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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How many of you are taking the final chance to go Epic to Dragon?

Christoffer Glans said:
Then that will work for you... but to run the numbers. I bought a used Scarlet brain for $4700 I upgraded that to Epic MX $9500 and then bought equipment for $12500.
If I upgrade to Dragon for $9500 I have in the end bought a Dragon with all necessary side equipment for $36200...
A new Epic Dragon brain is $29000. That's a $5300 difference by doing a upgrade path compared to a whole new Dragon.
That's money I could put into the Weapon instead if I want or have the Dragon while it's still hot and then upgrade.
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Epic-M Dragon is $29k Epic-X Dragon is $24k.

In theory that means if you could sell your Epic MX for $14,500 and then buy a new Dragon you would come out even with the upgrade. OR buy a used Dragon, or go straight to Weapon.

If you want Dragon now it def makes sense to do the upgrade before NAB, but if the only reason you are going Dragon is to upgrade to Weapon later then I doubt it will be a huge savings. Of course we don't know anything at this point really so it's all speculation.
 
Terry VerHaar said:
But unless you fly into town on a magical RED Dragon, it may be invisible to you! :-)
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Magical RED Dragon? Invisible? We're talking about a camera here right?
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Secret storytelling device that makes all of your shots Oscar-worthy.
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Oscar worthy has almost nothing to do with the type of camera used. I wish it did, but sadly...
 
hell, given recent history I'm not even sure if this is sarcasm lol!
 
Brian Merlen said:
hell, given recent history I'm not even sure if this is sarcasm lol!
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Exactly. I joked with a colleague about that and he said he was going to buy two Alexa Minis since he didn't want to be the guy who won just a single Oscar. lol
 
I am almost sure I'll do the upgrade now. just went last year from scarlet to Epic, think I'll do the Upgrade to Dragon now. To get some extra price benefit. And wait a little logner with going weapon because I think, we'll need some more stuff besides the upgrade alone (minimags / new sidehandle, probably new V-MOUNT module, and probably some more.. So this will be another investment.... )
 
Joachim Hoge said:
Yes Patrick, sorry to make you aware of that offer half a year too late. They got quite a few back from some military thing and they were gone in less than 24 hours I think. They all had only 5 hours of use, ours looked like new.
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I got one of the battle tested Dragons. Had 4 hours of use on mine. What a steal!!!
 
So you really wont be able to go from MX to Weapon? I sure hope they do some type of trade in program if that is true.
 
Austin White said:
So you really wont be able to go from MX to Weapon? I sure hope they do some type of trade in program if that is true.
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Well, to be clear - and this is somewhat my interpretation - the Weapon body/system will enclose a Dragon sensor, not an MX. So, if you already own a Dragon, your camera innards will be transplanted when you upgrade. If you don't own a Dragon, you will have to get one in order to upgrade, or buy a "fresh" Weapon.

You will still be able to upgrade your Epic to Dragon after NAB (until roughly this summer) but you will lose some "early adopter" bonuses (which are, as yet, unstated).

No matter what, your Epic will still be a viable camera for some time to come (supported by RED) and you can always sell it outright and transition to Weapon when/if you are ready.

No actual MX ---> Weapon "trade-ins" have yet been announced, to my knowledge.
 
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Terry VerHaar said:
Well, to be clear - and this is somewhat my interpretation - the Weapon body/system will enclose a Dragon sensor, not an MX. So, if you already own a Dragon, your camera innards will be transplanted when you upgrade. If you don't own a Dragon, you will have to get one in order to upgrade, or buy a "fresh" Weapon.

You will still be able to upgrade your Epic to Dragon after NAB (until roughly this summer) but you will lose some "early adopter" bonuses (which as, as yet, unstated).

No matter what, your Epic will still be a viable camera for some time to come (supported by RED) and you can always sell it outright and transition to Weapon when/if you are ready.

No actual MX ---> Weapon "trade-ins" have yet been announced, to my knowledge.
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Thank you. I sure hope they have something for MX to Weapon or they give me some type of trade-in value when the time comes. One of the main reasons behind going Red was cause I heard they take care of there own kind with deals like this. Not leaving their users in the dust.
 
I was planning to get an EPIC - MX for quite some time, however as soon as I read about WEAPON I gave it a little more thought and bought a Dragon straight away, simply because of the promised benefits for anyone who gets a Dragon before NAB. But it is my very first RED and I won't be making the transition to WEAPON any time soon. I just hope that I'll still be able to upgrade without losing the promised discount whenever I chose to do so...Ideally I'd want to spend at least a year (hopefully more) with my Dragon before moving on.
 
Austin White said:
So you really wont be able to go from MX to Weapon? I sure hope they do some type of trade in program if that is true.
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Austin White said:
Thank you. I sure hope they have something for MX to Weapon or they give me some type of trade-in value when the time comes. One of the main reasons behind going Red was cause I heard they take care of there own kind with deals like this. Not leaving their users in the dust.
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Red's been very, very clear about current options and much of this can be read here:
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?128381-RED-WEAPON-Info-and-Data-Sheets

There is no "direct path" from Mysterium-X to Weapon. The upgrade from Mysterium-X is to Dragon and then the upgrade from Dragon is to Weapon.

There might be an option around NAB time where there is a "double upgrade trip" offered, similar to those who went Scarlet MX to Epic MX to Epic Dragon perhaps.

However, this is the big thing to me at least, at the moment the upgrade cost from Mysterium-X to Dragon is at the early adopter price and that ends during NAB 2015.

Additionally, the Mysterium-X to Dragon upgrade path ends approximately around June 2015. After that you will not be able to upgrade to Dragon from Mysterium-X.

Red does a pretty good job of "taking care of their own", but Dragon upgrades have been offered for about 2 years now and just like the Red One upgrade options from long ago at some point they must have a "stoppage" in the line. Red typically is on a 2 to 3 year product cycle in terms of camera technology.

It's been stated that Red is on a body>sensor>body>sensor>body upgrade path. Though it could be argued that Dragon wasn't just a sensor upgrade based on a few things.

Mysterium-X in the Red One is a bit over 5 years old now. The MX sensor has tremendous lasting power through Epic (2010) and Scarlet (2011) DSMC bodies. Dragon (2013) advanced a few things that Mysterium-X was lacking, specifically the better color, DR, IR Cut, 6K larger format, 5K in S35 format, highlight roll-off, etc.... A few other interesting concepts like the Interchangeable OLPFs also came along with the upgrade as well.

Weapon (2015) is the next step in the evolution of these cameras.

Red has mapped out how to get there and even has earlier than expected released details regarding upgrade programs and new bodies.

The one fun thing in all of this upgrading and new technology is that every Red camera introduced to date is still relevant in shooting 4K+ and finishing to 4K. That's actually pretty cool. They were and are right about this whole 4K thing :)
 
Phil Holland said:
Red does a pretty good job of "taking care of their own", but Dragon upgrades have been offered for about 2 years now and just like the Red One upgrade options from long ago at some point they must have a "stoppage" in the line. Red typically is on a 2 to 3 year product cycle in terms of camera technology.
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I don't know about two years. My Dragon upgrade confirmation was sent to me on May 5, 2014, so I have not even had one year to ROI the upgrade. More like 9 months (since it took about six weeks to turn around from confirmation to sending/receiving)....

I'm not complaining here. I think RED should move ahead. What I love most about this company is that they put their best foot forward. All the time.

However, I didn't upgrade my second camera - which I plan to keep MX - but, had I chosen to upgrade this camera, I would have had even less time to ROI the upgrade. My EPIC upgrade was for EPIC-M #748, and I signed up for the upgrade program during NAB - right out of the gate -but did not receive an upgrade notice until May 5, 2014. My SCARLET notification for an upgrade would have been well after that.

So I don't think it is accurate to say or imply that owners have had two years with Dragon sensors. Which is why I think it presents a hardship for many users to stay on the upgrade path towards Weapon.

The Dragon upgrade has taken long enough and been protracted enough that I would like to see RED extend the deadline to upgrade to Dragon at existing prices, to two weeks past NAB. So people can actually see what Weapon is, instead of requiring the blind faith upgrade - it's a bit much to pay for a Dragon upgrade, simply to get Weapon, without knowing what Weapon is.

....only saying this because I do believe RED listens....not a criticism here but a suggestion.

If they are going to keep Dragon upgrade lines open until June-ish anyway, it doesn't seem like much to ask. And they may get a whole lot more upgrades from a briefly extended deadline - keeping users on the upgrade path seems like it would benefit RED as much as it would benefit the users.
 
We got our order in last week and paid!

Got a shoot this weekend (the final shoot for the Epic) then the day after the shoot we are handing it over to RED to get sent off !

Very excited to get the Dragon - A great variety of opinions in this thread. For those who recently took the jump how long did yours take? We are preparing for the full 4 weeks but I have seen some people getting theirs back very quick!
 
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