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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is it me!?

It has been alluded that it seems quite costly to upgrade to Dragon. They said there will be a path, but until final costs of the ASICS come in, and what they can reasonably cram into the Scarlet, it may mean replacing it with a new camera.
 
Red's working on it. Getting Dragon in Scarlet is going to be difficult, but the key thing here is Red has stated "Dragon will find it's way into Scarlet one way or another". So today you have a great 4K camera and tomorrow you have a camera body that will still be viable in the future market.

On that note, I'm excited for Dragon. Incredible sensitivity, incredible resolution, incredible dynamic range. And the final specs haven't been released yet. With the specs that we do know it will be the first digital sensor that will surpass what have come to know and love about film.

As somebody who cares about their images and work: Yeah, that's really exciting.
 
There will be some sort of upgrade path to the dragon sensor for Scarlet as well, I'm sure.

And for some an upgrade from Scarlet to Epic is a valid option, especially since the latest price drop.

Just give Red time to figure this out. In time will know the answers. And in the mean time we continue making nice movies and get those cameras to work.
 
Well, for me it's true; right now I'd be content to work with an Epic rather than my lowly (I kid!) Scarlet. Of course, I haven't yet seen what Dragon might do so Ill probably develop a lust for it over time. LOL
 
Rex Phillips said:
How is it difficult? I heard they would replace the ASICS and boards? Do they need more room inside? Explain?
Click to expand...

We don't know the details, but they mentioned that and expressed that's why it will likely be more costly to toss it into Scarlet. I suspect a bandwidth/processing thing. But who knows for sure. We're really just going to need to wait on what Red comes up with. And Dragon is still "in progress". We'll know more this month or next month probably. There's a lot going on behind the Red curtain.
 
Rex Phillips said:
How is it difficult? I heard they would replace the ASICS and boards? Do they need more room inside? Explain?
Click to expand...

This is what I think: a lot more components need to be replaced to get the dragon sensor to work inside a Scarlet. It comes down on re-engineering the inner workings of this camera. I can imagine this to be a complex project. And then the testing, the firmware/software and figuring out the logistics how to handle the upgrading of hundreds Scarlets.
 
As they mentioned the difficult part is to get it to a point where it makes sense. The upgrade itself is afaik only difficult because on scarlet you need more boards, faster processor etc and all this will add to upgrade cost. Now if the upgrade plus the price of a new scarlet is more or equal to buying a new brain with dragon already inserted, upgrading doesn't make sense. Then a trade-in program for example would be a smarter way to go. But how does that make sense for RED.... So there's the dilemma they are working on as far as we can tell.

New scarlet brain is 8K. The upgrade to dragon is more than 6K so maybe 8 or 10K ... maybe even more... A new scarlet with dragon already built in is what to make sense? 15K? 12K? Probably with the new prices more around 10-12K. I guess the calculations alongside the upgraded ASICS are the hardest part. Jarred mentioned something that the 6K for the upgrade may already be less then they should actually be charging but they want to stick to their original promises. That's what I gathered and how I understood the whole deal.
 
I think personally, given the rather unknowns about Scarlet to Dragon, I'll step up to the Epic. Not to say I am in any way unhappy with the wonderful images coming off Scarlet, just that the added features of Epic would be quickly put to use.
 
Chancellor Sheckissa said:
Or does it seem like a majority of people are not looking forward to a Dragon upgrade for Scarlet, but more of an upgrade path to Epic?

Dragon Scarlet upgrade - more than 6K$

Really not that far off from an Epic in terms of overall costs (including the purchase of a Scarlet).

Just wanted to get some healthy positive discussion and see everyone's opinion on this.
Click to expand...

they stated and told many times they are looking way to upgrade dragon..Trust Red on Scarlet ;) you ll get what you want in the end.
 
My trust is wavering. The Epic is now 600% better per $ and not that much more expensive than a Scarlet. If the Dragon upgrade costs an extra $2k a Scarlet Dragon package will cost about $23k and a Epic Dragon package will cost about $32,225. That's 70% of the cost of an Epic. If I'm spending nearly $25k on a Scarlet.. it had better be at least half as good as an Epic.

If anyone has a used Epic Body for about $12k I'm going to just buy that and sell my Scarlet.
 
ditto on the used epic... i wanna trade up

as for upgrades, dont worry i am sure they will figure something out... but some of us would like to overcrank more now, rather then wait, hence the sudden urge for us to move up...
 
Brian Merlen said:
ditto on the used epic... i wanna trade up

as for upgrades, dont worry i am sure they will figure something out... but some of us would like to overcrank more now, rather then wait, hence the sudden urge for us to move up...
Click to expand...
They're counting on that....
 
I'd like a path from my Scarlet to Epic a lot.
I understand Reds position but I feel a little bad having bought a scarlet some time ago.
With this prices I would have bought an Epic for sure.
I believe in RED and I know they will not let us hanging.
 
i believe there could be options to make a scarlet dragon interesting enough without really turning it into an epic and still keep the price somewhat below....
would i rather have todays epic or a
dragon scarlet with 6K 24fps, 5K 60fps, 4K 120fps coming in at maybe 8 or 9000$ for the upgrade from scarlet?
i don't think that would make the epic look bad, would still be a different animal then a dragon epic and still keep the upgrade within reason....
either way, i would prefer a "limited" dragon scarlet to todays epic....all of course a limited budget in mind:)
 
I am a new RED customer. I just ordered my Scarlet package that recently arrived. I am now returning the brain (keeping accessories). Will save up a little and get the EPIC in a month or less... Scarlet doesn't make sense to me as a business model anymore. My work is mostly low budget features and shorts. Every owner / operator would want to own the Scarlet now as the first RED (depending on their budget) as the started camera and be in the RED family. This only means rates coming down. I do feel the pain of people who were heavily invested in full price EPICS. After I get the EPIC plus Dragon later, it will be the top of the line camera (with accessories and I/O module)... hopefully generating worthy rates for owner operator. Not to mention the EPIC choice will be a huge leap for me as a filmmaker, giving me more tools to do what I want to. My advice to new scarlet buyers is to wait and save up for EPIC ... if possible. Rentals rates for Scarlets will definitely take a hit!!
 
Phil Holland said:
Red's working on it. Getting Dragon in Scarlet is going to be difficult, but the key thing here is Red has stated "Dragon will find it's way into Scarlet one way or another".
Click to expand...

Hey Phil, did I miss something? When did someone from RED say the Dragon would go into the Scarlet? All I saw was Jarred assuring a pathway to Dragon.

From Jarred a few days back:

I can tell you right now Scarlet, as it sits , cannot handle the Dragon.

But as it sits, neither can the Epic.

One way or another we will make sure Scarlet customers have a pathway to the Dragon.

It is a complicated problem, but a good problem to have.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...PORTANT-post&p=1084654&viewfull=1#post1084654
 
Jeff Whitehurst said:
Hey Phil, did I miss something? When did someone from RED say the Dragon would go into the Scarlet? All I saw was Jarred assuring a pathway to Dragon.

From Jarred a few days back:

I can tell you right now Scarlet, as it sits , cannot handle the Dragon.

But as it sits, neither can the Epic.

One way or another we will make sure Scarlet customers have a pathway to the Dragon.

It is a complicated problem, but a good problem to have.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...PORTANT-post&p=1084654&viewfull=1#post1084654
Click to expand...

you dont trust them? What do you want more dude...
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
you dont trust them? What do you want more dude...
Click to expand...

Huh? I trust RED and I have no idea why you would question it. I'm just wondering if what RED said matches what Phil said so I can make my plans. Dragon going into the Scarlet is a lot different than an upgrade pathway, agreed?
BTW, I'm no dude...
 
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