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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How many of you are taking the final chance to go Epic to Dragon?

Tehben Dean said:
I'm guessing you are right.

I debated doing the Dragon upgrade last year, but from what I've seen it wasn't worth $10k for me. I'm very very happy with MX and will hold on to it until sometime down the road when I know what I'm buying and have the extra resources to pay for it. I doubt it will be more then $5k loss to avoid the upgrade path and in 2 years that's nothing.

In the meantime I'm shooting on the same camera that shot Prometheus, the Hobbit etc. If I can't make amazing pictures with it, then I'm doing something wrong!
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We continue to get shots we love with our Epic MX. It is by far my favorite camera available today at any price.

That's Red problem at this point, I think. Epic MX is SO GOOD there is no feeling of driving need to replace it.
 
Don't forget that there will be an option to buy a brand new Weapon. For some of us (in the Scarlet pool) that might actually end up being financially more viable then the upgrade path - even if it is more expensive. Not only the upgrade path involves parting with the camera for some time and the shipping costs associated - twice in this case (once to go to Dragon and then again to Weapon), but it also offers lesser warranty coverage, immediate cashflow pressure and the end of the line waiting spot (for Scarlets). We all know here what was the main benefit for those who opted for the CF Dragon (or Epic-M back in the day). That extra cost paid itself off for everyone I know personally that went for it - long before others got their chance to go Dragon (or got their upgrade Epic-X's)...

This is something I need to consider seriously. As everyone else with Scarlet MX should as well...

:sifone: Peter
 
I upgraded last fall to Dragon (LLO). I really can't recommend it enough. The difference between the Dragon and MX is almost night and day, in terms of Color, Dynamic range, detail, and even slightly in low light. The only downside I have found is the longer boot up time. Its the Weapon upgrade that I am not in such a rush to do, mainly due to the need to repurchase many accessories. Hoping obviously Red keeps the upgrade to weapon open for at least 2 more years, which would be my ideal upgrade cycle. But from MX to Dragon, seriously, go for it.
 
Sergio, I shoot with the Dragon frequently and understand its benefits over the MX. 75% of the paid jobs I do - we simply rent the camera (sometimes the MX Epic, sometimes the CF Dragon - mostly for gimbal and aerial work, sometimes Alexa / Amira and sometimes even the C300/C500). My own camera is for me personally to constantly work on my cinematography skills and to use on my own projects and for clients with limited budgets (about 25% of my paid jobs) or my friends - and these clients / friends could not care less whether my camera is MX or Dragon, Epic or Scarlet. They finish in 1080P and love what I deliver with the MX Scarlet. Period.
 
Peter Majtan said:
Sergio, I shoot with the Dragon frequently and understand its benefits over the MX. 75% of the paid jobs I do - we simply rent the camera (sometimes the MX Epic, sometimes the CF Dragon - mostly for gimbal and aerial work, sometimes Alexa / Amira and sometimes even the C300/C500). My own camera is for me personally to constantly work on my cinematography skills and to use on my own projects and for clients with limited budgets (about 25% of my paid jobs) or my friends - and these clients / friends could not care less whether my camera is MX or Dragon, Epic or Scarlet. They finish in 1080P and love what I deliver with the MX Scarlet. Period.
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I hear you Peter, in this side of the globe, if doing work for Broadcast, MX is more than enough too. But as someone honing cinematography skills (I see myself in a similar boat- every day is learning, specially on a place where its hard to find top cinematographers and productions to learn and cooperate with), and since you tried and worked Dragon, you know the Sensor truly opens up the possibility of working on both Cinematography and Stills at a true "convergence" level, for example. The Megapixel count is close to a 5D Mark II. It opens doors for a different approach to certain jobs, too, or personal artistic work and expression. I say the Dragon sensor is really the DSMC concept realised. Yes, Weapon can wait. Just a perspective, totally understand your point.
 
We are not in a disagreement here Sergio... ;o)
But in many ways the Dragon is too easy. Being limited to shooting motion in 4K on the MX Scarlet and with the more restricted DR - there really is no room to re-frame in post, you tend to be a lot more careful with your framing. Ditto for exposure. Over the last year I have really switched towards trying to finish in 4K - even if the master delivery is 2K/HD.
I know the upgrading to Dragon Scarlet does make perfect sense for me - but even then I will probably just buy a new body, rather then upgrade my existing MX. It really comes down to cashflow for me. If things this month turn up half the way they are looking like - I will bite the bullet and just get the SD. But I am honestly more interested in the CF Weapon - as it also suppose to actually deliver more then the non-CF version. I am really expanding our aerial division and the CF Weapon looks like it will be a must-have for that. With the upgrade path where Scarlets are at the end of the line for the upgrades - my best option might be just to buy a new CF Weapon instead. In which case upgrading my SMX right now might not be the best call. This is the dilemma I am faced with personally. I hope Shane spill some more beans on the Weapon this week as suggested in his teasers....

:sifone: Peter
 
I have thought about getting the Epic to Dragon upgrade, in order to be inline for the weapon option, but at the moment I'd need a lot more information about weapon. Let's hope this appears before the deadline dissappears......... in the meantime the Arri mini looks nice.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
No hurry to go to Weapon from Dragon. Upgrades won't even start until mid-year. The only deadline looming is the ability to upgrade MX to Dragon. RED is offering extra incentive to people who already have or do buy the Dragon upgrade before NAB. And they have also dropped the price back down to the $9500 for even more incentive. In the coming months, they will phase out the MX to Dragon upgrades as they convert production lines over to Weapon. Once that happens, any non-converted MX cameras will no longer be able to get the Dragon upgrade. And for a camera to remain eligible for the RED upgrade path, the camera needs to receive these major upgrades.

We do not know as of yet what the upgrade involves and if there will be multiple options as there was when upgrading in the past from the RED One to EPIC. However, Jarred has said that there is no hurry to upgrade to Weapon from Dragon and they will continue to sell and support Dragon cameras for some time to come.

I think the only real unfortunate aspect to all of this is that even the early Dragon upgrades have only had Dragon for a year, most for quite a bit less, and it looks like the ability to upgrade MX to Dragon may end within the next 6 to 8 months or so. However, that is a big part of the RED program or philosophy. When you get onboard the RED train, it doesn't stop. They have always taken care of their customers and their upgrade plan has so far been great for a lot of us. It's not always good for everyone though and sometimes budget and schedules just don't align with the program.
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As an "early adopter" upgrade guy, I have to agree with you. But my cynical side thinks no one will get a Weapon until 2016, so hopefully that will get me a solid year or so on Dragon.. I understand the Dragon OLPF issues cut a significant amount of time on the lifespan of the model but I wasn't expecting another upgrade cycle for at least a year or two, they really caught me off guard with this. Of course I am getting Weapon the second I can regardless, simply to have the newest best of the best stuff... But I really hope its lifespan beats Dragon by at least two or three fold being that my upgrade is like only 8-9 months old at this point lol?
 
Brian Merlen said:
But I really hope its lifespan beats Dragon by at least two or three fold being that my upgrade is like only 8-9 months old at this point lol?
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That's what I think is really crazy about the latest upgrade, most Epic owners have only had Dragon for less then a year and now that camera is almost outdated. Been hearing this complaint a lot from owners I talk to too. I do love how progressive RED is and how they want the absolute latest and greatest for their owners, but the lifespan of the last upgrade seemed way too short before it was outdated. Just hope things don't change too quick this time. Anyways, I'll be upgrading before NAB.
 
Jason L said:
That's what I think is really crazy about the latest upgrade, most Epic owners have only had Dragon for less then a year and now that camera is almost outdated. Been hearing this complaint a lot from owners I talk to too. I do love how progressive RED is and how they want the absolute latest and greatest for their owners, but the lifespan of the last upgrade seemed way too short before it was outdated. Just hope things don't change too quick this time. Anyways, I'll be upgrading before NAB.
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Dragon isn't going anywhere and Red will be selling Weapons along side Dragon. This is just the beginning of the upgrade path to Weapon and you'll have some time to upgrade your Dragons to Weapon.
 
Hi, haven't been on Red for a while so a little surprised by latest developments.

Will Red continue to support servicing the Epic X in the future?

cheers

Rob
 
Ian McGrew said:
what is the latest we can upgrade? Just curious if there is a "that's it... no more" date set in stone?
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The last general date Jarred mentioned is around June 2015. If I was you I'd hold that date in stone and plan accordingly, however, it's always good to remember everything can change in the world of RED. But since the president dropped that info, that's a good estimate.
 
Definitely won't be upgrading my Epic MX, which I love, just shot something tonight and it looks fantastic. Plus my clients don't look at it under an electron microscope. Had originally planned to skip Dragon and go to the next iteration but now obviously won't.

To be perfectly frank something doesn't *feel solid* about what's going on. I've been RED since the beginning with an early RED One and this whole we can't tell you, jump on board, oops sorry we didn't mean to leak that (when they are super switched on and know exactly what they're doing), Jim jumping in to do a special appearance boost spruce, the passionate words and the actions overall in totality for the first time don't sync here to me and this is only my 2 cents which I'm entitled to, something feels not confident for the first time. I'm sticking with my MX which is the bees knees and I thank them for that.

Sure they will say you'll be left behind, your mistake, you'll see, what I am saying is the whole you must advance us funds now for something we deliberately won't tell you about... or give you the precise dollar facts about, and you MUST do it before NAB, (all decisions they control absolutely), no thanks, not for me. I don't buy it. But thanks anyhow and good luck going forward because I am a fan and I wish the team there every success. They're a good bunch of people.
 
I agree with Mark. Doesn't feel solid.

The direct official communication didn't mention anything about not being able to upgrade after NAB, only the price difference. I don't plan on upgrading yet. I'll see what RED has to offer (as well as everyone else) and make a decision from there. If RED does not offer a easy path but someone else does then I'll move to that vendor.
 
I think you guys have missed something... Probably because of the way that RED dribbles out info instead of putting out well worded press releases.

Mark Warren said:
Definitely won't be upgrading my Epic MX, which I love, just shot something tonight and it looks fantastic. Plus my clients don't look at it under an electron microscope. Had originally planned to skip Dragon and go to the next iteration but now obviously won't.

To be perfectly frank something doesn't *feel solid* about what's going on. I've been RED since the beginning with an early RED One and this whole we can't tell you, jump on board, oops sorry we didn't mean to leak that (when they are super switched on and know exactly what they're doing), Jim jumping in to do a special appearance boost spruce, the passionate words and the actions overall in totality for the first time don't sync here to me and this is only my 2 cents which I'm entitled to, something feels not confident for the first time. I'm sticking with my MX which is the bees knees and I thank them for that.

Sure they will say you'll be left behind, your mistake, you'll see, what I am saying is the whole you must advance us funds now for something we deliberately won't tell you about... or give you the precise dollar facts about, and you MUST do it before NAB, (all decisions they control absolutely), no thanks, not for me. I don't buy it. But thanks anyhow and good luck going forward because I am a fan and I wish the team there every success. They're a good bunch of people.
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Adam J. Craig said:
I agree with Mark. Doesn't feel solid.

The direct official communication didn't mention anything about not being able to upgrade after NAB, only the price difference. I don't plan on upgrading yet. I'll see what RED has to offer (as well as everyone else) and make a decision from there. If RED does not offer a easy path but someone else does then I'll move to that vendor.
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RED isn't saying that you have to pay for Weapon before they reveal it. RED isn't saying that you can't buy a Weapon outright after N.A.B.
Red isn't saying that you can't upgrade MX -> Dragon after N.A.B. either.


What they have said is:
-That there are no MX to Weapon upgrades
-MX -> Dragon upgrades that are placed before N.A.B. get the lower upgrade price of $9,500.
-MX -> Dragon upgrades placed after N.A.B. will rise to $12,500.
-Those who have upgraded to Dragon (or who bought a Dragon outright) before N.A.B. will get a special bonus that can be used for 'Accesories'
-Those who upgrade to Dragon before the MX -> Dragon upgrade program ends mid-summer will be able to upgrade to Weapon.
-After weapon is revealed you will be able to buy one no matter what camera you own (R!, panasonic, canon, sony, etc)

Weapon hasn't been revealed yet.
Weapon pricing hasn't been revealed yet
And they aren't asking you to pay for Weapon (upgrade or outright ) before the reveal.

If you want or need Dragon then upgrade at the lower price - regardless of what Weapon is.

I don't understand why people feel they have a gun to their head.
 
I have to agree with Mark and Adam. I haven't upgraded out Epic to Dragon yet, although I have been considering it, but the whole Weapon circus, whatever it may be, just feels like some strange game. I'm certainly interested to see what the next generation of Red camera might be, but couldn't possibly spend any money on it without a lot more information. The whisper and reveal game seems a bit childish - let us know what the product is and then we can have a real conversation about it, until then is really doesn't feel 'solid' at all.
 
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