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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDRx samples...

Michael Cioni said:
I've recently had the opportunity to work with HDRx™ from the post production perspective. I find that implementing Epic HDRx™ media into a normal workflow is seamless, efficient, and won't create a burden in the post or DI processes.

One of the best things about shooting with HDRx™ is that specific decisions as to how to create a desired end result does not need to be determined immediately. This is a critical notion when discussing how to deal with HDRx™ media when planning your offline strategy. With HDRx™ captured media, dailies can still be generated using the traditional "A-frame" for normal processing and delivery to the cutting room. REDCine-X provides a simple (toggle-able) way to view both the "A" and "X" frames upon review and initial debayer. Once you are ready for DI, a conformed list will call for a single (HDRx™ pre-packaged) R3D where an operator can affect "A" and "X" frames independently of one another.

Below is an extreme test clip shot by John Schwartzman in which we initially processed the "A" (normal) frame for primary review/dailies. The second frame represents the "X" (under) frame which was set at +6. The final frame represents the composite (blended) frame which was determined by the colorist and DP.

The most important component to our experience with HDRx™ media is that HDRx™ frames do not require external compositing which is very important in maintaining a cost-effective DI workflow. With advanced DI tools, the ability for a colorist and DP to have a timeline that contains both standard R3Ds accompanied by HDRx™ R3Ds means they have complete control over the end result without ever having to leave the DI timeline. These files were custom-composited together in 4K using Quantel Pablo by Ian Vertovec during the DI session. In other words, they were not treated as an external visual effect.
Thank you, John, for letting us share these.
m
Click to expand...


Michael,

That is a great example of what I was hoping for. Looks perfect.
 
David Quinn Carder said:
Thanks for the info and images Michael. I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the shirt in the background (right side of the image). Where did the highlight on the left and the bottom of the shirt in the blended version come from? It looks about equal in brightness to the highlight at the top of the shirt. The whole shirt is blown out in the underexposed shot and in the normal exposure, the left and bottom of the shirt is significantly darker than the highlight at the top of the shirt.
Click to expand...

The highlight you are seeing on the shirt is an artifact of my blending.

Keep in mind that we are bending physics to the extreme. John and I were really just seeing how far we could go before it started to look unnatural.

I think that it looks pretty nice for a +6. You probably wouldn't want to depend on a +6 because getting them to blend well is more difficult as there is much less common exposure. I would recommend a +1 or +2 and really just pushing the X frame data into the highlights to get you a much better rolloff on top. More filmic.

As a colorist, HDRx is an amazing tool. This is one of the most exciting technological developments for creatives in a long time. I am concerned about the creative temptation to go too far. For me I kept finding myself making the image too low contrast because I was trying to fit in all the data I had.
 
Ian Vertovec said:
For me I kept finding myself making the image too low contrast because I was trying to fit in all the data I had.
Click to expand...

That is something I've been thinking about a lot with the increase in DR available on current digital cameras such as the Alexa and sure to come with the Epic.

I think contrast is necessary to make a 'rich' images and to build that contrast you either have to throw away a lot of the info or do a lot of very intricately tracked power windows (such as in 'children of men')

Where are you coloring these days? I haven't worked with you since 'Evilution' back at plaster city...
 
I am really excited about it.
It'll be very useful for shooting live performance, where controlling exposure is very challenging.
 
viewing on cam

viewing on cam

Jim,

are the Hdrx clips stored sequentially on the media? i.e. Will you be able to scroll both exposures when playing back on board so that you can eval both exposures? I'd imagine they'd just be two separate r3ds, with a common base name... a toggle function would seem handy as Hdrx will start to change the strategies that we employ towards exposure - think of it as toggle selecting which exposure we're able to view while setting up a shot... Thanks
 
Ian Vertovec said:
The highlight you are seeing on the shirt is an artifact of my blending.

Keep in mind that we are bending physics to the extreme. John and I were really just seeing how far we could go before it started to look unnatural.

I think that it looks pretty nice for a +6. You probably wouldn't want to depend on a +6 because getting them to blend well is more difficult as there is much less common exposure. I would recommend a +1 or +2 and really just pushing the X frame data into the highlights to get you a much better rolloff on top. More filmic.

As a colorist, HDRx is an amazing tool. This is one of the most exciting technological developments for creatives in a long time. I am concerned about the creative temptation to go too far. For me I kept finding myself making the image too low contrast because I was trying to fit in all the data I had.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
Mateo said:
That is something I've been thinking about a lot with the increase in DR available on current digital cameras such as the Alexa and sure to come with the Epic.

I think contrast is necessary to make a 'rich' images and to build that contrast you either have to throw away a lot of the info or do a lot of very intricately tracked power windows (such as in 'children of men')

Where are you coloring these days? I haven't worked with you since 'Evilution' back at plaster city...
Click to expand...

Hi Mathew, what's new? I am at Light Iron now with Micheal Cioni and much of the old team.

As far as retaining contrast with HDR, I prefer to avoid too many power windows. If a face is at or above the level of the sky illuminating it, the audience will know there is something wrong with the image even if it isn't immediately apparent. I typically feel that if you can achieve something with only a primary you probably should.

I think I really started seeing great results with HDR footage once I did in fact start to let details go a little bit and build some contrast by compressing details out completely.
 
Greg Strause said:
Jim,

are the HDRx™ clips stored sequentially on the media? i.e. Will you be able to scroll both exposures when playing back on board so that you can eval both exposures? I'd imagine they'd just be two separate r3ds, with a common base name... a toggle function would seem handy as HDRx™ will start to change the strategies that we employ towards exposure - think of it as toggle selecting which exposure we're able to view while setting up a shot... Thanks
Click to expand...

They're stored in tracks in a singular R3D.
In RCX you'll be able to view the each track or the hdr blend.
Exporting to EXR will give you a multiview EXR with both exposures (like a stereo EXR).
 
WOW thats just unreal. SOOO Looking forward to playing with it.
 
Thanks Stefan, I understood what Jay was reffering to...
As for you David, I am interested in that kind of look for something else, I am director, not a dp, so I am thinking about whole movie and not about a single shot in it...
 
Djordje said:
Thanks Stefan, I understood what Jay was reffering to...
As for you David, I am interested in that kind of look for something else, I am director, not a dp, so I am thinking about whole movie and not about a single shot in it...
Click to expand...
I think that HDR video looks AMAZING if you turn it into B&W...
And if you grade it to something more natural, I love the colors too.
 
Peter Matthes said:
That is really awesome, Jim.

Can the mixture of the two exposures be easily adjusted over the length of a shot?

Example: A transition from inside to outside.
Click to expand...

good suggestion. that would be really nice to have a nice easy tool for that :)
 
and for all you guys looking at that vimeo shot... stop before you get infected. i applaud their effort, it just looks terrible. a dslr was not the tool for the job. as a test, it's great, but you can see the problems it has very obviously.
 
viewing on cam

viewing on cam

Deanan said:
They're stored in tracks in a singular R3D.
In RCX you'll be able to view the each track or the hdr blend.
Exporting to EXR will give you a multiview EXR with both exposures (like a stereo EXR).
Click to expand...

That makes sense, but my curiosity is more centric to the workflow on set. Just like false color is an amazing tool once you re-program your way of thinking to the ways of digital acquisition, I think i'd find myself wanting an equiv tool for helping to gauge the amounts of stops one will need to set for the HDRX (stopped down) exposure in a given setup. Will use be able to select these tracks from playback on cam?

On the issue of EXR export, my only concern will be whether applications such as Flame and Inferno can load both channels, as these apps have been lacking in their multichannel exr flexibility in the past. Redline may need command line options to export the two channels as discrete image files, that can be combined later. Ultimately, having more options (algorithms) to combine these exposures within rcx and redline will grow in importance as the use of HDRx takes hold. Without such, its another step in the pipeline that users can mess up.

Very exciting stuff that I hope to play with soon.

greg
 
HDR Display

HDR Display

So - HDR is what you'd hope for - but has anyone output HDR images through an HDR Display yet - because that's the important issue to me, not whether the kit can achieve an easy cinematographic solution but (for which Jim, thanks for the vision) but the fact that standard displays make HDR look plastic because they show only 2-3 of the potential 15 orders of magnitude that the human vision system can function within, is a limiting factor. An HDR display should show at least 5 orders of magnitude (10 levels of black below standard displays and 30 times brighter too) and that the 5 orders that Epic can generate is similar to human visions' instantaneous state - and that's what an HDR display can do. So - anyone got access to that kind of display?
 
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