HYDROGEN preorders...

[Gregory Karydis]

They already replied - all good.

Good to hear that worked out!

Thanks for the nice photos, Phil!!!

It is sad to hear that for whatever reason a fellow REDuser may want to give up their pre-order but at the same time, I know there will be many willing to pick it up!

REDuser is how the greater number of Day 0 pre-orders were placed and since no advertising was made, it would make sense to check out now and then in the forums for an update.
That's how Red always worked for me and that openness is what makes it different to other companies.

Now, H4Vuser is part of the family!

We all get to do some legwork for the things that interest us. Let's meet in the middle.

 

[Remington Chase]

Is the new model Houdini going to have the new snapdragon? Can we change our orders to the new model? I heard the company is restructuring will our orders from a year ago still come first or will new Houdini orders get priority?

 

[Marc Oberdorfer]

Hey Marc

No we are not. There has been a delay due to certifications complications.

Check out the h4vuser.net site to keep updated.

It would be nice to get an email from Red about this. That's the very least and there is no excuse. If you promise to deliver a product at a certain point in time that's one matter but then not notifying your customers is another.

We can't be expected to scavenge the internet for information, I didn't even know there is a new website for this, I'm actually working most of the time and not killing time on the net procrastinating. Not all of us keep checkig Reduser for updates and it shouldn't be a customers responsibility to find out about this stuff by themselves! So... off to the site to check the info.... Jim wrote....

A. We will ship you a special pre-release HYDROGEN One called “Houdini”. It will be a PVT version. There will be software updates before release. It will pass certification and be available at least a month before the carrier launch. I’ll share updates regarding the fix as soon as I get the info.

“Houdini” will come with an additional 128GB micro SD card for the external slot. It will be an unlocked phone.

It will come with complete release packaging plus an extra metal HYDROGEN icon sticker. If you have interest, I will happily sign the box. I’ll also set aside two days to deliver your HYDROGEN personally at RED Studios. These units can only be picked up or shipped to customers inside the US.

The Houdini model will come with an extended warranty at no charge. One year longer than normal. This will be the only “Houdini” Model ever released.

1. Ok for compensating the delay and us one year waiting pre-order nerds with an extra memory card and extra year of warranty....

2. Outrageously for US customers only!!?? ! ! ? What is this all about? To me that's a slap in my face and everyone else who has put down money blindly one year ago.

So in the end I put down my money, wait longer and get no compensation as others in the States do... how is this fair? You guys know that you'll piss everyone else outside of the US off with that policy... in the end it means I'll have to wait until anyone else can get a Hydrogen from a carrier and I'm not even get any benefit for pre-ordering at day 1?!

As Jim states they're contacting pre-order customers I'll wait for that because I have not received anything yet. If Red really cares about their customers they'll work out a fair solution which is the same for everyone who pre-ordered, I do not need to shoot Red. I choose to because I was satisfied so far but this is going in the opposite direction.

 

[Marc Oberdorfer]

I think you missed my point. I was fine with the sneak peak hardware being underwhelming. I was fine with the delays.

It's just the complete lack of communication which pisses me off. And posting on your own forum and expecting people to find it is not something ANY company with any sense of customer service does.

When there are delays (which are to be expected) you get ahead of it by communicating DIRECTLY to your customers. Not posting vague, open-to-intrepretation messages on your own forum.

What Tom says is 100% on point! I have run a trading company for two decades and the one thing I know is not notifying your customers about a delay is the worst thing you can do. A seller / company has to be proactive, at the end of the day any companies business is at the mercy of its customers.

 

[Marc Oberdorfer]

Something else that I and certainly everyone else is burning to know... what are the specs for 2D video, codecs etc?

H4V will be great and new and all that no question but I'm definitely interested in shooting commercial work in 2D and want to see what that will be like... I would like to think that so short before release (remember release was supposed this month) this should have been finalised... and the delay is because of a certification issue only for that matter... why can't we get at least specs... more info... again all boils down to lack of information. This is very frustrating.

 

[Brandon Klock]

You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. Red has made it very easy to find the latest info. You dont have to read all the threads to know whats happening. Your inability to quickly browse or look up Jim’s posts, which is the same as searching email and way better than facebook, is not Red’s fault. I for one like the current method. I get way too many daily crap emails as it is and stopped using fb altogether. As for specs, we have a good idea. Jim and others have stated that the specs cant be released for competitive reasons. That makes sense when you still have certification and other issues to sort out. You can opt out of pre-order and grab one they mass release it. You’ll have all the specs you want then

I feel the apple iphone is tired and am frustrated with that design and exo system. The rest of android phones dont appeal to me as they look and feel cheap. Hydrogen is a solution Im very interested in. It was worth it for me to pre-order. You have the right to wait for it to be released and see for yourself if you want it. Getting mad that someone offers a pre-order that doesnt meet YOUR requirements is idiotic. The preorders were discussed via the RedUser threads and further info and updates has come via those threads. Not happy, cancel and move on. Complaining about it “publicly” here by saying Red is incompetent and calling it a cult is dumb. So many better uses of your and our time!

Red Team - thanks for these forums and keeping us up-to-date with the pre-order process. These guys dont represent the rest of us!!!

 

[Björn Benckert]

Anyone that can give a brief update. I got 5 orders and live outside of the US. What is the options? Cancel the orders or wait? Wait until when? Any new set date for delivery?

As I understand the company delivering has changed, who is the owner / owner of that company?

 

[H Dewey]

All these complaints make me laugh, because they were aired on h4vuser.net ages ago. You were doing fine in the "ignorance is bliss" state until just a few days ago... and Jim said he is going to email everyone with a pre-order, outlining their options vis a vis Houdini after certification.

If you were content before, go back to your comfort zone and forget about your pre-order. Jim will tell you what you need to know when you need to know it.

If you prefer to be up to date or wish you had gotten in on the pre-order, I suggest you join h4vuser get the latest updates as they become available.

 

[H Dewey]

Anyone that can give a brief update. I got 5 orders and live outside of the US. What is the options? Cancel the orders or wait? Wait until when? Any new set date for delivery?

As I understand the company delivering has changed, who is the owner / owner of that company?

Björn, join h4vuser and read through some of the threads. All your questions have already been answered.

I've got 12 orders, and I want to stay up to the minute on everything to be known. h4vuser does that for me. Oh, and there is a lot of BS just like REDuser in the early days, but there are some very knowledgeable people about the smartphone process of construction and operation.

In fact, it does remind me of the early days on REDuser when it was more like a family rather than just a business site. I like that déjà vu feeling.

 

[Tom Dowler]

calling it a cult is dumb.

It it walks like a cult, looks like a cult and reflexively posts knee-jerk posts in defense of the supreme leader no matter what he does like a cult....

These guys dont represent the rest of us!!!

Happy not to be representative. I don't even own a pair of board shorts and have never once worn a pair of oakleys on the back of my head

 

[H Dewey]

Anyone that can give a brief update. I got 5 orders and live outside of the US. What is the options? Cancel the orders or wait? Wait until when? Any new set date for delivery?

As I understand the company delivering has changed, who is the owner / owner of that company?

Björn, they are doing a system upgrade over on h4vuser and I can't sign in ATM, so I've got some time to answer your questions as best I can.

Though Jim hasn't said so, many who are in the know about these things suggest that the pre-orders can't be shipped overseas until they are certified by countries other than the U.S. Hydrogen has to pass certification first in the U.S., the country of origin, then certification is applied for in the countries it will be sold to.

For that reason, Jim is offering U.S. pre-orders the option to have their pre-order converted to one called Houdini. (I think his goal is to get more tools in the hands of those who will create content with it as soon as possible.) The Houdini model, while hardware will be complete, will need to have software updated frequently. Probably because of our commitment to a "not totally finished" state, he is offering a free 128 mSD card, an engraved number on the Houdini (it will be a once in a lifetime production model) an extra year's warranty and a signed box by anyone requesting it.

(You didn't hear this from me, but there are already many work-arounds for those in other countries to participate in the Houdini program, by getting a trusted person in the US to get it to them, or for some they will fly to the U.S. and take delivery in person from Jim. Lots of helpers to get this done on h4vuser. RED cannot ship a non-certified phone to a country where the certification is not yet complete.)

Of course, you can wait for all certifications to be complete and that's when the remaining Al and Ti pre-orders will be shipped out legally.

As for this being a new company, well, Jim Jannard. nuff said.

Still no set date for delivery. The Hydrogen was going through certification when one something or another did not pass. Jim had to go back to the supplier and re-tool the out-of-spec part. Then re-certification has to be done again with the new manufactured part in place. Once that is done, then the Houdini can be shipped to a U.S. address.

Hope that helps get you up-to-date. Let me know if you have other concerns.

Oh, forgot to mention. Jim is considering re-opening pre-orders for Houdini Aluminum models only. They will not get the free 128 GB mSD card that long time held pre-order Houdinis will get.

As for cancelling, they'll only take mine from my cold dead hands!

 

[H Dewey]

It it walks like a cult, looks like a cult and reflexively posts knee-jerk posts in defense of the supreme leader no matter what he does like a cult....




Happy not to be representative. I don't even own a pair of board shorts and have never once worn a pair of oakleys on the back of my head

You rebel devil you. '-)

BTW, what's your Cause?

 

[Malik Tigrine]

I understand nothing, there is no release date finally? (EU)...

 

[Jim Skinner]

Is the new model Houdini going to have the new snapdragon? Can we change our orders to the new model? I heard the company is restructuring will our orders from a year ago still come first or will new Houdini orders get priority?

Hi Remington! I have no relation to the company, but I have released a phone previously (for Amazon) so I can describe the difference between a PVT phone and the production version. The PVT release is a small batch release, with all of the final components, and most of the production process in place. Some elements may be soldered by hand. There are three things I find to be true about PVT models 1) they are much more expensive to make than the final run. This is because parts bought in small batches are way more expensive than parts bought in bulk. 2) The fit of the outer casing is sometimes a work in progress at this stage, so the PVT unit doesn’t quite come together the way the final unit does. Different glues may be used between PVT and final, and the machines making the casing are tweaked between PVT and final. The difference is usually minimal, but if you compare unit #1 to a production unit, you will notice a slight difference. The production unit will seem a bit more refined. This is because putting a bunch of parts together is an art, and the artists get better a couple thousand phones into the run. 3) The PVT run is used to determine if the parts all actually work as spec’d. In the phone production process your suppliers give you the best possible parts for your beta unit, because at that point you haven’t purchased anything from them. So they make sure you get the best part they can produce. When you commit to the partner, then you actually see what comes off their production line. The PVT run is the first time you actually see what your partner is going to deliver. Sometimes you get a big shock, and find a partner has not been honest about what their part can do. The partner spec may say “deep rich sound”, and the beta part may have sounded OK on a test harness, while the first batch of parts may sound like they were stripped from an AM radio. Often the unit has some change between PVT and release. It may even be the same part numbers, but in the interval the partners have fixed issues that were found in the PVT run. In my experience there are noteable part improvements over the first 6 months of any phone release. The one thing that does not change is the processor, since that part is well built and manufactured from the start.

So to answer your question, no, I do not believe you will get an upgraded processor (between PVT and release). I have never seen such a thing occur. But I do believe the final release will be improved in minor ways. And for the poster that suggested the PVT would be worth “thousands of dollars” at a later date, you are nuts. There is no museum of early production line models. If anything the early run can have one or more substandard parts that requires it to be re-worked (or shredded). That is the risk you take with a PVT model. At my office we need to do early verification testing of our own, so we’ll probably take one of our units early. But I also expect to not use that model in 6 months, as it will be clearly deficient compared to the production model at that time.

 

[Michael J Brennan]

It seems like the assumption is that everyone who pre-ordered is such a fan that they'll obsessively check reduser and h4vuser every day for updates, and Jim/the team don't need to expend any more effort than that to keep people updated.

I agree. Having opened four accounts each with an order for family members, who are not redusers nor Media professionals, they are in the dark about product developments.
A more comsumer style of communication aka email (!) would not be a hardship for the Hydrogen team?
Or does mass email create a shit storm of replies and questions that would cost a fortune to answer?

 

[H Dewey]

I agree. Having opened four accounts each with an order for family members, who are not redusers nor Media professionals, they are in the dark about product developments.
A more comsumer style of communication aka email (!) would not be a hardship for the Hydrogen team?
Or does mass email create a shit storm of replies and questions that would cost a fortune to answer?

Michael, as per Jim they are splitting Hydrogen off into a new "sister" company to RDC. Makes perfect sense, since they are totally different markets.

But that meant they had to assemble a whole new support group and system they are just now getting in place. Plus, I don't remember getting email updates before the release of any of the RED cameras... Jim communicated to us through REDuser as he is doing now through h4vuser.net, so maybe that is just policy.

He has said that he will email when pre-order decisions have to be made, with our options. I'm guessing he figures anyone wanting to know the nuts and bolts of the BTS goings on will go to h4vuser.net to keep up with the latest, just like we come to REDuser to learn bits and pieces of news.

This is just my take on things.

 

[Marc Oberdorfer]

It is obvious that there is no productive discussion or response to be expected from a lot of people here, I am really sick of some of the responses, some of you guys write some really ridiculous things. I would like to hear what some of you guys would have to say when ordering from some other companies and not being notified about delays or any updates by mail when you have already put down all your money a year ago. It's common business practice people!

I am a paying customer and expect to be notified and not chase the seller! It is called customer service!!!

 

[Marc Oberdorfer]

I understand nothing, there is no release date finally? (EU)...

Malik, let me break it down for you:

1. Hydrogen has been delayed because they didn't get certification for something in the phone (cell phone related I take it)... new date not announced
2. Because of these certification issues all pre-order customers outside the USA will not be able to get a Hydrogen at the beginning but we have to wait until Hydrogen has been certified for other countries, that's what I have gathered on this issue so far

My answer to those who suggest to fly to the States to pick it up personally is... are you mental?! Even a budget flight to the States will be easily USD 600 to 700, besides taking time off work, losing more money...
Also having it shipped to another person in the States to then ship it to another country is not an option. Shipping anything with lithium batteries is not possible anymore without getting a license to do so, which is not feasible for a individual person.

So right now it looks like having pre-ordered on day 1, putting down the full amount for a whole year has not given non US customers any advantage. We will have to wait until anyone can buy a Hydrogen. So it was meaningless to pre-order..

What I'm really pissed off about is that Red knew about cell phone certification from the beginning, they could have told us that non US customers will have to wait until they work out certification with other countries from the beginning. With that knowledge I would not have pre-ordered....

in the meantime I have mailed Red customer service since I still have not received any email from them about this, despite Jim stating that they would do so. This will be a simple generic formulated email with the options to ALL pre-order customers, no reason for it to take so long.

This is not how to do business.

 

[Malik Tigrine]

Thanks for your answer Marc, it's difficult to find informations here, there is a lot of fanboys responses that lead nowhere.

 

[H Dewey]

Malik, let me break it down for you:

1. Hydrogen has been delayed because they didn't get certification for something in the phone (cell phone related I take it)... new date not announced
2. Because of these certification issues all pre-order customers outside the USA will not be able to get a Hydrogen at the beginning but we have to wait until Hydrogen has been certified for other countries, that's what I have gathered on this issue so far

My answer to those who suggest to fly to the States to pick it up personally is... are you mental?! Even a budget flight to the States will be easily USD 600 to 700, besides taking time off work, losing more money...
Also having it shipped to another person in the States to then ship it to another country is not an option. Shipping anything with lithium batteries is not possible anymore without getting a license to do so, which is not feasible for a individual person.

So right now it looks like having pre-ordered on day 1, putting down the full amount for a whole year has not given non US customers any advantage. We will have to wait until anyone can buy a Hydrogen. So it was meaningless to pre-order..

What I'm really pissed off about is that Red knew about cell phone certification from the beginning, they could have told us that non US customers will have to wait until they work out certification with other countries from the beginning. With that knowledge I would not have pre-ordered....

in the meantime I have mailed Red customer service since I still have not received any email from them about this, despite Jim stating that they would do so. This will be a simple generic formulated email with the options to ALL pre-order customers, no reason for it to take so long.

This is not how to do business.

Marc, you either need to take a chill pill or a dump... because your post is mostly shit. In re: your "are you mental" remark for people who will willingly fly to the states to pick up the Houdini Hydrogen, if this doesn't fit your budget doesn't mean it isn't within that of many others who recognize the Hydrogen is the beginning of a new industry... a new way of communicating, doing business, creating content, all in one device. And shipping li batteries without a license? Heh, well, I don't have to dwell on that since everyone here knows that is BS.

And no, pre-orders outside the U.S. do not have to wait until everyone can buy a Hydrogen. Jim has said original pre-orders will ship about a month before carriers begin selling them.

"What I'm really pissed off about is that Red knew about cell phone certification from the beginning, they could have told us that non US customers will have to wait until they work out certification with other countries from the beginning. With that knowledge I would not have pre-ordered...."

RED is not your Nanny, Boo Boo. If you didn't check out International Law before buying, that's on you. Take responsibility for your own failings rather than trying to shift blame to Jim.

"in the meantime I have mailed Red customer service since I still have not received any email from them about this, despite Jim stating that they would do so. This will be a simple generic formulated email with the options to ALL pre-order customers, no reason for it to take so long."

There is every reason for it to take so long... They first have to get the out-of-spec part retooled, tested, then get that part certified. When you are dealing with govt certification you are on their time table, not Marc Oberdorfer's. When Jim has everything nailed down, I suspect that's when we get the options email. Too much can go wrong in the meantime to put out something that may have to be changed.

Oh, and very likely you are right. It will probably be a simple generic formulated email, but I betcha they will have your name in the greetings part, so that should satisfy your deep need for personal contact... from the Billionaire himself more than likely.

This is not how to do business.

Well, it is how RED Digital Cinema began doing business and look where they are now!

Adding a personal thought about the Houdini early option... it is my belief that Jim is anxious about getting Hydrogen Media Machines in the hands of content creators as quickly as possible. The Houdini is a one-off release with extra perks to get as many pre-orderers as possible to accept the finalized hardware/beta-type software models so they can begin creating content. Dave Graham, someone who works in the cell phone industry, says in his estimation the Houdini will likely be nailed down in respect to acquiring content...

I get all this stuff off of h4vuser.net. It's available to anyone over there.