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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is the End of Manual Focus Lenses Near?

AC + AI

AC + AI

I see a move toward lens/camera combos that offer full auto, full manual and "assisted" modes. I also expect a move to lenses with motors built into the barrels that support wireless F(IZ) operations.

Cheers - #19
 
In the mean time vintage lenses are all the rage and don't seem to let off...
 
I don't think it will happen ever. I love shooting manual lenses. (on the other side I hope it does, so I can snatch up all the PL glass for 100$ haha)
 
On set? Not til Skynet takes over.

In a photography/One-man-band/Docu environment? I don't see why not.
 
Darrell Ham said:
On set? Not til Skynet takes over.

In a photography/One-man-band/Docu environment? I don't see why not.
Click to expand...



Because rack focus not done by an algorithm.
 
Aa soon as Sony puts this in an A7sIII everything in the low budget range will switch to it. I use the AF-C on my A7rII all the time and ever that inferior system is pretty usable.
Once they put this in a Venice level camera winter will be here.
 
I think that the AF question is more difficult than anyone anticipated, which is why we still have manual focus for cinematography. For photography that question has been answered very well decades ago. But it was only with mirrorless systems that it took another step forward. You can't do AI subject detection, or persistent tracking, with optical viewfinders and flappy mirror boxes.

Maybe focusing can be done in post with a stereo camera, or better yet, with a light field camera. That would be superior to even the best AF systems. In some situations, stopping right down is a legitimate option, and you don't have to worry about focusing in those cases.
 
Even if autofocus is perfect (very unlikely, but let's be hypothetical) - who's going to make the decision as to which actor it focuses on during the scene, and at what point during the dialogue?
What about a slow vs fast rack? Who's going to make all the creative focus decisions? A good 1st AC is usually very good at this...

In the narrative world I don't really see this happening.

By the way, auto focus systems have been around for well over 10 years (maybe longer) in the cinema world. They've just never caught on for the reasons above..
 
Obviously there will be an evolution from the current focus systems we have now. Its inevitable that we won't be using hand units and gear cranks forever. I think technology will dictate where it goes from here, but whatever direction it goes whatever is most reliable will be what wins.

I think it would be cool to have a touch monitor through which you can control an AI system, dictating it's parameters.
 
James Darren said:
Even if autofocus is perfect (very unlikely, but let's be hypothetical) - who's going to make the decision as to which actor it focuses on during the scene, and at what point during the dialogue?
Click to expand...
Switching actors can be easily done from the touch screen on the camera and I think even with a phone or tablet over wifi.

James Darren said:
What about a slow vs fast rack? Who's going to make all the creative focus decisions? A good 1st AC is usually very good at this.
Click to expand...

Focus and tracking speed can already be changed in the menu. I don't think focus pullers will go away, but they will become (depending on your budget) a much less skilled job. Basically using an iPad to select subjects and change rack speeds but not actually needing to judge distance or focus on a monitor.
 
At this point, I'm not purchasing any lenses that don't have autofocus motors built in. AF for video/cinema will get super-good very, very soon.

That's not to say that there won't be focus pullers / 1st ACs anymore... They'll just be using an iPad to control focus instead of a follow-focus wheel.
 
Evin Grant said:
Switching actors can be easily done from the touch screen on the camera and I think even with a phone or tablet over wifi.

Focus and tracking speed can already be changed in the menu. I don't think focus pullers will go away, but they will become (depending on your budget) a much less skilled job. Basically using an iPad to select subjects and change rack speeds but not actually needing to judge distance or focus on a monitor.
Click to expand...

On still lenses that most people don't want to use, which generally breathe heavily & don't have any repeatable marks on them.

So you'll have to go into the menu or set this before the shot? What happens when things change mid scene? What about when the AF hunts? (which happens ALL the time)

There are many helpful tools already available to help focus pullers.
Turning the knob is the easy part - knowing when, why & adding the creativity is the hard part...
 
Jaime Vallés said:
At this point, I'm not purchasing any lenses that don't have autofocus motors built in. AF for video/cinema will get super-good very, very soon.

That's not to say that there won't be focus pullers / 1st ACs anymore... They'll just be using an iPad to control focus instead of a follow-focus wheel.
Click to expand...

Then you've wiped out the vast majority of cinema lenses out there.

What about when the Ipad overheats? Or is too cold where the touch screen is not responsive? Or you need thick gloves? Or you need better battery life?
Or you need to reboot because it crashes? A Preston rarely crashes but when it does, can be reset in 5-ish seconds.

Or the simple fact that it's just not ergonomic at all to hold??
 
AI has a way to go before figuring out fluidity of focus pulling- see the dead space in the video at 4:18 as an example. The move at 4:47 also feels delayed and feels like there was a processor/motor delay mid-pull. Also, how long will it take for autofocus to detect a subject coming in frame left and immediately know to rack from 12' to 6'8"?


It's cool seeing the technology advance, especially for small footprint shoots and doc work, but the title is pure clickbait.
 
Pulling focus reminds me of the P vs NP problem.

A human is continuously receiving visual feedback of where focus is and how fast it is moving. Based on that feedback, they are deciding how to proceed based on knowing what the subject is going to do next or how the scene will/should progress.

A computer program cannot make those determinations - and to simplify the AI so much that a human operator must constantly "be at the controls" adjusting "speed" or "curves" you might as well have the same system we have now.

Even if you were to program the "focus ai" during a rehearsal, there are too many variables that can happen for it to react appropriately and save a shot that didn't go perfectly according to plan.
 
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