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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Interesting news from Blackmagic...

Marc Wielage said:
What are you actually trying to deliver for? The biggest problem with an HDR or Dolby Vision workflow is the monitoring. Whether you go Nucoda or Resolve or Baselight, the display is what kills you. There's no reliable way to do it without spending at least $30,000-$40,000.

For us, we just do the entire project in Rec709, then if the client wants an HDR deliverable, we book time for a trim pass at a Dolby Vision facility and do that there. Even that is not cheap.
Click to expand...

When you grade for HDR, is it usually the whole film, or do you try to accentuate the look in certain scenes? I was watching some streaming service and the colors were completely off in certain scenes, and I was assuming it was an error with an HDR source being presented in SDR.
 
Marc Wielage said:
What are you actually trying to deliver for?
Click to expand...
Not delivering Dolby for clients yet.
I've spent a bit of time getting parallel HDR/SDR workflow together in Resolve and I do not yet own proper HDR monitoring.
But based on various monitors coming to market, I would expect 1000nit-all-day-everyday to be a reality for sub $10k in 2020.
 
Savannah Miller said:
When you grade for HDR, is it usually the whole film, or do you try to accentuate the look in certain scenes? I was watching some streaming service and the colors were completely off in certain scenes, and I was assuming it was an error with an HDR source being presented in SDR.
Click to expand...
It's the entire film. It would fail QC if we just did it every so often. Color doesn't change so much as peak whites and overall contrast. Dolby provides Trim Nodes that allow tweaking just specific levels, though sometimes compensation has to be done in order to avoid color shifts and artifacts. It's not unusual to have at least two displays up at one time -- SDR and HDR so you can compare one to the other.
 
Hi Jake,

jake blackstone said:
Hence my original statement of Resolve Studio being a collection of second rate software:)
Click to expand...

jake blackstone said:
Baselight... is built on the best color foundation in the business...
Click to expand...

While I find "second rate software" a bit provocative, I would really like to hear why you feel that way about Resolve and why you feel Baselight has the "best color foundation in the business". Can you expand? Even if it's only a few summarising sentences.

(And just to be absolutely clear: there is no irony or provocation here, I just like to know why you feel that way—knowing that you have lots of hands on time with both).
 
Todd S said:
Not delivering Dolby for clients yet.
I've spent a bit of time getting parallel HDR/SDR workflow together in Resolve and I do not yet own proper HDR monitoring.
But based on various monitors coming to market, I would expect 1000nit-all-day-everyday to be a reality for sub $10k in 2020.
Click to expand...

e11f9ec8b7594846fa59e5b7fafec606.jpg


https://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/6544-groundbreaking-new-asus-monitor-features-4k-mini-led-and-dolby-vision

https://www.asus.com/Monitors/ProArt-PA32UCX/
 
AndreeMarkefors said:
Hi Jake,





While I find "second rate software" a bit provocative, I would really like to hear why you feel that way about Resolve and why you feel Baselight has the "best color foundation in the business". Can you expand? Even if it's only a few summarising sentences.

(And just to be absolutely clear: there is no irony or provocation here, I just like to know why you feel that way—knowing that you have lots of hands on time with both).
Click to expand...

Far be it for me to speak for Jake, but I will say this about that: (1) Resolve has been a highlight of my experience editing and grading R3D media, and (2) it's quite ad hoc and you just have to go with it. For example, the qualifier's behavior is hard-wired to REC709 behavior, which is great if your timeline is REC709, but which is crazy if your timeline is Log3G10. Support for CDLs is still quite wonky. Basic operations, such as changing exposure levels using a node, requires the knowledge of non-intuitive idioms. But again, once you learn the idioms, you can make it do the math you want.

In theory, a color grading platform with a perfectly idealized model and a unique-but-coherent way of doing every single operation would be the most elegant solution. But the rapid rate at which Resolve incorporates user feedback, keeps up to date with changes from the hardware and software ecosystem, and the fact that so many people who do color do not have the kind of foundation that is necessary to master the idealized model, has made Resolve the most work-ready tool in the toolbox for thousands upon thousands of us. And I appreciate that.
 
Michael Tiemann said:
For example, the qualifier's behavior is hard-wired to REC709 behavior..
Click to expand...

My understanding is that many of the tools are 'optimized' for 709/1886. These days I am typically transforming in to 709/1886 for all grading and then transforming to delivery format for the export or for monitoring HDR. I am not using LUTs for these transforms BTW.
 
AndreeMarkefors said:
Hi Jake,
While I find "second rate software" a bit provocative, I would really like to hear why you feel that way about Resolve and why you feel Baselight has the "best color foundation in the business". Can you expand? Even if it's only a few summarising sentences.
(And just to be absolutely clear: there is no irony or provocation here, I just like to know why you feel that way—knowing that you have lots of hands on time with both).
Click to expand...
Hi Andree.
I pondered for a while on the best way to explain opinion I expressed. Unfortunately, it is not easy to explain it, as much of Baselight superiority arises from Filmlight's never ending quest for the attention to details and anticipation for the needs of users not only today, but for the future.
Case in point, at the time, Basegrade operator was specifically created to address the upcoming HDR imagery. Until you have a chance to use it, it is difficult to explain just how much better it is in comparison to the traditional ways of color manipulations, like LGG or Offsets. All controls are calibrated in F-stops, unlike other platform use of arbitrary 0-1 or -50 to +50 etc. The list goes on and on. But, at the end of the day, you must try it, as it is impossible to express the immediacy and precision Baselight tools have in comparison to other platforms.
I would like to add just one more example of forward-looking philosophy of FilmLight. In the last version of Baselight FilmLight introduced a brand new control- texture. Many are not aware, that SDR images don't translate well to HDR because specular highlights in HDR look much harsher. So, Highlight Texture is designed to address this phenomena. Texture equalizer can address the issue of mismatched lenses, as in mismatched MTF. Many secondary color manipulations can introduce noise, which traditionally addressed by using Noise reduction. Again, Texture blend simply works by not introducing the noise in the first place, resulting in a much cleaner image. Honestly, examples are everywhere.
To me, it's the difference between BM and FilmLight is in design philosophy. Every year at NAB, ready or not, BM introduces a new version of Resolve. That usually is followed by lengthy public beta release. This year, if Resolve is to be released next month, it will be 6 months in beta testing. Moreover, some new tools IMHO are of dubious quality (Boring detector?).
When FilmLight was preparing to release Baselight V5, it took them two years to get it ready. And it was well worth the wait. The most important reason for the delay was the new color foundation. It is simply impossible to describe, but in the words of Steve Jobs, it just works:)
Please take a look at some of these videos, as they can explain the wonders of Baselight platform much better, than I can...


 
Marc Wielage said:
It's the entire film. It would fail QC if we just did it every so often. Color doesn't change so much as peak whites and overall contrast. Dolby provides Trim Nodes that allow tweaking just specific levels, though sometimes compensation has to be done in order to avoid color shfits and artifacts. It's not unusual to have at least two displays up at one time -- SDR and HDR so you can compare one to the other.
Click to expand...

I guess what I mean to say is do you push the HDR look harder in certain scenes to exaggerate them, kind of like how 3D movies sometimes go in/out from being relatively shallow depth to extremely deep, to exaggerate certain things?

The streaming service I was watching the scenes looked like they had serious highlight issues with clamped highlights being reduced to almost a greyish color. I assume it's for the 4K HDR presentation and their player doesn't work correctly online, but maybe I'm wrong on that.
 
Jake,


Great sample videos.! And like Marc, one day when I win the lottery, I'll buy a complete Baselight no expenses
spared system.
 
rand thompson said:
Jake,


Great sample videos.! And like Marc, one day when I win the lottery, I'll buy a complete Baselight no expenses
spared system.
Click to expand...

The notion that color grading today is done mostly by individuals, that buy their hardware/software is not a complete picture. The situation is really not that different from the camera owners/operators. When a big movie, episodic TV or a high end commercial is produced, most of the time, clients will use a big rental company offering very high end and expensive equipment, ready to provide service at a moment notice should emergency strike. Color grading is not that different. The fact of the matter, Baselight is expected to be used by the companies, that provide high quality service for which they get paid enough to be able to afford the expensive equipment. Some individuals with established high end following also sometimes choose Baselight for creative reasons. And in all those cases, the cost of Baselight is not an issue...
 
jake blackstone said:
The notion that color grading today is done mostly by individuals, that buy their hardware/software is not complete.And it's really not that much different from the camera owners/operatrors. When big movie, episodic TV or high end commercial is produced, most of the time, clients will use a big rental place with very expensive equipment. Color grading is not that different. The fact of the matter, Baselight is expected to be used by the companies, that provide high quality service for which they get paid enough to be able to afford the expensive equipment. Some individuals with established high end following also sometimes choose Baselight for creative reasons. And in all those cases, the cost of Baselight is not an issue...
Click to expand...

I see it differently. We work on a big series / project for warner bros they now handle most of the post inhouse here and pretty much hire individuals for the different tasks and their post producers very much look at costs for app licences and such. But sure still lot of big post facilites got the most costly of gear and top shelf brand of things to lure clients in but the tides are changing for sure and the post industry is very much going from being a investor/tech industry to a talent/artist driven industry.

And if I was to set up a bigger post department today I would not look at where the ball is now, as quite a few of those big posthouse dragons are really struggling, but more towards where it is likly to land. And it is clearly so that the kids today are not picking up mistika,flame,avid, baselight or nuke. The bigger part of the next generation will go towards resolve and fusion at least thats what happens here.

I think BM is very closse to a tipping point where more and more post producers see the benefit of staying within one app. Not saying that one person should be able to master editing/grading/compositing/soundmix and mastring but to do all that within a system has masive benefits and BM is seriously close to have it all together. While Atutodesk,adobe,avid and the others are kind of going in the oposite direction and are into making more product differentiation of thier different apps and also, try to come up with one scheme after the other to charge their userbase. Where as BM just aim to bring in more users. So far the BM tactics seams to have worked very well for them.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I see it differently. We work on a big series / project for warner bros they now handle most of the post inhouse here and pretty much hire individuals for the different tasks and their post producers very much look at costs for app licences and such. But sure still lot of big post facilites got the most costly of gear and top shelf brand of things to lure clients in but the tides are changing for sure and the post industry is very much going from being a investor/tech industry to a talent/artist driven industry.

And if I was to set up a bigger post department today I would not look at where the ball is now, as quite a few of those big posthouse dragons are really struggling, but more towards where it is likly to land. And it is clearly so that the kids today are not picking up mistika,flame,avid, baselight or nuke. The bigger part of the next generation will go towards resolve and fusion at least thats what happens here.

I think BM is very closse to a tipping point where more and more post producers see the benefit of staying within one app. Not saying that one person should be able to master editing/grading/compositing/soundmix and mastring but to do all that within a system has masive benefits and BM is seriously close to have it all together. While Atutodesk,adobe,avid and the others are kind of going in the oposite direction and are into making more product differentiation of thier different apps and also, try to come up with one scheme after the other to charge their userbase. Where as BM just aim to bring in more users. So far the BM tactics seams to have worked very well for them.
Click to expand...

I am well aware of your feelings about the talent and their worth, so no surprise there:)
Everyone can judge the state of production and post from their perspective. You are NOT in Hollywood, Vancouver, or NY where still the overwhelming majority of post for major TV and films is done. No one will consider going to Sweden to finish any of the big Hollywood tentpole movies with some unknown artist, regardless of price, sorry. Even the company you had mentioned- Warner Brothers, which still have post facilities on their own lot must compete for their own TV post business. The bottom line, unless you're Technicolor or Delux, you have zero chance to do the finish on those huge films, period. Those companies must crank out multiple deliverables under crazy deadlines, while trying to satisfy producers, directors, stars and their girlfriends. In all those cases, only ARTISTS can decide what tools they want to use. No one in the right mind will hire Steve Scott (he's at CO3 now), build him a brand new facility in Hollywood, hire his full team and then try to convince him to use Resolve.
Don't make me laugh...
 
The USA and Canada are not the only countries in the world where they make movies and TV shows.
In Bollywood, Nollywood, Chinawood they probably don't even know who Steve Scott is. What they do know is that they have to serve 3 billion potential customers living in their own area.
China is actively blocking most US (and other foreign) content, in India they don't care about US (and other foreign) content and produce more content than the USA and Canada combined and in Nigeria they just copy everything from abroad or maker their own content, so no business there either.
At the moment the usage of BMD software is growing at a higher rate than any other content software (NLE/Grading).
And that growth will only continu because of the one stop shopping(hard and software) for a affordable price for many.

Other NLE's need to earn money on their software, for BMD it's a business generator.
 
Misha Engel said:
The USA and Canada are not the only countries in the world where they make movies and TV shows.
In Bollywood, Nollywood, Chinawood they probably don't even know who Steve Scott is. What they do know is that they have to serve 3 billion potential customers living in their own area.
China is actively blocking most US (and other foreign) content, in India they don't care about US (and other foreign) content and produce more content than the USA and Canada combined and in Nigeria they just copy everything from abroad or maker their own content, so no business there either.
At the moment the usage of BMD software is growing at a higher rate than any other content software (NLE/Grading).
And that growth will only continu because of the one stop shopping(hard and software) for a affordable price for many.

Other NLE's need to earn money on their software, for BMD it's a business generator.
Click to expand...

Read the original questions I was answering...

"I would really like to hear why you feel that way about Resolve and why you feel Baselight has the "best color foundation in the business". Can you expand? Even if it's only a few summarising sentences. (And just to be absolutely clear: there is no irony or provocation here, I just like to know why you feel that way—knowing that you have lots of hands on time with both)."

Andree got his answer and the rest is a tangent I have zero interest in participating, especially with you...
P.S. Just for the record, worldwide box office biggest movies:
https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-records/worldwide/all-movies/cumulative/released-in-2019
Technicolor has offices all over the world, including Shanghai, Bangalore, London and many more.
Last time I checked, Technicolor MPC in Shanghai has Baselights.
 
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