Holiday Update + IPP2 Preview Build

[Alex.Mitchell]

Thanks so much for the continued hard work Red team! Hopefully this isn't a really dumb question, but does IPP2 have any benefits for MX sensor cameras (Red One/Epic-X)?

 

[vincent kardasik]

It's getting better every month!
Thanks to the all Red Team ad to Phil for the continuous improvements and support.
Happy Holidays from France Guys!

 

[Charles Bergquist]

Any improvement in highlight retention on the Helium yet?

Based on everything I've seen the Dragon V2 Weapon sensor still seems to beat out the Helium in highlight rolloff and retention.

 

[Daniel Pearson]

Hi Jarred and Brent, is the Monochrome Scarlet W still planned for early 2017?

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Thanks so much for the continued hard work Red team! Hopefully this isn't a really dumb question, but does IPP2 have any benefits for MX sensor cameras (Red One/Epic-X)?

If you fire up the IPP2 preview build of REDCine-X you can try all your old footage. In testing I use a suite of footage dating back to the original Red One, through MX, Dragon and VV and Helium sensors. The same system benefits work across all footage.

Graeme

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Any improvement in highlight retention on the Helium yet?

Based on everything I've seen the Dragon V2 Weapon sensor still seems to beat out the Helium in highlight rolloff and retention.

For Helium, if you set the ISO to 1280 you'll get very similar degree of highlight protection that Dragon gets at ISO800. You can do that because of the lower noise and higher sensitivity of the Helium sensor.

Graeme

 

[Noah Yuan-Vogel]

I think Jarred answered that question in the first post. :smile:

I don't believe this was explicitly stated. Sounds like this firmware update adds RWGRGB in camera, but it wasn't entirely clear to me from the first post what else is included and whether it means it's possible now to get proper looking saturated colors in prores files. Are you saying this definitely fixes color issues with all other color spaces and gamma curves available in camera on Helium? That wasn't clear to me from the first post.

 

[Scott Evans]

Any update on the 1 TB Mini Mags? They've been unavailable for awhile

 

[Steve DiMaggio]

presets and user settings reset after upgrade, but notes say it shouldn't
NOTE: User Preset, Look, and Custom Overlay files will be preserved across upgrades of v6.2.3 or later.

I wasnt on the dec 8 firmware I was on the one before, epic-w


steve

 

[Graeme Nattress]

I don't believe this was explicitly stated. Sounds like this firmware update adds RWGRGB in camera, but it wasn't entirely clear to me from the first post what else is included and whether it means it's possible now to get proper looking saturated colors in prores files. Are you saying this definitely fixes color issues with all other color spaces and gamma curves available in camera on Helium? That wasn't clear to me from the first post.

RWG/Log3G10 is the first stage of IPP2 processing. The IPP2 system fixes colour issues going out to any other colour space by artfully mapping in out of gamut colours. At the moment, the IPP2 preview in camera (use the preset named "IPP2 Preview (Red)" to set it up) is set to target a monitor with REC709 primaries and BT1886 gamma like any typical HD monitor. The IPP2 preview does not alter the operation of the legacy processing options (REDColors, DragonColors, etc.) To get the colour benefits we had to move to this entirely new image processing pipeline (which gives other benefits too, like easy adherence to industry standard named colour spaces, HDR)

Graeme

 

[Josh Becker]

For Helium, if you set the ISO to 1280 you'll get very similar degree of highlight protection that Dragon gets at ISO800. You can do that because of the lower noise and higher sensitivity of the Helium sensor.

Graeme

I had a strong feeling about this. I kept seeing guys complaining about clipped highlights when they shot like it was a Dragon. I have been shooting commercials at 1280 because I've found the "noise" (grain, really) to be totally acceptable while affording me additional highlight headroom!

However, I noticed that the Epic-W manual says the "default" (standard? "native"? however you want to refer to it) ISO was 800. Any word on if you'll increase that as a recommendation to those who are used to how RED's handle highlights?

 

[Graeme Nattress]

I had a strong feeling about this. I kept seeing guys complaining about clipped highlights when they shot like it was a Dragon. I have been shooting commercials at 1280 because I've found the "noise" (grain, really) to be totally acceptable while affording me additional highlight headroom!

However, I noticed that the Epic-W manual says the "default" (standard? "native"? however you want to refer to it) ISO was 800. Any word on if you'll increase that as a recommendation to those who are used to how RED's handle highlights?

It all depends on how you shoot. If you use the exposure tools and go with an ETTR method (expose to the right) it matters not on ISO. If you just want to set an ISO and expose by light, ISO800 is still a very reasonable starting point. Remember, many people shoot low ISO on Dragon - ISO250 or ISO400 and Helium cameras have more headroom extension at ISO800 than either of those low ISO settings on Dragon.

Graeme

 

[Trent Lillehaugen]

presets and user settings reset after upgrade, but notes say it shouldn't
NOTE: User Preset, Look, and Custom Overlay files will be preserved across upgrades of v6.2.3 or later.

I wasnt on the dec 8 firmware I was on the one before, epic-w


steve

The note says that your Preset, Look, and Overlay FILES will be preserved; not that your settings will be preserved. If you created a preset with your preferred setup it will still be on your camera and you can re-apply it.

 

[Jason Han]

Literally dropped everything I was doing and rushed home when my friend texted me about this firmware. Thank you so much Jarred, Graeme, and everyone at RED for this early Christmas gift, you don't know how much this means to me to have this banding fixed. I'm sorry for having any doubts about the camera... this issue made me feel disconnected to my Epic-W, but now I can really shoot this thing with pride. I can't wait to see the full IPP2 build in action.

And a quick sample of IPP2 with this firmware:

Thanks for the test Phil. I wonder if you exposed exactly the same before/after, if you did the new firmware seems to have improved highlight retention. Or is that due to the color/rolloff improvements? Your skin looks much nicer on the new firmware

 

[Phil Holland]

Thanks for the test Phil. I wonder if you exposed exactly the same before/after, if you did the new firmware seems to have improved highlight retention. Or is that due to the color/rolloff improvements? Your skin looks much nicer on the new firmware

The In Camera Exposure Tools are incredibly useful

There's not a massive difference in exposure with the new calibration/firmware as well.

 

[Steve DiMaggio]

The note says that your Preset, Look, and Overlay FILES will be preserved; not that your settings will be preserved. If you created a preset with your preferred setup it will still be on your camera and you can re-apply it.

I figured it out, since you soft keys are not preserved when reboot, you just need to load a preset back up that has all your info

steve

 

[Brad Grimm]

Literally dropped everything I was doing and rushed home when my friend texted me about this firmware. Thank you so much Jarred, Graeme, and everyone at RED for this early Christmas gift, you don't know how much this means to me to have this banding fixed. I'm sorry for having any doubts about the camera... this issue made me feel disconnected to my Epic-W, but now I can really shoot this thing with pride. I can't wait to see the full IPP2 build in action.


Thanks for the test Phil. I wonder if you exposed exactly the same before/after, if you did the new firmware seems to have improved highlight retention. Or is that due to the color/rolloff improvements? Your skin looks much nicer on the new firmware

I am finding about an additional half stop in Highlight retention... But its not scientific...

 

[Jason Han]

Just tested the new firmware with a new shade, it's unbelievable.. the banding is fixed! This is just awesome

RWG/Log3G10 is the first stage of IPP2 processing. The IPP2 system fixes colour issues going out to any other colour space by artfully mapping in out of gamut colours. At the moment, the IPP2 preview in camera (use the preset named "IPP2 Preview (Red)" to set it up) is set to target a monitor with REC709 primaries and BT1886 gamma like any typical HD monitor. The IPP2 preview does not alter the operation of the legacy processing options (REDColors, DragonColors, etc.) To get the colour benefits we had to move to this entirely new image processing pipeline (which gives other benefits too, like easy adherence to industry standard named colour spaces, HDR)

Graeme

Just wanted to make sure I understood this right Graeme, so you mentioned that the full IPP2 system fixes colour issues going out to any other colour space, i.e., DragonColors, but the IPP2 preview does not? Does that mean we have to wait for the full IPP2 system in order for other colour spaces to work better on Helium?

You mentioned this to me in previous conversations that Log3G10 wields better results, more latitude etc etc, but the post I work with along with my own post process currently uses RedLogFilm as we haven't had time to adjust to Log3G10 yet. Do you suggest we all move to Log3G10 on the Heliums? What about Dragons? Is RLF dead/replaced?

 

[Chris Kennedy]

Thanks for the update! Not only firmware but on shipping cameras! Patiently waiting to be allocated for Weapon Helium!

Think for those of us who also use Nikon lenses to get more support for Nikon lenses soon! In particular the Nikkor 24-70 f/2.8 VR?

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Just tested the new firmware with a new shade, it's unbelievable.. the banding is fixed! This is just awesome



Just wanted to make sure I understood this right Graeme, so you mentioned that the full IPP2 system fixes colour issues going out to any other colour space, i.e., DragonColors, but the IPP2 preview does not? Does that mean we have to wait for the full IPP2 system in order for other colour spaces to work better on Helium?

You mentioned this to me in previous conversations that Log3G10 wields better results, more latitude etc etc, but the post I work with along with my own post process currently uses RedLogFilm as we haven't had time to adjust to Log3G10 yet. Do you suggest we all move to Log3G10 on the Heliums? What about Dragons? Is RLF dead/replaced?

The IPP2 system works only with named industry standard colour spaces - say P3, Adobe1998, Rec2020, Rec709 etc. etc. When fully implemented in camera, there'll be a list of what space (from appropriate ones for in-camera use and a wider list in REDCine-X) you want to nicely gamut map to. For the preview it's basically defaulted to Rec709 as that's what people are used to, but the system can go to anything (within reason).

RLF is just not wide enough in range going forwards. As I mention on the RWG thread ( http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?152802-REDWideGamutRGB-and-Log3G10 ) it's not a big enough container for HDR use (or at least to meat full HDR spec, it's ok for now for the more limited HDR max brightnesses) so thinking forwards, the time was right to go to something bigger.

If you look at the math in the RWG document, it's pretty easy to implement a change from using RLF to Log3G10, and if you need any help there, drop me an email and I'll help you out.

Graeme