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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Interchangable OLPFs

I just got my BT Scarlet, which, by the color of the glass at the sensor, seems to be the V2. I also notice that the fixture looks exactly the same as the one in the demonstration video wherein the OLPF is swapped. I assume this means that it's already physically set up for swapping in new OLPFs, but still needs the one-time fimrware update. Is this correct?
 
Brett, no. We will do a global hard cutover to the swappable system all at once at the end of this month. For now, all cameras shipping are fixed OLPF - both hardware and firmware.
 
@ Bret Harrison , I assume you mean BT Dragon Scarlet as swapable olpfs can't happen on MX Scarlet .
 
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When Can we place orders to Field upgrade our new Dragons? We are going into a shoot that we will be doing lots of low light work The 2nd week of th month and want to know if we can squeeze the OLPF in no pun intended
 
Today is the last day of the month. Anyone know if the hard cutover has happened and the swappable system is available?
 
Does Dragon need filtration?

Does Dragon need filtration?

With all the new options for OLPFs in the works, does Dragon now (or for those who have tested all the currently available OLPFs) need filtration of any kind?
 
Elsie N said:
With all the new options for OLPFs in the works, does Dragon now (or for those who have tested all the currently available OLPFs) need filtration of any kind?
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For at least the Low Light Optimized and Skin Tone - Highlight OLPFs you don't need special IRNDs. Regular NDs work just fine:

Phil Holland said:
Back to business with a quick daylight skin test, in this case White Balanced to chart I dropped out of frame. Did this with a single sheet of Opal Frost to get a nice transition of highlight through soft shadow, hence the hand in frame and my rather pensive look. Additionally I'm wearing a pure black shirt and with ND it's not turning reddish brown or having a big magenta shift. It's actually doing pretty well. Not really a huge shift on the house wall or window color either.

First no ND:




Next my slightly blue-ish ND 1.8:




That looks pretty damn good to me. Though it reminds me I need to get my hair cut today.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Phil, so I take it you don't see a need for polies or such for image capture improvement, and maybe no specialty filters (pro-mist etc) except for aesthetic choices? Or maybe that can be accomplished easily in post?

EDIT: I see you used filtration in the examples above. Isn't that something to do with the Alexa look? If so, will there likely be an OLPF that does the same?

BTW, each image above could be considered very good when taken out of context as a standalone image. Seems even ND is an aesthetic choilce.
 
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I think Phil put up diffusion to kill the harshness of direct sunlight on subject (himself), thus softening the transition between highlight and shadow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there does not appear to be any filtration on camera. Plus, diffusion filtration on camera would defeat, or interfere with, the ability to examine how the OLPF is performing.

ND would be an aesthetic choice. You're standardly manipulating DoF by its inclusion, and not altering the quality of the incoming photons. Quantity yes...
 
Elsie N said:
Thanks Phil, so I take it you don't see a need for polies or such for image capture improvement, and maybe no specialty filters (pro-mist etc) except for aesthetic choices? Or maybe that can be accomplished easily in post?

EDIT: I see you used filtration in the examples above. Isn't that something to do with the Alexa look? If so, will there likely be an OLPF that does the same?

BTW, each image above could be considered very good when taken out of context as a standalone image. Seems even ND is an aesthetic choilce.
Click to expand...

No need for polarizers unless you are trying to tune reflections or use them for some other reason. If you're talking the aesthetic-type of filtration in regards to low con, mists, etc... you can still use that.

I used a sheet of Opal Frost next to me to diffuse the sunlight so I looked all pretty :) But actually, Opal Frost is one of the most common (and one of my favorite types) filtration you'll find on sets. So this was a "common real world example".

The ND added in the 2nd shot is there to shoot at T2 rather than T16. The good news here is there isn't a drastic IR shift like Mysterium-X exhibits, which is why you "should" be using IRNDs protection on MX if exploring ND densities above .9 really.

One other thing to mention, Dragon handles tungsten way better than MX. I used to use a blue filter a lot in front of MX to help produce cleaner images. Dragon's sensor is a whole different thing really and allows for very good results with various color temperatures.


Eryc Tramonn said:
I think Phil put up diffusion to kill the harshness of direct sunlight on subject (himself), thus softening the transition between highlight and shadow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there does not appear to be any filtration on camera. Plus, diffusion filtration on camera would defeat, or interfere with, the ability to examine how the OLPF is performing.

ND would be an aesthetic choice. You're standardly manipulating DoF by its inclusion, and not altering the quality of the incoming photons. Quantity yes...
Click to expand...

Yep. The diffusion on the key light is there to just to make the subject matter more pleasing and to mimic a fairly common shooting condition.

You can certainly add all sorts of filtration in front of the lens if you want that effect. Elsie discussed "need" and Dragon doesn't "need" anything special to get good images out of it and this is a huge massive plus.
 
Phil Holland said:
No need for polarizers unless you are trying to tune reflections or use them for some other reason. If you're talking the aesthetic-type of filtration in regards to low con, mists, etc... you can still use that.

I used a sheet of Opal Frost next to me to diffuse the sunlight so I looked all pretty :) But actually, Opal Frost is one of the most common (and one of my favorite types) filtration you'll find on sets. So this was a "common real world example".

The ND added in the 2nd shot is there to shoot at T2 rather than T16. The good news here is there isn't a drastic IR shift like Mysterium-X exhibits, which is why you "should" be using IRNDs protection on MX if exploring ND densities above .9 really.

One other thing to mention, Dragon handles tungsten way better than MX. I used to use a blue filter a lot in front of MX to help produce cleaner images. Dragon's sensor is a whole different thing really and allows for very good results with various color temperatures.




Yep. The diffusion on the key light is there to just to make the subject matter more pleasing and to mimic a fairly common shooting condition.

You can certainly add all sorts of filtration in front of the lens if you want that effect. Elsie discussed "need" and Dragon doesn't "need" anything special to get good images out of it and this is a huge massive plus.
Click to expand...
Phil, those were the exact words I was hoping to read.

I'm neither schooled or even apprenticed as a DOP (other than from what I read here on REDuser.) It is comforting to know that if I get all the information available from a scene, I can take that piece of RAW clay and knead it into a form required as the basis to cast a beautiful statuesque movie.

I do not believe I had a chance to reach that level before RED which allows me to make a movie as a jack-of-all trades but a master of none.
 
sergio arguello said:
would this be considered the end of the month? and therefore we can assume this program is starting?
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Update...

* As you can see by Phil's posts that he and a few others have had the modular OLPF update to their cameras. Feedback has been very positive.
* We will be cutting this in to new camera production starting tomorrow. So if your DRAGON camera has not begun order processing by the end of the day today, it will be processed with the new modular OLPF system.
* We will also be cutting it in to the upgrade process. Any camera that is going from M-X to DRAGON sensor that has not begun the upgrade process by the end of the day today will be getting the new modular system.
* Cameras in repair will not automatically get the new system. This is a voluntary update so we are not assuming everyone wants it. So, if you do want it installed at the time of repair, please let your RMA rep know.
* We have a good sized list of people who have already requested to send in their camera to have the update done at an authorized RED service center. Confirmations to receive an RMA will start being issued tomorrow as well. Please make sure you get an RMA to have this done, don't just pop by, camera in hand.
* For the brave souls wishing to explore option of updating themselves, we have confirmed a DIY process. Documentation is about wrapped up. Next will be a video showing the process. In addition, we are making a custom, machined tool for you to be able to properly clamp on the rubber gasket you will be removing. Those are being machined as we speak. As soon as the whole DIY kit is ready, we will reach out to the people who showed interest in this option.
 
Brent@RED said:
* For the brave souls wishing to explore option of updating themselves, we have confirmed a DIY process. Documentation is about wrapped up. Next will be a video showing the process. In addition, we are making a custom, machined tool for you to be able to properly clamp on the rubber gasket you will be removing. Those are being machined as we speak. As soon as the whole DIY kit is ready, we will reach out to the people who showed interest in this option.
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bring it!
 
Yes, sir. We're on the same page, Phil.

Been doing this professionally for a bit now, but the Internet seems to be the great n00b equalizer. :)

IMO, the best filmmakers have a scientific approach in order to yield repeatable results under various conditions. Those are craftsmen. Go a step farther and combine the scientific with artistry to convey mood and meaning, and you arrive at a film artist.

On the scientific exposure end of things, personally, I have found proper sensor calibration (BS) to be fundamental to achieving great results on the EPIC (DRAGON or otherwise). The shooter has to set a proper baseline for all the other colorimetry variables to register correctly.

The problem I have noticed on sets, all too often, people don't truly understand the gear they are using. Truthfully. That may make me sound like an egoist (I'm not, I know I don't know anything and I'm not afraid to admit it). However, there is a big difference between owning a camera, and working with rentals. Even frequent renters often do not have the same depth of experience. And I've noticed the modular capabilities of the EPIC seems to freak out ACs. Oddly, it seems there are too many permutations possible for "professional" sets. Intuition says the opposite would be true, for me.

Owning allows time for experimentation, and learning the idiosyncrasies of your tool. I have been on a number of sets where we moved from chilled interiors, into hot exteriors, and no BS calibration was performed. Stuff like that makes me cringe because there is rarely an easy way to deal with it, unless you are in control of the set.

The trick seems to be understanding that the system is designed to work for individual needs, and case-by-case shooting requirements. Then a person needs to develop best practice exposure techniques for themselves, and that largely depends on individual goals again. But that written, the wide exposure latitude possible within the DRAGON platform seems to lend to an ETTR protocol.

FWIW
 
Brent@RED said:
* For the brave souls wishing to explore option of updating themselves, we have confirmed a DIY process. Documentation is about wrapped up. Next will be a video showing the process. In addition, we are making a custom, machined tool for you to be able to properly clamp on the rubber gasket you will be removing. Those are being machined as we speak. As soon as the whole DIY kit is ready, we will reach out to the people who showed interest in this option.
Click to expand...

eheh i am in :devil:
 
Elsie N said:
Phil, those were the exact words I was hoping to read.

I'm neither schooled or even apprenticed as a DOP (other than from what I read here on REDuser.) It is comforting to know that if I get all the information available from a scene, I can take that piece of RAW clay and knead it into a form required as the basis to cast a beautiful statuesque movie.

I do not believe I had a chance to reach that level before RED which allows me to make a movie as a jack-of-all trades but a master of none.
Click to expand...


Elsie,

That's the cool thing about the age we live in: you don't have to be "schooled" in anything. Information is readily available. And a large percentage of these tools on-set/practical usage is subjective anyway. The playing field in many regards has been leveled. Just gotta get out and shoot. As for the DRAGON's capabilities, yes, it will generate what you want under damn near any condition provided we proceed with an understanding of the tool.

Plus, aesthetics are always changing. What is now acceptable would likely have seen DoPs fired in the not-too-distant past; thank YouTube for that. :)
 
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