Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Hot Mirrors - Which Place Nicest with Epic X

Joe Taylor

Joe Taylor

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
1,146
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Website
www.joetaylorcinema.com
I've read so many conflicting articles and topics about the nightmares of certain hot mirror ND filters and how they work with Epic, that I would like to get it straight from those in know about which ND hot mirrors truly work the best with Epic X and which to absolutely avoid. From my research it seems that Format might be one of the better options.

Please chime away.
 
Heh. It must be that time of the year again. So many threads on this topic with the same answers :)

The bestest for Mysterium-X in a very particular order:

- Tiffen Hot Mirror IRND
- Formatt Hot Mirror ND
- Schnieder IRND
- Formatt ProStop
- Tiffen IRND

The only thing that I literally haven't tested is the Pancro filters, and it's because I just don't have access to them. I'm betting they perform fairly well from what I have seen.

If you want a great picture right out of camera I'd go for the Tiffen Hot Mirror IRND or Formatf Hot Mirror IRND.

If you know how to handle the greenish tint that certain IRNDs provide in post, which is a fairly trivial thing to correct, any of the above IRNDs will be fine.

You begin to see the effects of IR contamination around 0.9 ND, so if you have a set of 0.3-0.9 you'll probably want to hold on to those and save some dough. Deep filtration is where you really see weirdness. 0.9 (3 stops) and deeper filtration, such as 1.8. That's where having that Hot Mirror really comes in handy.

The thing you really want to avoid is just a normal ND on any "warm" light. You'll get a very pinkish/warm image and lose your subtle greens and blues. This isn't just a Red camera thing.


It has been mentioned that this may not be much of a concern with the upcoming Dragon in combination with the newer IROLPF (so if you have a full normal set of NDs already you may want to hold onto those for a bit). Tests will need to be done for sure. I know a guy who likes to test crazy things like that too :)
 
Thank you so much Phil. I have a new Formatt ND 9 that for some reason casts a very strong magenta hue no matter what camera. Other straight ND's, including ND 9's and 1.2's, (Both Tiffen) do not have this problem. Makes a bit leery of Formatt.
 
Something sound funky. Is it a "Hot Mirror ND Combo Filter"?

Such as what's seen here: Format's Hot Mirror ND Site

Or is it just a normal ND .9.

It should say on the pouch and perhaps the filter itself depending on what series it is.

Also, what happens when you white balance it to a grey card?
 
I've used a lot of different filters, including the Pancros.

In terms of color cast and neutrality, the Pancros were the best I've ever used. Even at ND1.2, the image was very neutral. The problem with the Pancros is that they're so reflective (and thick) there was a tendency for ghosting, especially in heavy backlight situations.

I tend to get Tiffen Hot Mirror IRNDs (which have a brown cast), but the Schneider Platinums (green cast) are pretty good too.
 
It's a straight ND 9. White balance really doesn't effect the magenta hue at all on any camera. The only way to control it is in post via subtracting magenta by adding green. This works fine for my personal work but as a raw file it had undeniable and heavy magenta tint. It's freaked too many people out on set so I've stopped using it. I have a bunch of Tiffen ND's and a couple of B+W's and all of them work well with Epic or any camera for that matter. This Formatt is the only ND filter that I've used that has done this. I bought this filter as a standalone and not as a set.

The only reason I have this Formatt ND9 is for a Canon 500mm that none of my matte boxes will work with. There's no rear drop slot but it has this same effect with all lenses. I've had good luck with other Formatt filters but I'm cautious about investing in a full set of 4x5 hot mirrors because of this one dud-- if that's what it is.

Be cool if somebody from Formatt could chime in.
 
Joe Taylor said:
It's a straight ND 9.
Click to expand...

So that's the sticky widget. Pick up any one of the first 3 mentioned above and you'll be a happier fellow.

I pretty much use some sort of IR protection from 0.9 and up.

I'm currently using Tiffen, Schneider, and Formatts (I use Formatts now for my 77mm screw in). The Tiffen and Schneider are 4x5.65".
 
It's a shame I didn't test it soon enough to send back to B&H. Now I'm stuck with a $200 coaster (not my only one, but the Formatt is the shiniest.) Would not dare pass this off to anybody else. That's why I would at least like to hear what Formatt has to say.
 
I don't know exactly what they'll tell you as you simply purchased the wrong product for your needs. Contact them though. They are a decent company and may work something out.

Also, you can probably sell your filter and purchase the new one(s) that you desire.
 
Joe, if that issue is only with this particular filter and not with the 1.2 of another brand it is probably not the IR pollution but suggests that the piece is out of specs and should be covered by warranty, give it a try. No company is interested in unhappy customers so it is very likely they will do something for you.

Cheers

Ulf
 
We use format here, they are not far from us geographically. We don't have any colour shift on any of the filter sets so far as we have seen. We prefer ND plus seperate hot mirror. the IRNDs are fine as well though.
 
The bummer with formatt screw in they dont have a front thread.
I dont understand how they can do a screw in filter without front thread!!!

Pat
 
Please check these filters out. They are called TrueND, it is combined IR and ND.
No hot-mirror filter needed with these, they come in 0.3 / 0.6 / 0.9 / 1.2 / 1.5 for now.
They leave a very clean picture, post-production is always happy to find the use of them.

I am reselling these filters from Europe, shipping worldwide.
Please check my website for more information and links to demonstration films.
www.cameramarket.eu/TrueNDfilterpage.htm

Best,
Herman Verschuur
 
Herman Verschuur said:
Please check these filters out. They are called TrueND, it is combined IR and ND.
No hot-mirror filter needed with these, they come in 0.3 / 0.6 / 0.9 / 1.2 / 1.5 for now.
They leave a very clean picture, post-production is always happy to find the use of them.

I am reselling these filters from Europe, shipping worldwide.
Please check my website for more information and links to demonstration films.
www.cameramarket.eu/TrueNDfilterpage.htm

Best,
Herman Verschuur
Click to expand...

Wow Herman. That look really good. Is it stackable ? Looks like completely new brand, never heard of this before. Thanks for sharing

Price is a bummer tho.

Edit : It seems that it is made in Japan.

Rivai
 
It is important to bear in mind that Pancro filters may lead to highly significant ghosting of some images when using certain lenses. There are a number of threads about this issue here on REDUser. In particular, individuals using stills lenses would be very wise to avoid Pancros, as that seems to be where the problem is isolated. Exactly why this is the case, I'm not sure anyone knows, but the issue is absolutely real and ruinous. What's worse, you may not see these ghosts until you're in post.

We owned two sets of Pancros, but sold both in favor of the Formatts. In extensive tests, we have been unable to get ANY ghosts using Formatt IR+ND filters using stills lenses.

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
It is important to bear in mind that Pancro filters may lead to highly significant ghosting of some images when using certain lenses. There are a number of threads about this issue here on REDUser. In particular, individuals using stills lenses would be very wise to avoid Pancros, as that seems to be where the problem is isolated. Exactly why this is the case, I'm not sure anyone knows, but the issue is absolutely real and ruinous. What's worse, you may not see these ghosts until you're in post.

We owned two sets of Pancros, but sold both in favor of the Formatts. In extensive tests, we have been unable to get ANY ghosts using Formatt IR+ND filters using stills lenses.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Sadly true, altho it's the only NDIR delivers the absolute neutral image as compare to anything else. We still have one set, almost sell it but decide not to for now. The only way to solve this is to have a matte box that have tilt and shift function, Vocas ! The reflection problem will go away instantly. This will be the best combination if you want to use Pancro NDIR.

R
 
Rival, you can stack the Mitomo TrueND filters when you need to, and so far I haven't seen any ghosting issues during testing. A few weeks ago I was visiting a test result viewing at a post house, and the colorist (who has seen a lot of R3D footage) was deeply impressed by the neutral quality of the TrueND's. He's so tired of time-consuming color tint correction before he can start to grade, that he now highly recommend all his clients to go for TrueND during pre-production. The filters are very concequent when it comes to color neutrality and are accurate when comes to transmittance. For me Mitomo TrueND's are the number one (IR)ND solution to go for. They're quite expensive compared to the competition, but will be compensated by less color tint correction time during post.

Second I would recommend to use Tiffen (combined) Hot Mirror IRND's, which you can't stack and can cause ghosting. Beside that you must be aware of the color tint compensation needed to be done during post.

Third I would go for a Tiffen Hot Mirror (or equal) with Tifffen (Full Spectrum) IRND's or Schneider Platinum IRND's, but be aware of ghosting. When needed you can skip the Hot Mirror up to a IRND1.2. Always place the Hot Mirror before all other filters with the right side pointing to the set (they've a front and a back).

I have no experience with the Formatt Hot Mirror HD ND filters.

One other advice, don't mix brands in a multi camera setup. Select filters from close / same batches, and also here the Mitomo TrueND's rock.

Cheers, Vincent
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top