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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How did Claudio Miranda's test go?

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I think the moral here is:

Just because you live in Vienna doesn't mean you have to be a Wiener.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
It was the attitude of some of the posters here that frustrated him -- the "politics" he was referring to is the attitude of "you can't say anything negative because RED is not just a camera, it's a way of life and you're attacking our way of life so I'm going to undercut your status so people won't listen to you".

That's too much nonsense to deal with when all you want to do is test some cameras and decide which one to use.

Claudio did thank me privately for standing up for him but the truth is that a talented and successful cinematographer like him shouldn't have to fight to get some respect on this forum. In the long term, this site needs more people like him.
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He DOESN'T have to defend himself here. His work speaks for itself.

This whole episode is just embarassing.
 
I think that if the moderators on this board have been quick (in the past) to ban anti-red trolls, then they should also do it for pro-red trolls. Fair is fair. People like Claudio and David are the reason I am here... so I can learn from people who's work I can actually see in the movies. Now one is gone. I hope it doesn't happen again.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Claudio did thank me privately for standing up for him but the truth is that a talented and successful cinematographer like him shouldn't have to fight to get some respect on this forum. In the long term, this site needs more people like him.
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Hey, I stood up for Claudio too. Where's my e-mail ?:biggrin: About a year ago when we were discussing who to test the camera i made a list that included Mr.Mullen and Claudio. Two cinematographers who were both familiar and experts with both film and digital and who had a good amount of artistry to go along with their tech knowledge. Dion Beebe was another.

This forum needs professionals who are making movies (on this forum) to balance the theoretical with the practical application of knowledge. It's unfortunate that Claudio doesn't particpate, even though he's a busy dude. What I wanted wasn't a definitive winner to validate my purchase, but to use the tests as a spring board to evaluate the camera and find ways to improve it, both back in Orange County and ON SET, with lights, filters, pan speeds, maybe new hardware etc... All of that is about STORY. For me, that's all I care about - how to acheive the desired asthetics within the budgetary and narrative bailiwick. I really couldn't care about anything other than focus on story (for me). Part of that is the visual poetry of the image so knowing the tech stuff is important until I can afford (and hopefully he's interested) in someone like Claudio.

Imho, leave the marketing to the experts and let's embrace different points of view (as long as they are respectful) because every real world test lets me know what's achievable with what budget, and even more with what talent and passion.

Btw, if Claudio is reading this, i'd ask him to put up the test again, unless he's planning on another test. It's emblematic of good real world testing.

Obrigado.
 
Claudio, if you're still reading this thread, I hope it's becoming obvious that there's overwhelming support and appreciation here for your input.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
But what good would that do? You don't expose a night exterior scene for the bright red tail lights in the shot (unless they are big in frame), you expose to get max information all around. Underexposing another stop or so would have ruined the night shots; I'd rather live with the red lights clipping in that case.
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Well, when you see that the tail lights clip you could try to gel them. Of course this doesn't work with background cars which don't belong to production.

But at least you'd know immediately about the clipping. :biggrin:

BTW, congrats for your promotion to moderator, David! :sorcerer:
 
David Mullen ASC said:
People who are used to zooms have a hard time getting used to primes, and vice-versa to some extent. There are legitimate reasons for using zooms, of course.

I do find, though, that you really learn the subtle effects of focal lengths by choosing primes throughout a feature shoot, so that you can guess whether you want to use a 50mm instead of a 75mm, for example. It leads to a sort of precision in framing and composition (that mathematical precision you sense when watching an Ozu movie, all shot on a 50mm, or something Gordon Willis shot like "The Godfather") whereas a zoom leads to a sort of looseness and vagueness about the choice of focal length. It's just a different style of working and creates a different look to the movie ultimately. Sure, it wouldn't make much sense to use only primes if you are after a "Bourne Supremacy" sort of feeling, let alone it wouldn't make much sense practically.

But don't knock shooting on primes until you've tried it. It's great to really get to know a single lens and all of its personality and how it affects the scene.
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David,

That is precisely my "fear".

There is no doubt that working with primes will force us to position "the camera". It is more time consuming, but it seems there are rewards.i mean, it's so easy to zoom to adjust fl to the framing we want....

Could you tell me some other movies that used primes vs zooms ?

thanks
 
Glad to see the results posted. It was definitely a fair comparison and it's great to see a direct comparison between the cameras. There are definitely a few more stones I'd love to overturn in the F23/RED comparison, but this gave me a great at-a-glance comparison. Claudio is spot-on with the pros and cons of each system as they stand today. I'd love to see an F23 DPX and a comparable R3D file to compare, but that's just my personal curiosity - not a request.

I'm looking forward to both personally testing and reading tests of the current RED bodies versus the newer "X" RED bodies.

David, thanks for remaining the reality check many on this forum need. Welcome to the ranks of the yellow-named nerds. :)
 
TheThe said:
I think that if the moderators on this board have been quick (in the past) to ban anti-red trolls, then they should also do it for pro-red trolls. Fair is fair.
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Well said, the useless fanboy hype doesn't help anything, it's guys like David and Macgregor and Claudio telling us the straight story that helps.

A troll's a troll, doesn't matter which side of the bridge he lives under, and trolls drive away the good folk.
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Could you tell me some other movies that used primes vs zooms ?
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Well, as I said, Ozu's movies are a good example of what a 50mm prime looks like in Academy 1.37.

Wes Anderson's films like "Rushmore" and "The Royal Tennenbaums" are interesting because they are mostly shot on a 40mm anamorphic lens, but when he puts up a zoom lens, it is for an obvious zooming shot. In "Bottle Rocket", which wasn't anamorphic, I think he used a 27mm lens for most of the movie.

Orson Welles made extensive use of the new (then) 18mm lens when he did "Touch of Evil". A lot of "I am Cuba" also used the 18mm. Frankenheimer used it a lot in the 1960's, on movies like "Seconds" and "Seven Days in May".

Most of the first CinemaScope movie, "The Robe", was shot on a 50mm anamorphic lens, since that's all they had to work with.

This discussion should be moved to some other thread though.
 
thanks David,

I'll watch these movies with attention.

Sorry...Back to the subject.

Antoine
 
I've had the honor of working with Bob Yeoman a few times, he's a great guy. i was pretty amazed to here about the single lens films he's done.
 
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