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- #102
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Eric J. Johnston
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The problem with a swing away is the actual relief from the lens itself. We first ran into this sometime between the MB-18 and the MB-20.
OConnor will have a complete studio swing away 4x5.65- 6.6x6.6 solution forthcoming.
I do not endorse or recommend any other items but there are a few currently available to do what you are asking.
- Thread starter
- #104
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Eric J. Johnston
Guest
NO- When you have a mattebox bellows fitted to whatever lens you need a horizontal relief mechanism to change lenses; if not when you swing away the mattebox the bellows and all the rings come with it. It’s simply a matter of being able to “pull” the physical mattebox itself away from the lens without taking it off the rods.
- Banned
- #105
Tim Naylor
Banned
Thanks. I do hope you make both a ring and a clamp on. I know I'll lose one filter but sometimes I can get away without it and the convenience of clamp on is hard to beat.
Now a three square stage clamp on would be the business......
Going to Abel in the morning to put together an obox package.
- Banned
- #106
Tim Naylor
Banned
I just got my O'Box. Pieces fit, built like a tank, very precise. All the rings fit. Fully built with filters, it weighs more than your average compact MB, about as much as an MB 20. It's the trade off for a build you can use as a handle mount and for mounting items on its 1/4" and 3/8" holes. I also like the fact that it will be able to take a hit like no other box. The design, overall is well thought out.
Which brings me to one puzzling area. The red knob for tightening the tray in the rotating stage is not easy to get to, unless you have dainty fingers (not me). It's somewhat obstructed and miniscule. I have a shoot coming up in the cold and snow. So if the red knob was difficult in my shop it would be the bane of my filter changing in the field.
My solution was to replace it with the silver knob right below the red tightening knob from the other non-rotating tray holder. This knob is larger and protrudes enough to eliminate the hassles of the mini red knob. My question is: what is original the purpose of the larger silver knob? Upon removing and before re-purposing it, I tried to figure out exactly what it does. After removing it nothing came loose or fell out. So I swapped it with the intsy red knob. What are the consequences of this? Does the silver knob hold something I'm unaware of?
If it does, is there a place to source a larger replacement knob for the micro sized red knob. I think the difficult access of the red knob is a significant design flaw that I see many an AC losing patience with and should be remedied by OC.
Other than that, I think the O Box and I will get along fine. Has anyone else come across this and what was your solution?
Which brings me to one puzzling area. The red knob for tightening the tray in the rotating stage is not easy to get to, unless you have dainty fingers (not me). It's somewhat obstructed and miniscule. I have a shoot coming up in the cold and snow. So if the red knob was difficult in my shop it would be the bane of my filter changing in the field.
My solution was to replace it with the silver knob right below the red tightening knob from the other non-rotating tray holder. This knob is larger and protrudes enough to eliminate the hassles of the mini red knob. My question is: what is original the purpose of the larger silver knob? Upon removing and before re-purposing it, I tried to figure out exactly what it does. After removing it nothing came loose or fell out. So I swapped it with the intsy red knob. What are the consequences of this? Does the silver knob hold something I'm unaware of?
If it does, is there a place to source a larger replacement knob for the micro sized red knob. I think the difficult access of the red knob is a significant design flaw that I see many an AC losing patience with and should be remedied by OC.
Other than that, I think the O Box and I will get along fine. Has anyone else come across this and what was your solution?
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- #107
Tim Naylor
Banned
Problem solved by Abel/OC. Just getting a larger knob. How about that?
Ryan E. Walters
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My $0.02-
My $0.02-
O-Faced with the O-Box: http://www.ryanewalters.com/Blog/files/O-Box.html
Cutting to the chase: (Summary on the blog post)
I do not think that the perfect matte box exists at any price range. And if it does, it has yet to be invented. So my advice is this - figure out what you need, and then figure out what you can afford. If you need a quality matte box that is light weight, has up to three stages, is strong enough to operate from, is accessory friendly, and will not break the bank account, then the O-Box is for you. I am very happy with my purchase, and even with the suggestions I have for the improvements, I still feel good about recommending this matte box to those people that need something that is solidly built and light weight.
My $0.02-
O-Faced with the O-Box: http://www.ryanewalters.com/Blog/files/O-Box.html
Cutting to the chase: (Summary on the blog post)
I do not think that the perfect matte box exists at any price range. And if it does, it has yet to be invented. So my advice is this - figure out what you need, and then figure out what you can afford. If you need a quality matte box that is light weight, has up to three stages, is strong enough to operate from, is accessory friendly, and will not break the bank account, then the O-Box is for you. I am very happy with my purchase, and even with the suggestions I have for the improvements, I still feel good about recommending this matte box to those people that need something that is solidly built and light weight.
- Thread starter
- #109
E
Eric J. Johnston
Guest
Hello Ryan,
Thank you for taking the time to put together such a complete review of the O-Box WM from OConnor. We very much appreciate the feedback and your recommendation of the mattebox to others. I would like to take the opportunity to address some of the questions/ concerns you have raised in your blog in the order they were mentioned:
15mm LWS to 15mm Studio Solution.
OConnor does indeed have a 2 part solution for adapting the mattebox to either 15mm or 19mm studio rods. You remove the LWS bracket that comes with the mattebox by removing the two Allen screws and replace it with either part # C1243-1118 for 19mm rods or #C1243-1119 for 15mm rods. The OConnor adapter then interfaces with an O-Grips rod bridge #C1244-1002 to give you a studio based rod support which would eliminate some of the “flex” you described. It also provides three additional mounting points for O-Grips which then could eliminate the need for a separate handgrip bridge.
Parts Availability
We apologize for the delay in some parts availability but this is common when undertaking a new project such as this. That’s why it’s so important to have dealers who can offer alternative configurations to get customers up and working ASAP. Your concern is noted and as we ramp up production should become a non-issue.
Filter Tray Lock Knobs
Since the O-Box WM has both left and right hard supports (not only for general rigidity, but also to provide for stable O-Grip mounts), any elements attached to the rotating stage will have to clear them, so they had to be short. We can supply an additional long knob for the rear stage, but it would block the rotation at one point or another. Unfortunately, this was a necessary trade off in order to get the necessary sturdiness at this size and weight.
Side Flag Brackets
When defining the makeup of the C1243-0001 kit we examined this issue closely and chose to make this optional. Some people want them; some don’t. In bundling them together with the basic system it adds to the cost and the overall weight so we made them optional. If you want to add them great but others would argue they could have been left out. Everyone wants a top flag so we did include that one with the basic package.
Additional Filter Stages
We’re working on it. But there are a lot of different possibilities here, we want to analyze this and really get the right one.
Bellows Ring
Plastic is often viewed with suspicion, but in this case, the pairing of plastic-on-metal here is advantageous. Anodized aluminum on anodized aluminum can gall, fret and bind with time, while acetal plastics are self-lubricating. The reason some other manufacturers go with metal round-filter rings is because the cross-section (difference between inner and outer diameters) is too thin to be stable in plastic; but the comparatively thick cross-section allowed by our large 150mm rear diameter allows for a stable plastic ring. The thread is coarse-pitch and will last a good long time. And the ring is a good deal lighter in plastic than in metal.
Swing-Away
An O-Box WM with a sturdy swingaway bracket would no longer be a lightweight, compact matte-box – and some of the things that make it a good little rough-and-tumble mattebox would get in the way of it being an optimal swingaway studio mattebox, no matter how the swingaway bracket was designed. So we might build this if there were enough demand, but experience often shows that offering modular compromises doesn’t necessarily result in happy customers… what comes out might be cheaper than buying two products, but you’ll still have to work with it every day.
Manual and the “Mystery Knob”
We agree with your point 100% on this that a manual for all products should be part of the package. OConnor is currently working on one but the delivery of the first production run of matteboxes was more important. This will be included in the near future and available for down load from www.ocon.com
The “mystery” 3rd silver locking knob you referred to locks the rear stage rotation. This can function as a friction tensioner, and when tightened down all the way it will act as a brake. There’s often discussion regarding if these rotation brakes are really necessary, but since some people do want them, we included it.
Thank you again for the feedback and enjoy your new O-Box!
Please feel free to contact me directly with any questions or concerns @ my email below.
My apologies for the length of this posting…
Thank you for taking the time to put together such a complete review of the O-Box WM from OConnor. We very much appreciate the feedback and your recommendation of the mattebox to others. I would like to take the opportunity to address some of the questions/ concerns you have raised in your blog in the order they were mentioned:
15mm LWS to 15mm Studio Solution.
OConnor does indeed have a 2 part solution for adapting the mattebox to either 15mm or 19mm studio rods. You remove the LWS bracket that comes with the mattebox by removing the two Allen screws and replace it with either part # C1243-1118 for 19mm rods or #C1243-1119 for 15mm rods. The OConnor adapter then interfaces with an O-Grips rod bridge #C1244-1002 to give you a studio based rod support which would eliminate some of the “flex” you described. It also provides three additional mounting points for O-Grips which then could eliminate the need for a separate handgrip bridge.
Parts Availability
We apologize for the delay in some parts availability but this is common when undertaking a new project such as this. That’s why it’s so important to have dealers who can offer alternative configurations to get customers up and working ASAP. Your concern is noted and as we ramp up production should become a non-issue.
Filter Tray Lock Knobs
Since the O-Box WM has both left and right hard supports (not only for general rigidity, but also to provide for stable O-Grip mounts), any elements attached to the rotating stage will have to clear them, so they had to be short. We can supply an additional long knob for the rear stage, but it would block the rotation at one point or another. Unfortunately, this was a necessary trade off in order to get the necessary sturdiness at this size and weight.
Side Flag Brackets
When defining the makeup of the C1243-0001 kit we examined this issue closely and chose to make this optional. Some people want them; some don’t. In bundling them together with the basic system it adds to the cost and the overall weight so we made them optional. If you want to add them great but others would argue they could have been left out. Everyone wants a top flag so we did include that one with the basic package.
Additional Filter Stages
We’re working on it. But there are a lot of different possibilities here, we want to analyze this and really get the right one.
Bellows Ring
Plastic is often viewed with suspicion, but in this case, the pairing of plastic-on-metal here is advantageous. Anodized aluminum on anodized aluminum can gall, fret and bind with time, while acetal plastics are self-lubricating. The reason some other manufacturers go with metal round-filter rings is because the cross-section (difference between inner and outer diameters) is too thin to be stable in plastic; but the comparatively thick cross-section allowed by our large 150mm rear diameter allows for a stable plastic ring. The thread is coarse-pitch and will last a good long time. And the ring is a good deal lighter in plastic than in metal.
Swing-Away
An O-Box WM with a sturdy swingaway bracket would no longer be a lightweight, compact matte-box – and some of the things that make it a good little rough-and-tumble mattebox would get in the way of it being an optimal swingaway studio mattebox, no matter how the swingaway bracket was designed. So we might build this if there were enough demand, but experience often shows that offering modular compromises doesn’t necessarily result in happy customers… what comes out might be cheaper than buying two products, but you’ll still have to work with it every day.
Manual and the “Mystery Knob”
We agree with your point 100% on this that a manual for all products should be part of the package. OConnor is currently working on one but the delivery of the first production run of matteboxes was more important. This will be included in the near future and available for down load from www.ocon.com
The “mystery” 3rd silver locking knob you referred to locks the rear stage rotation. This can function as a friction tensioner, and when tightened down all the way it will act as a brake. There’s often discussion regarding if these rotation brakes are really necessary, but since some people do want them, we included it.
Thank you again for the feedback and enjoy your new O-Box!
Please feel free to contact me directly with any questions or concerns @ my email below.
My apologies for the length of this posting…
Jay A. Kelley
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My first exposure to Eric was through a mattebox.. It was a good thing.. I have not seen this new one, but if he's involved.. I can imagine the quality level is 2nd to none.
Jay
Jay
Ryan E. Walters
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Eric,
Thank you for taking the time to read and respond so throughly to my thoughts / input. Just to re-itterate, I am very happy with my purchase, and the O-box is working great with my setup. The combo of OConnor's product and Abel Cine's excelent service and help make for a great paring as Abel Cine was able to direct me to interim solutions until the rest of the support / accessories are available for the matte box.
One additional note I did not include in my blog post, is the eyebrow- What is the purpose of having it contoured? Or is that just an aesthetic choice? If purely aesthetic, then I HIGHLY recommend that it be abandoned for a completely straight eyebrow. Having it "high centered" in the center causes some problems when trying to eliminate a lens hit coming in the middle of the lens as the sides of the eyebrow dip into frame before the center does. Granted this is not a problem 95% of the time, but for the 5% of the time that it is a problem, it really counts ...
Thanks again for your time, and for being involved with a great product / company.
Thank you for taking the time to read and respond so throughly to my thoughts / input. Just to re-itterate, I am very happy with my purchase, and the O-box is working great with my setup. The combo of OConnor's product and Abel Cine's excelent service and help make for a great paring as Abel Cine was able to direct me to interim solutions until the rest of the support / accessories are available for the matte box.
One additional note I did not include in my blog post, is the eyebrow- What is the purpose of having it contoured? Or is that just an aesthetic choice? If purely aesthetic, then I HIGHLY recommend that it be abandoned for a completely straight eyebrow. Having it "high centered" in the center causes some problems when trying to eliminate a lens hit coming in the middle of the lens as the sides of the eyebrow dip into frame before the center does. Granted this is not a problem 95% of the time, but for the 5% of the time that it is a problem, it really counts ...
Thanks again for your time, and for being involved with a great product / company.
Jim Elias
Well-known member
Hi Ryan
The flag is mainly intended to be used "low-centered;" the two little raised areas on the ends are made to clear the side flag brackets when you fold the flap straight down to protect glass.
We never thought of using it "high-centered" before, but now that I think about it, there might of course be some times you want to do that. It's certainly not illegal.
Glad you like your MB and we'll keep you filled in regarding the filtering options.
Best,
Jim
Ryan E. Walters
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That makes so much more sense! I'll flip it around. (I supposed I would have figured that out when I add the side flags.) It would be great to also have a flat eyebrow option for when the side flags are not in use.
Ryan E. Walters
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Just a note about the Bellows ring- I have been using it out in the cold (30 - 40 degrees) for the last couple of days now, and while in theory the plastic and metal might be the best self-lubricating, in practice it does not seem to be turing out that way. When I use the ring in the cold, the metal ring gets stuck in the outer plastic ring. And it takes considerable force to get it out. Additionally, the indents for the fingers are very spaced out and do not provide adequate leverage to get the stuck tray out. This makes it frustrating for my assistant especially when time is an important factor. (Which is almost always the case when shooting exteriors.) Usually I have to be the one to force the tray open and by the end of it, my fingers are pretty well sliced up. (See attached pictures.)
Please consider a metal on metal option, and have the thread be finer. My fingers will be singing your praises.
BTW- I've flipped the eyebrow the correct way now, and it works well. Thanks for that tip. (Having an all flat option would still be great for when the side flags are not in use.
The matte box continues to hold up great, and I'm enjoying it.
Attachments
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Eric J. Johnston
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Hello Ryan,
I’m beginning to think the threading on your bellows ring may have a small burr in it. I would be happy to take a look at it and using a special file tool “scrape” the threads to make the connection between to two less difficult to unscrew. Send me an email at my address below and we can figure out what’s most convenient for you and your shooting schedule.
Thanks again and we are happy to hear you continue to enjoy the mattebox.
I’m beginning to think the threading on your bellows ring may have a small burr in it. I would be happy to take a look at it and using a special file tool “scrape” the threads to make the connection between to two less difficult to unscrew. Send me an email at my address below and we can figure out what’s most convenient for you and your shooting schedule.
Thanks again and we are happy to hear you continue to enjoy the mattebox.
Ryan E. Walters
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Eric- thanks. I'll send an email shortly.
BTW- here is a picture of the O-box in action for a doggie cam setup we did today. The extra threads on the top came in very handy!
BTW- here is a picture of the O-box in action for a doggie cam setup we did today. The extra threads on the top came in very handy!
Curran Giddens
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You forgot the pic. I want to see...
Ryan E. Walters
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oops-
oops-
Sorry about that- I was on lunch when I posted and I thought the picture made it on ... here it is ...
I also posted it on my twitter feed: http://twitpic.com/3vvozh
oops-
Sorry about that- I was on lunch when I posted and I thought the picture made it on ... here it is ...
I also posted it on my twitter feed: http://twitpic.com/3vvozh
Gursimran Dhillon
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Looks like Abel is out of stock and so are couple others I tried. Anybody knows a shop that has the o-box in stock?
Eric, when can we expect the fresh stock to arrive at Abel?
Eric, when can we expect the fresh stock to arrive at Abel?
- Thread starter
- #120
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Eric J. Johnston
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Unfortunately (or fortunately?) the positive response to the O-Box has been so great that we have sold-out worldwide. The next production run is in full effect and we should see stock delivered to dealers by the end of this month barring any unforeseen surprises.
Thank you all for your support and your patience for a few more weeks will be worth the wait for a mattebox that will serve you and your production needs for years to come.