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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Helium Exposure / Monitoring - continually updated starting 10/12/2016

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Dan Kanes

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Hi All,

Spent some time with the Epic-W Helium at Hot Rod Cameras today.

Got to play with Scott D's White Helium special edition a couple weeks ago.

At that time it seemed exactly the same (almost) between Dragon (LLO) and Helium(standard).

That was in controlled lighting.

Today in uncontrolled lighting I felt different results.

my preferred monitoring path today was actually Redcolor 4, Redgamma2

Not 100% sure on this yet... but gut feeling is this is a native 2000-3200ISO sensor when standard OLPf is in play.

Dyamic range is very good, at the same time my eye perceives more contrast in this sensor...I think it's natively more capable of picking up natural colors and casts... which can be good or bad depending on your goals for a scene.

I think the new color science will be better calibrated for this sensor, and soon hopefully.

Until then, I plan to be more cautious of my highlights even if the goalposts don't light up from clipping.

The sensor is capable of seeing things our eyes can't natively, and that is something to remember.

The film stock analogy 100% holds true here, spend time with your camera and sensor.

Long story short I would not feel shy setting camera to 2000 ISO outdoors and Nding, maybe 1600 in studio... might be able to get away with 800 at times.

At this time, I would plan on exposing to the right but not blindly, expose to the right and guard clipping. If you see something you don't like in the monitor highlight wise, stop down or ND, don't plan on recovering highlights to save a shot.

my favorite right now as of today: 3200 ISO, Redcolor4, Redgamma2 - 10/12/2016
 
In short slow mo looks gorgeous, just like we knew it would with all other Red cameras.

a key tool for understanding the new frame sizes is Phil's tool called Format Compare... too lazy to dig up a link at the moment.

Feature Request:

8K60P, 6K120P downsampled to 2K prores4444 (no r3d) in realtime... dunno if that's possible but would be nice.
 
Dan Kanes said:
In short slow mo looks gorgeous, just like we knew it would with all other Red cameras.

a key tool for understanding the new frame sizes is Phil's tool called Format Compare... too lazy to dig up a link at the moment.

Feature Request:

8K60P, 6K120P downsampled to 2K prores4444 (no r3d) in realtime... dunno if that's possible but would be nice.
Click to expand...


PHFX | tools is in my signature and I'm very glad it's helping. Working on some new more wordy stuff this month to help out on a few fronts too!

I have a theory about how REDCODE RAW encodes off of Helium, since the noise floor is so different I'm betting higher frame rates look rather banging.

ProRes 4444 is pretty chunky, but certainly something the engineers could look into if solo recording. Very curious what could be achieved when rolling an Intermediate Codec only for certain production workflows. Time will tell.
 
Dan, thanks so much for putting this impression into words. It's helpful to people who would like to start wrapping their heads around this new sensor but haven't had a hands-on experience yet.

Phil...man, thanks for all you do. Not sure how I missed this page of goodies, but Format Compare is something I was hoping was around. Not only is it handy for comparisons, but it's also so damn well done. Very much appreciated...
 
Thanks Mr. Litton.

Oh One more thing - when in doubt, you can always view RAW on camera, and then use CameraRGB decoding in RCX along with Linear gamma... haven't brought files into RCX and done that yet, but did do some low level messing around with ETTR and Highlight protection concepts on a Laptop while on site.

My Epic-W should arrive tomorrow and will continue posting impressions.

Excited to try my Kipperties on this puppy, and I think the STH olpf might come in handy ;)
 
Curious how 7K 10:1, 12:1 and 14:1 hold up at 800 iso.

Considering there should be almost NO NOISE...higher compressions like this may work pretty well...and could come in handy when file sizes need to be managed (for ex on doc shoots).
 
Thanks Stacey!

Gut feeling is that the current exposure tools (stoplights and goalposts) in camera don't really apply - except possibly under Raw. And that's only possibly... we're gonna need a bigger boat.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Curious how 7K 10:1, 12:1 and 14:1 hold up at 800 iso.

Considering there should be almost NO NOISE...higher compressions like this may work pretty well...and could come in handy when file sizes need to be managed (for ex on doc shoots).
Click to expand...

Nick, that is a good point. Curious about higher compression together with lower noise ratio on Helium.
 
Phil Holland said:
PHFX | tools is in my signature and I'm very glad it's helping. Working on some new more wordy stuff this month to help out on a few fronts too!

I have a theory about how REDCODE RAW encodes off of Helium, since the noise floor is so different I'm betting higher frame rates look rather banging.

ProRes 4444 is pretty chunky, but certainly something the engineers could look into if solo recording. Very curious what could be achieved when rolling an Intermediate Codec only for certain production workflows. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

To me it feels like truncated, think that more bits are needed? :biggrin:
 
Dolph van Stapele said:
Nick, that is a good point. Curious about higher compression together with lower noise ratio on Helium.
Click to expand...

Yup me too. We do lots of travel jobs and long interviews, and with most of our Media Management still happening on laptop setups to G-Tech drives, would to GREAT to figure out a ideal shooting compression/ratios on Helium.

Time will tell!

I also think Helium + Motion Mount could be killer. As shooting at 1280-2000 in Studio environments could be impractical (especially for highlights).
 
Nick Morrison said:
Yup me too. We do lots of travel jobs and long interviews, and with most of our Media Management still happening on laptop setups to G-Tech drives, would to GREAT to figure out a ideal shooting compression/ratios on Helium.

Time will tell!

I also think Helium + Motion Mount could be killer. As shooting at 1280-2000 in Studio environments could be impractical (especially for highlights).
Click to expand...

I have ef motion mount, next test lets see what gives.
 
Shooting off the cuff here...

I think optimal long recording format on Epic-W is 6KHD or 6K Open Gate. Optimal for Data, if you don't plan on reframing from 8K. save 8K for those beauty shots you used to shoot 6K for , and would shoot 5KHD or 4Khd to save space. Yes, it's more punched in, but that won't necessarily kill you unless you're trying to be close up with a wide angle lens.

Also, I think I'm going to Redact my suggestion of RedColor4 and Redgamma2... Possibly... Still not sure.

Thinking with Standard OLPF - rating sensor at 1600...

Quadruple check your Raw before you roll anything...

trying a fresh blackshade on the camera right now to see what that does.

Methinks there is some more calibration in the works... because of how this sensor Sees the world... it sees things we aren't used to seeing, so if you don't want to see those things, you have to plan for it.

Sorry if that's a bit coded...
 
Dan Kanes said:
Shooting off the cuff here...

I think optimal long recording format on Epic-W is 6KHD or 6K Open Gate. Optimal for Data, if you don't plan on reframing from 8K. save 8K for those beauty shots you used to shoot 6K for , and would shoot 5KHD or 4Khd to save space. Yes, it's more punched in, but that won't necessarily kill you unless you're trying to be close up with a wide angle lens.

Also, I think I'm going to Redact my suggestion of RedColor4 and Redgamma2... Possibly... Still not sure.

Thinking with Standard OLPF - rating sensor at 1600...

Quadruple check your Raw before you roll anything...

trying a fresh blackshade on the camera right now to see what that does.

Methinks there is some more calibration in the works... because of how this sensor Sees the world... it sees things we aren't used to seeing, so if you don't want to see those things, you have to plan for it.

Sorry if that's a bit coded...
Click to expand...

6K at what compression?

Problem with this is the FOV is equivalent to 4K on Dragon (ie Raven at 4KHD).

I'm in love with 5K Dragon for doc (Super 35), which would be 7K Helium (ie TWICE the data at same compression)...
 
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