INFO FROM MY BOMBSQUAD REP ON WEAPON UPGRADE

[Frank Hague]

Correct. It's a 1:1 trade in for the $950 per mag.

Whoa whoa whoa we get a 1:1 store credit on our normal Redmags (not the Minimags but the bigger ones)? So how much would I get for trading in my 256gb and my two 128s?

 

[vincent kardasik]

Totally separate deal. Simple (I hope, haha), you place an order for Red Mini- mag 512 GB cards in the quantity you want to send in of the 1.8" Redmags (64 GB or higher). Send us back those Redmags and we credit you $950 per mag. One shot deal. Credit is one for one, Redmag for Mini-mag.

That's a really good news!
Thanks Red... And Mark Toia!

 

[John Brennick]

Whoa whoa whoa we get a 1:1 store credit on our normal Redmags (not the Minimags but the bigger ones)? So how much would I get for trading in my 256gb and my two 128s?

I was told by my rep that all mags, regardless of size, equate to $950 credit.

 

[Jarred Land]

Brent,
You said:



I may be missing something, but that seems to conflict with what Jarred said here:



As a response to this:



Jarred's response led me to believe, and the rep that I showed it to you on the floor before making my deposit with him (and maybe others) that the credit would be applied to the price bundle (or package).
I believe that this was further confused because when the Mag. Weapon was announced Jarred posted a pic of the brain only but linked to the package http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?130606-Announcing-WEAPON-DRAGON-6k-Magnesium

That led me to believe that the "Brian only" package was actually not for sale, and that a package with the Brain and accessories was being sold. But according to Jarred, when you are "invoiced" (very different from "after you pay") "the credit will be applied bundles as well yes." So I read that as I will receive an invoice, with a credit of $5000 dollars on it (plus $15,500), and then I pay the balance.

I am not actually that upset, as I may need to buy the Redvolt expander for phantom power. But I think there may be the real possibility that two official messages have been sent by RED at different times, and that people made real large financial decisions based on that info. Decisions for which I have to answer to my higher ups.

So, what did Jarred mean by that statement? And if RED agrees that it may have led some of us to make a purchase decision (in the time between that statement and your clarification) based on that info, confirmed by official reps, then isn't it reasonable to come to some sort of compromise with people? (I'd suggest something like allowing the Base Expander amount to go toward a REDVOLT Expander.)

Thoughts?

Hey Reuben Understand the confusion. The announcement for the Weapon model was for the brain only as that is what a new WMG comes as for $34.5. The link to the store was for the upgrade package because the MG Weapon cannot be purchased in the store until our existing customers are taken of with the upgrade option.

As for the credit statement, again my reply needs to be taken in context. The Question I was answering was if the $5000 was an additional credit on top of the bundle, or if it represented the value of the bundle since they both represent $5000 ( at least that is how I read the question ) My answer was intended to state that there is an additional $5000 credit above the bundle items on your actual invoice. I can see how the statement alone could be taken the other way though.

Originally Posted by Daniel Reed
Thanks Jarred. Is the $5,000 accessory credit an addition to the items bundled w/ the $5K deposit package, or is the credit refering to the items in the bundle? (hope that question made sense, heh)

• 1 WEAPON BRAIN (Magnesium) w/ Integrated Media Bay
• 1 WEAPON Sidekick (Magnesium)
• 1 WEAPON Base Expander
• 1 WEAPON REDVOLT XL Module
• 1 WEAPON Top Handle
• 1 WEAPON Lemo Adaptor A
• 1 WEAPON Package Case
• 1 1-Year Standard Warranty

Regardless... It appears that the accessory bundle isn't the most popular option anyways, so we are running the numbers to see if we can give you an alternative.

then isn't it reasonable to come to some sort of compromise with people?

I know this is hard to follow, But your above statement is true.. and I hope it is actually better in the long game because it lets us modify and compromise based on all the feedback from the week.

 

[Reuben Evans]

Jarred,
Thank you for the quick (and late reply)! I appreciate your willingness to work through my comments. I just want to say that I do video primarily for a technology company. And the way RED is deploying new tech, with the desire to keep existing users in the mix is basically the only way to do this kind of thing. It is crazy but last time we laid out our upgrade paths for our existing customers we ended up with more than 64 paths! But I can tell that RED places a priority on taking care of its users and pushing technology. As your customer base grows and as your ability to develop new technology quickens the tension between those two values increases.

We believe the only way to mitigate that tension is through valuing honesty and openness, but of course that fights against surprise and anticipation.

But you guys are doing the very hard work of keeping true to your values in the middle of all this. I think it will pay off for all of us.

Thank you.

 

[Jarred Land]

Correct. It's a 1:1 trade in for the $950 per mag.

Whoa whoa whoa we get a 1:1 store credit on our normal Redmags (not the Minimags but the bigger ones)? So how much would I get for trading in my 256gb and my two 128s?

holly smokes the misfires Frank Phil didn't mean 1:1 dollar value, he meant 1 to 1 units.

 

[Phil Holland]

holly smokes the misfires Frank Phil didn't mean 1:1 dollar value, he meant 1 to 1 units.

lol. I thought I said that right. I put the $950 right in there!

Yeesh.

Yes each 1.8" REDMAG is worth $950 as a trade in for each 512GB MINI-MAG you purchase. REDMAGs 64GB and higher are eligible.

And yes, this is a hell of an awesome thing for RED to do.

 

[Jarred Land]

Jarred,
Thank you for the quick (and late reply)! I appreciate your willingness to work through my comments. I just want to say that I do video primarily for a technology company. And the way RED is deploying new tech, with the desire to keep existing users in the mix is basically the only way to do this kind of thing. It is crazy but last time we laid out our upgrade paths for our existing customers we ended up with more than 64 paths! But I can tell that RED places a priority on taking care of its users and pushing technology. As your customer base grows and as your ability to develop new technology quickens the tension between those two values increases.

We believe the only way to mitigate that tension is through valuing honesty and openness, but of course that fights against surprise and anticipation.

But you guys are doing the very hard work of keeping true to your values in the middle of all this. I think it will pay off for all of us.

Thank you.

Thanks Reuben that means alot. We actually go through this every time we do this upgrade thing.. it is the same thing every few years.

We annonce stuff, someone gets left out and someone starts yelling that we did the wrong thing and some people get pissed off, we then all fight about it for a week and push and pull and then come to a better place than we all started.

seriously... it happens every time.

And all the drama doesn't mean it is wrong... its what happens when you let your customers be part of the process.

The biggest issue here I think is that Weapon is the top of the food chain.. but people want it to be the middle. Or at least they want it to be priced in the middle, even though the Weapon in reality is priced lower than the when the Epic was released. The Weapon CF is at a lower price than the Carbon dragon when it was released.

In another thread someone asked " why don't you make a lower priced Weapon with just the Epic specs, we don't need anything else" and then proceed to add all the required features that it must have that only the top Weapon can do

 

[Reuben Evans]

Thanks Reuben that means alot. We actually go through this every time we do this upgrade thing....
The biggest issue here I think is that weapon is the top of the food chain.. but people want it to be the middle. Or at least they want it to be priced in the middle, even though the Weapon in reality is priced lower than the when the Epic was released.

Yeah, this is my first time to go through the upgrade cycle with RED, but I'm very glad it exists I think some people just didn't hear that if they stay with their existing Dragons that they could move forward to the next sensor family (with greater costs). I think they felt that if they didn't go to Weapon, that why were being left behind. And if you chose to stay at Epic Dragon, you went from top dog to #2 compared to people with Weapon. That's a tough pill to swallow, and that pride of ownership and status is tied directly to the prestige of the brand.

But RED, essentially, had no choice- if you want to stay ahead in this game, the stakes had to be raised. Preserving RED's reputation as absolutely cutting edge is vital to livelihoods of everybody who shoots RED, no matter which camera we happen to use.

 

[Carl Dieker]

Since RED made the Weapon official last Monday, members here on reduser have been firing off posts in all kinds of different directions. When the smoke now seems to somewhat have settled, one would hope there would be a clear view of the target of upgrading. However, the clearing of gun smoke seems not to have been enough, at least for me, to be able to distinguish the separate scorings zones of the upgrade target face. Though, all the clarifications made by RED so far, with regards to the various colors of the upgrade face, seem to have been really advantageous. What I am aiming at, how is it going with that visual representation that was promised here on reduser? I mean the official one from RED that would illustrate in graphics the different rules of engagement for transforming an epic dragon into a stealth weapon. The one that would not leave any room for misinterpretations or, as in this case, aiming errors. Has that chart been put up here somewhere and I've missed its location? Or are the details still being worked out and won’t be revealed until, perhaps, the coming week, which in that case, at least for some of few us, would leave extra time before pulling the trigger.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

The biggest issue here I think is that Weapon is the top of the food chain.. but people want it to be the middle. Or at least they want it to be priced in the middle, even though the Weapon in reality is priced lower than the when the Epic was released. The Weapon CF is at a lower price than the Carbon dragon when it was released.

In another thread someone asked " why don't you make a lower priced Weapon with just the Epic specs, we don't need anything else" and then proceed to add all the required features that it must have that only the top Weapon can do

Hehehe. This made me grin my biggest grin of the day.

Seriously Jarred, through all the moaning and complaining and getting thrown ideas and requests at - the fact that you (and Brent and all the others) stay up, read the comments, give your calm feedback and actually listen and react to what is being said is nothing short of amazing.

This is one of the top two reasons I'm trying to back you guys as much as I can. You're nothing short of a rockstar. Call me a fanboy - I don't care. I truly deeply respect and love what you do for us. Thank you. I love being part of it - with tears, smiles and all.

 

[ignition]

Can anyone confirm, per my Bomb Squad Rep's advice, that the $5000 equipment credit can only be used AFTER you've paid in full for your >Weapon upgrade AND have had the camera turned around (upgraded & returned) by RED?

The advice I was received was
"Once your DRAGON-to-WEAPON upgrade is complete and shipped back to you, RED will apply a $5,000 credit to your account that you can use"

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Hi Jarred,
It might sound funny, but why don't just declare a $10,000 accessories credit along with just the brain and ssd module alone? From where I see it, that's exactly what you are giving (which BTW is awesomely generous) except the first $5,000 comes in pre determined accessories while the second $5,000 is free choose.
However, if you declare $10,000 accessories credit + only brain & ssd module, then anybody can choose to their exact flavor and there's no way anybody would say they can't configure a working package and that the transition isn't as easy as it can get, which I think is your goal.

At the end of the day, I sure do hope RED is making profit from this upgrade process, cause no matter how much we all raise our issues the truth of the matter is that most people still generate income (and a healthy profit) from using RED cameras, not claiming people earn their profit solely because Red cameras exist but at least the cameras are part of the profiting mechanisms.
Just my little suggestion.

 

[Jay Kim]

Hi Jarred,
It might sound funny, but why don't just declare a $10,000 accessories credit along with just the brain and ssd module alone? From where I see it, that's exactly what you are giving (which BTW is awesomely generous) except the first $5,000 comes in pre determined accessories while the second $5,000 is free choose.
However, if you declare $10,000 accessories credit + only brain & ssd module, then anybody can choose to their exact flavor and there's no way anybody would say they can't configure a working package and that the transition isn't as easy as it can get, which I think is your goal.

For the CF Weapon upgrade, it is more like $9,000 free bundle plus $5,000 accessories credit so the total would be about $14,000.

 

[Trevor Meier]

Jarred & Brent - thanks for fighting through it all, sticking to your values while being responsive and listening to us as we all work through this.

A request - can you give us a couple days to decide on the VV 8K upgrade *after* any changes to the upgrade program? Reason is, it's just out of reach for guys like me (indie docs climbing the Himalaya) but it would be so, so perfect for that kind of epic (heh) work. Tweaking the accessory credit and discount might just make it possible.

Exciting times!

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Can we use the $5000 credit-after-weapon-upgrade money and use it for this?
And do Education discounts apply to this?

if any student owns Red, dont think he ll need a discount

 

[Milan S.]

The biggest issue here I think is that Weapon is the top of the food chain.. but people want it to be the middle. Or at least they want it to be priced in the middle, even though the Weapon in reality is priced lower than the when the Epic was released. The Weapon CF is at a lower price than the Carbon dragon when it was released.

I think the problem is the Epic form has reached the end of the road.
The only way to stay on the upgrade path and not make our cameras obsolete in the (near) future is to upgrade to Weapon, correct?

Like you pointed out, Weapon is priced lower than Epic was - but the price of the upgrade almost doubled. This is the stumbling block.

Thank you for listening!

 

[Jarred Land]

Since RED made the Weapon official last Monday, members here on reduser have been firing off posts in all kinds of different directions. When the smoke now seems to somewhat have settled, one would hope there would be a clear view of the target of upgrading. However, the clearing of gun smoke seems not to have been enough, at least for me, to be able to distinguish the separate scorings zones of the upgrade target face. Though, all the clarifications made by RED so far, with regards to the various colors of the upgrade face, seem to have been really advantageous. What I am aiming at, how is it going with that visual representation that was promised here on reduser? I mean the official one from RED that would illustrate in graphics the different rules of engagement for transforming an epic dragon into a stealth weapon. The one that would not leave any room for misinterpretations or, as in this case, aiming errors. Has that chart been put up here somewhere and I've missed its location? Or are the details still being worked out and won’t be revealed until, perhaps, the coming week, which in that case, at least for some of few us, would leave extra time before pulling the trigger.

Hey Carl still working on it... the deadlines will be extended until we get that up.

 

[Grant Smucker]

Thanks Reuben that means alot. We actually go through this every time we do this upgrade thing.. it is the same thing every few years.

We annonce stuff, someone gets left out and someone starts yelling that we did the wrong thing and some people get pissed off, we then all fight about it for a week and push and pull and then come to a better place than we all started.

seriously... it happens every time.

And all the drama doesn't mean it is wrong... its what happens when you let your customers be part of the process.

The biggest issue here I think is that Weapon is the top of the food chain.. but people want it to be the middle. Or at least they want it to be priced in the middle, even though the Weapon in reality is priced lower than the when the Epic was released. The Weapon CF is at a lower price than the Carbon dragon when it was released.

In another thread someone asked " why don't you make a lower priced Weapon with just the Epic specs, we don't need anything else" and then proceed to add all the required features that it must have that only the top Weapon can do

THIS! x10000000. This tells me that RED gets it.

The problem is most of us complaining are the ones on the bottom (Scarlets, etc), myself being at the Scarlet-X level. We've tasted the RED juice and want to continue with the latest and greatest, but most of us prob can't afford the top of the line. My scarlet still shoots amazing images (nothing has changed) and I will continue to get a lot of use out of it to come. I'm bummed I won't be able to stay on the upgrade train but I will continue saving to buy my next RED outright. I think the big thing for me is I'm ok with not having the latest and greatest, but I wish the older models would come down in price when new versions are announced.

 

[Trevor Meier]

Thanks Jarred!!!