'saving' thinking before... Anyway Patrick, I think you went a bit quick on this forum and should've let a couples of days pass...

I've hardly seen anyone blame the gear in this business ever... It's kinda amateur, and I've worked with every possible working/non-working piece of equipment that exist! I was champ of low budget shoots for years, trust me, all I had was my guts and energy, I was given the very last stock on the very back of the shelf! And I Always managed to make wonders! Even, especially, I'd say, under the worse conditions...

I never gave crap to a hairy Coutant or a vignetting unadapted Zeiss... I remember renting a dolly, an expensive piece of gear at the time, that didn't even work... Everything about it was broken! Even the seats were fucked up and you'd fall of your ass in the middle of a shot! I can tell you I gave the rental company a lot of shit! For renting me that piece of crap! But I knew it was them not caring about their gear, not fixing it or not making sure it worked before renting...

I never called (or posted ;) Chapman about their shitty piece of crap dollies they made...

And the ONLY reason this is less likely, for now, to happen with any other camera, is because the other companies, say Sony, release their gear once they're fully validated, tested, and ready for the market, which by the way sometimes mean it's already outdated too by then... THey don't involve you in the process of development, considering your expectations and wishes... They don't ask the real users about field feedback and tweaking possibilities... That's where Red tought things differently. It's a prototype, still, but an amazing one, already better than most existing equivalent cameras... So yes: be either careful, prepared or Einstein if you use it on a commercial job

From the raw deal you went for about the cam, I can imagine the crew hiring... There's load's of guys 'that know it all' too... And spending time on the net doesn't make you a good DIT or whatever wiseass about HD either... The Red is not a PD150, as someone mentionned here... It might be soon, sort of, but not yet...

Everything clever has been said here about how to prepare and stuff, so I'll skip the chapter, but would you have jumped the same on gear and set on day 1, say on a Panavision Gold had you or your crew never seen, loaded, touched one before?

You'll say 'no, of course, that would have been stupid?!'...

Well there you are...

I'm sure from your work you're not an idiot and the people you work with are probably qualified as well, but that Red job you just bitched about has 'MORON DIVA' written all over it...

I would have put a lid on it... Or tried to find what went wrong so that doesn't happen again... There's all the right people for that right here on this forum!

And trust me, if you really think you'll never work with Red again... I put a 100 bucks on this right now! Red is to HD what HD was to film... Never say never my friend... All those people who said they'd never shoot HD years ago... I still laugh at some, and they still blush...

Be constructive, even if you had a rough shoot. This is what this place is for. And chillout, we're not saving lives, we're making films!

Cheers
 
The bottom line here seems to be that he hired the wrong crew and everybody was completely unprepared. Now he is looking to spread the blame around.

Sad really, because from his website it looks like he actually knows his way around a camera.
 
Big Joke?

Big Joke?

patrykrebisz said:
After gruealing 2 days of shooting on a music video i gotta say it's the last time i'm working with this camera as i don't want to subject another director to similar BS.

I mean codec errors... even if i shoot to the Flash Cards??? Dropped frames for no apparent reason. Sometimes the hard drive working/recording flawlessly then out of no-where it chooses to give you the the codec errors. Simple bugs like the frame-rate displaying inproperly on the LCD screen but then properly in the menus... Simple things that still take extra time to find the simple work-arounds/fix. I mean the list is never ending. The manual that makes it look so simple while in reality it should be filed with warnings about all the fuck-up that can and WILL go wrong.

The quotes/jokes made on the set about the camera are just pure gold:

An AC calling it "Charlie Chaplin camera" because it makes the filmmaking clunking as if it was last century.

The director calling it RED bacause all the errors that flash on the screen.

The jib guy joking it's called RED because it acts like a woman on her period (sorry, gross i know).

Here, we managed to gell all that we needed to get, but you ain't talking me into using this camera again.

Patryk Rebisz
director/DP
http://www.patrykrebisz.com
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I've been on set many times and seen people sent home for Chewing Gum and talking when not supposed to. ^Chewing Gum^

Question: What kind of Director/DP allows anyone to make fun of their Professional tool?
Answer:
 
Please dont demean his opinion. He probably had a tough day and was simply venting his frustrations.

The issue, as I see it was that the DIT didn't properly help them properly on the day.

A lack of education about the camera.

This is still a camera that's still under development, and DITs really should keep up to date with what's best and bugs. For the time being we must learn to provide a seamless filming process whilst working within the cameras current limitations.

Personally we haven't had one disappointed customer since we commenced our business.
 
Visceral_IvaN said:
Please dont demean his opinion. He probably had a tough day and was simply venting his frustrations.

The issue, as I see it was that the DIT didn't properly help them properly on the day.

A lack of education about the camera.

This is still a camera that's still under development, and DITs really should keep up to date with what's best and bugs. For the time being we must learn to provide a seamless filming process whilst working within the cameras current limitations.

Personally we haven't had one disappointed customer since we commenced our business.
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I can second your opionon. However it's (on the other hand) strange just, without any self critisism or any "filters" ventilate your frustration on the forum. Maybe not so constructive to write all the pure gold quotes/jokes either!
 
laguun said:
The arricam which went defective on set came from a quite well known munich basing camera rental company, which has a great reputation for keeping its gear up to top standard.
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IIRC the shutter can be mistimed intensionally in the software, some people like the effect!

Stephen
 
JNAD said:
I can second your opionon. However it's (on the other hand) strange just, without any self critisism or any "filters" ventilate your frustration on the forum. Maybe not so constructive to write all the pure gold quotes/jokes either!
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Agreed. There are better ways to vent, but I guess there is no accounting for personality and tact, eh?
 
KnockOutFilms said:
I think it's very unprofessional for a rental house to discuss the details of its customers in a public forum. Especially to imply that they were somehow inept.
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I agree, but we are not here to be politically correct, we are here to make things go forward. We all invest in this venture and want that camera to be the best. It okay for Patryk to say what he has to, so we can react and work out the issues, tha's the whole point of this forum! But it's only efficient if we have the "whole picture"... Not some "mood diva speech" detailing the 'on set' jokes...

In that respect, s816mm35mm clarifies things as the attitude towards professionalism and backup issues on Patryk's job... They went too fast with gear they never ever seen, and they went for the cheaper 'owner' that is in no way a source of security a good rental company can provide.

That's where I'm hallucinating when I read that original post now... I don't want that product to lie to me like a lot of other cameras or accessories. So I expect everyone here to be honest. So Red develops and fixes the real issues.

Patryk's post was very scary. You don't want that to happen. Ever. But thanks to fellow Redusers, we know pretty much what happened now. And thank god, and it's ALL I'm saying, it's not the camera.

From your work, dear Patryck, you don't look like an idiot. But your post was. Next time, don't approach a job with new gear the same as with gear you've used a thousand times. That's all. You didn't prepare that one.

Just admit it so we can start bitching about other stuff in a new thread.

We get 'bitch bored blazé' quickly on Reduser.net... :)
 
dewaldaukema said:
Hi Stephen
Done more than probably 2000 + days on Sony's from Beta SP to HD. More than probably 20 to 30 breakdowns of some kind or the other. We work with incredibly complicated kit, unless we understand it backwards we should expect problems that can not be resolved on set. Get to know your gear Patryk.
Best
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Hi,

I do get to know the gear I use, probably accounts for my success rate in using it!

Stephen
 
KnockOutFilms said:
Wow, way to throw him under the bus in public--even though he did rent some gear from you. I'm surprised you felt the need to discuss the details of your customer in public. :blink:

Maybe I missed something, and he bagged on you in this forum?
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I am not bashing. There are alot of owner operators here in NY undercutting the fair rental rates and then the camera gets into the hands of inexperienced (on this camera) people. This hasn't happened on any of the jobs that rented the camera through me.
 
s816mm35mm said:
I am not bashing. There are alot of owner operators here in NY undercutting the fair rental rates and then the camera gets into the hands of inexperienced (on this camera) people. This hasn't happened on any of the jobs that rented the camera through me.
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I couldn't agree more with Steve!!!

That's EXACTLY what my post was about, period!
 
You would think with Patryk's long list of credits he could get an A-team assembled?? I have worked with director's who had "friends" who would
loan us equipment.......
 
KnockOutFilms said:
I think you missed my point. I think it's very unprofessional for a rental house to discuss the details of its customers in a public forum. Especially to imply that they were somehow inept.

I've rented PL glass from PSPS for a privately owned Red. As long as I pay my bill and don't bash them in public, I can't imagine PSPS posting their experience with me as a customer, regardless of what I think of the Red camera. That would be very bad form!!
Click to expand...

I'm totally guessing that rental house guy posted what he did in case people assumed he'd sent out HIS camera with non-release firmware and an inexperienced DIT - he's just covering his arse (everybody does it). OK, maybe he went into too much detail (e.g. the USB 1.1 card reader :sarcasm:)
 
davecw said:
I'm totally guessing that rental house guy posted what he did in case people assumed he'd sent out HIS camera with non-release firmware and an inexperienced DIT - he's just covering his arse (everybody does it). OK, maybe he went into too much detail (e.g. the USB 1.1 card reader :sarcasm:)
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Your right, maybe I shouldn't have said anything in an open forum. We all make mistakes. It just hurts me to see problems like this.
 
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