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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I'm so bored...

Jay Birch said:
Don't get me wrong... I'm 90% likely to buy the RED offering, I just don't see the point of all the sniggering. Neither camera will be perfect for everybody.
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It's called fanboyism.

Even RED isn't perfect. I mean, 2500$ for a 7" display? come on, that's just ridiculous.
But i'll still be buying Red, because it appears to be slightly better than what the competition has to offer.
 
As an engineer and inexperienced cinematographer, here's my take - if you purchase RED, you are purchasing an incredibly powerful image processor capable of previously unheard-of image processing (light fields?), RedCineX, effectively raw video, scalability, and in-camera playback of all that. You pay a flat rate up front for continuous software improvements, transparent customer communication, and the ability to upgrade hardware. Finally, you get mind-blowing images and infinite creative freedom.

It's not a question of which pro camera you should get.

It's a question of whether other companies will be able to match RED's framework, or offer a compromise.
 
Bored. Riiiight.
Just a guess, but I bet Jim isn't big on golf.

Time for a new "Big scary animal" shot. On Scarlet.
 
Steven,
I agree with you on some of the prices I see, from LCD screens, Tripod heads, Pieces of metal to connect things, its not just Red but the whole Pro industry. Grant you some things like the Touch Screen LCD, to make it rugged, and hold up and in small runs, does cost more. But when I see 1500 buck for a piece of machined metal, well I drew the line after my Red 1, I went out and bought a CNC desktop mill, and do my own designs for those metal bits I need, I think it will pay for itself several times over when I start making the items for my Epic

Ron
 
@ Ron -I hear ya, I do some of the same stuff. I would like to point out by the time I add in the cost of my time, spending a day or two on a do-hicky would cost more than the "inflated" cost of some of the pro gear. When I create a part or apparatus or whatever, it usually solves a problem that I cannot solve any other way. In fact the new plasma torch is on the way to solve one of those problems. If I can buy something that solves the problem, I usually do.

The pro-gear makers have usually tested a bit more than me as well. And don't forget resell. Most of my one off things collect dust in my garage, while all the ET gear fetches 80% of the initial investment. So, for my sanity, i don't see it as a expensive $1500 part, I see it as a $300 indefinite rental.

All my energy is better spent honing my craft and that craft isn't manufacturing.. that part is just a hobby :-) .02
 
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so Canon rumors has it as this http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/11/canon-eos-300c-cr1/ I will laugh in canons face... literally fly to japan and laugh if this is what they are bringing in 7 hours an af100 COMPETITOR AFTER ALL THIS?
Name: Canon EOS 300C
EF and PL Versions
Dual CF Card Slots
Built in ND
Super35 Sensor
HDMI and HDSDI out
Hot shoe mounted monitor w/ 2 XLR ins
1920 x 1080 resolution
Also is able to record out of SDI
 
The more I think about it the more I realize that the cameras announced today will be for different groups of people. Or, there may be some folks who use both. Not sure why Jim has tried so hard to pick a fight here. I'm not sure that either will be for me, but I'm looking forward to seeing some new tools that I can potentially use in the future.
 
Do agree there,
I see it as therapy when working in the shop, and with the CAD/Cam program on my laptop I design the parts on the plane and then let it rip when I get home. In the end it may cost more with my time invested, and I also bought the equipment to anodize the parts in black, red, and yellow, some have some odd bits hanging of the camera. My best item though was a mount for my jeep in south africa, goes above the windscreen and lets my connect a swing arm I made that holds a 100mm bowl head. Then when in the bush I can just pop up (the front section on the wrangler roof is removable) and take my shots. Safer then getting out with the lions and tigers and bears.

So I agree, some what of a time sink, but I do love it, never thought High School shop class would help me today

Ron
 
Ron Reddick said:
Steven,
I agree with you on some of the prices I see, from LCD screens, Tripod heads, Pieces of metal to connect things, its not just Red but the whole Pro industry. Grant you some things like the Touch Screen LCD, to make it rugged, and hold up and in small runs, does cost more. But when I see 1500 buck for a piece of machined metal, well I drew the line after my Red 1, I went out and bought a CNC desktop mill, and do my own designs for those metal bits I need, I think it will pay for itself several times over when I start making the items for my Epic

Ron
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To be honest I do expect to pay for a well designed LCD with high resolution that controls through touchscreen. Guys, you have to understand the time that goes into the development, the engineering, the machining, outsourcing and countless hours and expense spent on the actual prototypes, etc. $1500 is a great deal for a touchscreen lcd when you take those expenses into account. The camera bodies on the other hand are a different story.

What I don't understand is the cost of the EPIC bodies, etc. The cost of the aluminum that is machined is very inexpensive and several can be machined a day. I create pro level sliders, cage systems, etc and I know the expense of metal and working with aluminum and vendors. I am not claiming to have any knowledge close to the geniuses at RED and I'm sure there are many other factors working electronics into an aluminum housing, but low quantity machining is a much less expensive choice actually than mold making, casting bodies, etc. It seems like machined bodies are a better option and definitely nicer, but selling it as a more elite and expensive process in small runs normally isn't the case.

I would imagine RED has their own machine shop or at least can prototype their own systems and handle small runs of the Epic bodies. Anyhow the cost of the machined body is way less than most would expect. The parts are nice indeed, but nothing a mid range CNC machine can't handle using 3 or 4 axis machining.

What is surprising is we are basically paying (we'll not me yet) almost $40,000 for the system of an epic M body alone and much more as a system complete. This has to be a huge profit and could be brought to the table way less for sure. If RED sells only 1000 EPICs the total gross is over 40 million for brains/bodies alone. I believe they are close to selling that now if they haven't already gone over that. And think about how many RED One's have been sold.

I can't imagine the development of RED has cost anywhere near that amount so they must be doing great. With all that profit I don't see how they can't pump out things just a tad bit faster. In a free market economy things are priced based on supply and demand. Red seems to have a very good way of keeping things in high demand. I just hope the price point of the scarlet is where we all anticipate.

The launch of the new Canon, I was hoping would be closer to RED so Red and others would have to level the playing field on camera body price. I hope to see the Scarlet much more realistic than the EPIC in terms of pricing.

All that being said, based on the pricing of other cameras, Alexa, etc, RED is still much less expensive and a higher resolution system.

I guess they know what they are doing and do have to plan for future proofing their system, and no doubt some of the profits and higher costs are associated with a team of software developers who they are constantly paying to update the software which is offered for free.
 
I'd like to suggest that we all do RED proud and AVOID BASHING OTHER COMPANIES on here.. Come on guys. No one is above complaints and weaknesses.. Even RED.. They have their flaws too.

To pit one against the other, and insult another company simply hurts our own credibility. My first video camera was a Canon XL-1.. And back then it was amazing. Now I own an Epic, but also have a Canon 5D which I love.

Horses for courses.

Jay
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
I'd like to suggest that we all do RED proud and AVOID BASHING OTHER COMPANIES on here.. Come on guys. No one is above complaints and weaknesses.. Even RED.. They have their flaws too.

To pit one against the other, and insult another company simply hurts our own credibility. My first video camera was a Canon XL-1.. And back then it was amazing. Now I own an Epic, but also have a Canon 5D which I love.

Horses for courses.

Jay
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My first "video" camera was an XL-1 as well and I loved that and upgraded to the XL-2 eventually, XH A1 and now own several 5D Mark II's , L Series Lenses, and even 3 60 D setups. However for any cinema I shot film as I never liked the image from the 35mm adapter look. I went to film school and understood that medium so for any indie shorts, etc always shot and loved film. Those other cameras had their place while I shot weddings, corp etc.

These all have their place and in no way compete with RED as a professional cinema tool. I think we are just hoping to see more technology faster than the major manufacturers want to deliver it. We're all "gear geeks" at heart here right.

It seems the users on this forum are interested more in Cinema which is why we are anticipating so much more from Canon and RED in the future, but it looks like Canon has a different outlook for a more prosumer or "video" market. Honestly one can expect the machine at Canon knows which camera will bring in more profit.
 
Always liked Canon products. My 5 year old GL2 is still seeing frequent use. Used it as a front end camera for a video conference demo yesterday. My wife is using it to produce DVD demonstrations of pastel and oil painting techniques. It will remain in the inventory for as long as it is functional. It has paid for itself many times over.

Canon has always served the prosumer and entry level pro market very well.
 
For Canon to get me excited, all they need to do is create an "L series" cinema lens with gears for focus instead of motors for sub $2,000 per lens.

Now THAT would be super cool.. And I'd be on it in a second.

Jay
 
A button... you mean like this?

children_s_coat_button.summ.jpg


Glad I could help! ; )
 
Jannard said:
It is like watching paint dry around here... maybe tomorrow will be better? :-)

Jim
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Tomorrow is today. Yet, the announcement feels like an eternity away. I just hope we can put down deposits for Epic X, or I just might be tempted to put money down on the Scarlet. Even if its 3K. Ugh. I've so totally bought into the 4K mantra that I'll hate myself for it.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Tomorrow is today. Yet, the announcement feels like an eternity away. I just hope we can put down deposits for Epic X, or I just might be tempted to put money down on the Scarlet. Even if its 3K. Ugh. I've so totally bought into the 4K mantra that I'll hate myself for it.
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My how jaded we have become.

Tick... tick... tick...
 
If the canon rumours are correct! there will be a lot of willing takers for this camera if the codec is robust, 50Mbs or 100Mbs. It has SDI (if thats 10 bit there on to a winner), XLR perfect for local tv corporate etc. Worldwide a huge market for this camera format. Red is brill but! sound seems to be there real weakness as its not there with built in XLR, fine for some people a killer for others. if Red are aiming at the corporate - local TV market etc which is vast worldwide, the difference between 2K or 3K image won't make much of a difference but XLR do matter and input controls and meter do matter.

All good fun lets wait and see! Not long now.
 
I can't wait...I have basically checked Reduser just like so many others for the past 3 years waiting for Scarlet. I had $$ saved up, but because of the wait had to buy something (won't be mentioned on this forum) to get my by...barely. Hopefully I won't have to sell too many Apple stocks.
 
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