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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

High Speed Lens Shootout

Jiri Vrozina said:
Just an excuse. Do not forget mate we have lots of "Rental Guys" on this forum. Lots of $$$$ invested in well known brands. Second test wiil be "low end" shoot out- Canon CN vs Rokinon. Haha
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I understand your POV, but those expensive lenses are not expensive just for fun IMHO. They are made with less (no) compromise. $$$$ are in little details.

Pat
 
We all know that, thats why i would love to see how BIG the gap is between Top End and affordable Lenses like Canon CN and CP.2. Even if the mix in sets of 3s.
 
Guys, none of us performing this test own any of these sets, none of us own rental houses, and none of us have interest in making high end glass look the best. This was just a fun idea to put the older and more budget friendly sets against the "top" lenses in the industry. None of us owe anything to a rental house to promote their gear and none of us have any vested interest in any of the lens companies. If you have issues or believe the test to be skewed, please join us at the shoot.

If you can find the Rokinons or Canon Cine lenses in PL then we will test them. It's a lot of work and will take a lot of time to test the sets already listed and changing out lens mounts is not helping in that regard.

Full res images as well as the original R3D grabs will be made available for download once the test is completed.
 
We all understand that Ryan and we all thank you for that effort. But it should be easier getting set of CP.2 then Leicas. Can you do it please? Just for FUN of it. I would really love to see how big the difference is, especially on new Canon CN. Thank you again for your work.
 
Jiri Vrozina said:
We all understand that Ryan and we all thank you for that effort. But it should be easier getting set of CP.2 then Leicas. Can you do it please? Just for FUN of it. I would really love to see how big the difference is, especially on new Canon CN. Thank you again for your work.
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Cp.2 Super Speeds are possible. They are the only set with PL mount so I guess we can add them to the test.
 
Jiri Vrozina said:
It is very silly excuse not to include $5000 lenses like Canon CN. I am sure it is done so it does not compete against well known brands. I wold love to see the real gap between top end optics and affordable ones...
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I can save some people time and say that no matter the results, the difference in cost won't ever equal the difference in performance. Just saying the big expensive guys are probably going to do very well, but you won't be seeing the difference in optics being what you'd think the difference in price tag would be. Just saying, if you are not already familiar with some of these lens sets, don't expect MP's to see through women's clothing or around corners. You'd think they would at that price, but hey, they are just really nice lenses. :)

I'd definitely like to help and I would also be interested in helping with designing the tests.

First, I'd like to make a point to examine lens performance in BOTH the traditional S35mm frame and also in the larger sizes, in this case the 5k area of the Epic sensor. I think we need to acknowledge the performance of these lenses at those two points, in regards to the image circle, considering many of these lenses were designed at specifications for a S35mm area and not much greater, although they may cover and perform well, despite. It depends on lens design and I think it should be addressed and examined.

I would like cinematographers and others to walk away from this test with an idea of lens performance when used on both normal S35mm frames, (such as C300/F3/F5/F55/F65/Alexa/and R1's, not to mention 4k Epic/Scarlett), as well as when used on Red's larger options, such as Epic 5K, etc. That way we better understand how these lenses perform at those certain sensor sizes. I don't want a wide angle Master Prime to fall apart at the extreme corners of Epic 5k size, be declared not as good as a another lens without being specified as to being at 5k, and why. If the wide angle MP lens is outperformed at a normal S35mm sensor size, than a generalized statement is acceptable , in my opinion.

I just think it is unfair to throw a lens under the 5k bus without looking at it's intended frame. This isn't a 5k shootout, but we shouldn't favor 5k nor should we ignore it as it's a really great format. I think we should look at both.
 
Matt Ryan said:
Day 1 we will test for:
  • Resolving power
  • Contrast
  • Color Rendition
  • Accuracy of marks
  • Flaring
  • and optical flaws
They will be tested from t1.3/1.4/1.5 up

Day 2:
  • Shoot interior low light set wide open ( most every modern lens is sharp from t2.8 and above so we really want to push this test and see what we can get wide open) Besides, there are plenty of sharp t1.9 lens sets out there (Ultra Primes, S4's, Red Pro Primes, etc.)

  • Daylight exterior scene with high detail.


Once the test has concluded, images in DPX as well as the original R3D grabs will be available for download. This way you can take a look at 100% to analyze with your own eyes. We will post a complete detailed result on each lens for evaluation. Day 2 is mainly to break up the traditional charts only tests which while useful, are sometimes far less telling than real world tests.

Right now we are planning on doing this mid January and a looking for a couple interested members to help out with the test. It's late and I just got off set so I may have left some things out that I will add in later so please refer back to this post. As of right now Will Keir is donating his Epic, Matt Duclos is donating his facility, and Jarred has donated the RED studios facility for day 2. Main issue will be getting our hands on all these sets for 2 days, so if anyone has any contacts who can help us out it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!
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I think we should add these as well:

1) Center-to-edge sharpness differences (heard the Summilux's were badass's on this)
2) Uneven field illumination (gradual vignetting)
3) not only color rendition, but color matching across the set AND if there is any shift from WFO. I've seen it before in Supers. Weirdness.
4) Breathing
5) Along with accuracy of marks, we should note focus throw amount, and quantity/quality of marks, just as a note.
6) Bokeh. I think it's a purely subjective category (aren't they all to some degree?!) but if we are doing speed lenses, we should get some bokeh tests and see what it looks like wide open and stopped down a bit. Maybe WFO and T/5.6? Not opposed to something in between, say 2.8
7) and how can we forget our good WFO friend named CA? :P
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
I think we should add these as well:

1) Center-Edge sharpness.
2) Uneven field illumination (gradual vignetting)
3) not only color rendition, but color matching across the set AND if there is any shift from WFO. I've seen it before in Supers. Weirdness.
4) Breathing
5) Along with accuracy of marks, we should note focus throw amount, and quantity/quality of marks, just as a note.
6) Bokeh. I think it's a purely subjective category (aren't they all to some degree?!) but if we are doing speed lenses, we should get some bokeh tests and see what it looks like wide open and stopped down a bit. Maybe WFO and T/5.6? Not opposed to something in between, say 2.8
7) and how can we forget our good WFO friend named CA? :P
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All of that will be tested. Check out Matt Duclos' post. I was too tired to write it all out last night haha
 
Provided there is enough time, I'll provide the CP.2 Super Speeds as well as the Rokinon Cine primes. I might have the Canon Cine primes by then as well.
There's no reason not to include the entire gamut of lens options. As I've discussed before, cinema optics prices increase exponentially with very little, but practical results. It's simply the nature of precision.
 
I would especially like to see a Canon mount Scarlet at the test, with a Rokinon lens attached. No need for PL mount. The mount does not change the optical performance of the lens.

I want to see any 'Gucci effect' exposed and erased, if that is the result, so be it. If not, we are so much the wiser.

Thank you for agreeing with posting full resolution stills. 4K imaging demands this.
 
Matthew Duclos said:
Provided there is enough time, I'll provide the CP.2 Super Speeds as well as the Rokinon Cine primes. I might have the Canon Cine primes by then as well.
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It looks like the 35mm CN-E won't be ready for a bit, but if you want to add the 35mm f/1.4L I've got one and most of the other L primes.
 
Les Dittert said:
I would especially like to see a Canon mount Scarlet at the test, with a Rokinon lens attached. No need for PL mount. The mount does not change the optical performance of the lens.
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If you open up to still lenses as well, the test will be massive. No need to. There already is huge amount of resources and tests of almost every still lens ever produced.

We all know that still lenses can deliver excellent optical results, but a cine lens is much more than the optical quality. Ergonomics, mechanics, cine form factor, matched sets and solid PL-mounts is what really differentiates still lenses from cine lenses.
 
I'd like to do many tests. 7 sets should be a full load this time around. If we can come up with the glass for another test, you have my support.

Patrick Tresch said:
+1

I Understand completely your point Matt of choosing the top line of optics and full sets. I would also be keen to see another test with those "photo grade" lenses.
But I would be happy to see the 35mm Rokinon/Canon just to have an idea.

Another test could hold different results due to different setting/light/mood ;-)

Greatly appreciate your efforts, and as always: it's impossible to please everybody ;-)

Patrick
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Les Dittert said:
I would especially like to see a Canon mount Scarlet at the test, with a Rokinon lens attached. No need for PL mount. The mount does not change the optical performance of the lens.

I want to see any 'Gucci effect' exposed and erased, if that is the result, so be it. If not, we are so much the wiser.

Thank you for agreeing with posting full resolution stills. 4K imaging demands this.
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I wouldn't as much... I'd rather see a mount change, so that the lenses can be used on the exact same sensor for true comparison. If we ever wanted a good comparison of color rendition and other things, I would not be happy using two cameras. I feel the differences between lenses can sometimes be so minute that this variable change would be a factor that could destroy the process. Different cameras for different tests is fine, but I wouldn't want to inter-mix cameras within one test when we are taking such an intense peak into the details.
 
Matthew Duclos said:
Provided there is enough time, I'll provide the CP.2 Super Speeds as well as the Rokinon Cine primes. I might have the Canon Cine primes by then as well.
There's no reason not to include the entire gamut of lens options. As I've discussed before, cinema optics prices increase exponentially with very little, but practical results. It's simply the nature of precision.
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You are the Best Matthew!
 
I've got K35s and would love to be involved! They are in BNCR mount (24,35,55,85) and the 18mm is in PL. I'm in LA, so let me know. Thanks Matt!
 
I can bring the Elites.

I recommend keeping it limited to PL mount and cine mechanics. Real world testing takes a lot of care and effort to do correctly.
that being said, curious about Clint's offer of the BNCR K35's

Evin, Matt, Phil and I have already did a few tests on stills primes if you are curious. The biggest differences between stills and
cine lenses is not going to be resolution, but your ability put resolution to use in a shot where the subject and or camera moves.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
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