Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDRx Overview...

Thanks for clearing up all the technical details on this feature. The more I hear about it, the better it sounds. I wonder how long the post houses will take to get ready for this. Can't wait for someone to post some samples of this with motion.
 
The audio post brings up a question.

Will the Epic record audio when in HDRx mode?
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
I like the terminology of primary exposure track = the “A” track - as opposed to "normal exposure".

The reason I say this is that I think many of you will find, depending on how you want to use it, you will want to open up the exposure of the "A" track a bit to reveal more details in the shadows because the X track is going to restore your highlights.

You can 100% expose "normally" - but the more I started to play with it - the more I wanted to open up my "primary exposure" - shooting "hotter" than "normal". But yeah, depends on what you are shooting - and what you want to achieve.

Just saying - I like "primary exposure track" as terminology.
Click to expand...

Sounds like ETTR is back...
 
Jim, it seems to me that this technology might also be used one day to shoot 3D with one camera by taking the X frame and tilting it a few degrees off axis. It would probably require a frame crop for the final result... Do you think this is possible?
 
Norman B. Miller said:
Jim, it seems to me that this technology might also be used one day to shoot 3D with one camera by taking the X frame and tilting it a few degrees off axis. It would probably require a frame crop for the final result... Do you think this is possible?
Click to expand...

Not possible with the current configuration.

Jim
 
Will HDRx be available as a 'stereo' OFX plugin as well?

It's probably going to be important to separate RAW processing and HDRx for many effects. Aka take the two streams. Roto and paint on the xTrack and then combine with the normal exposure in HDRx later on.
 
Jannard said:
So you have two tracks... A & X. They can be combined together with a slider. That can mean 50-50, 61-39, 39-61, 25-75, 75-25, 100-0, or 0-100. All of one, all of the other, or any combination in between. Actually you can also just turn either one off to avoid any speed drag on the application. Does that help?

Jim
Click to expand...
Something is still buggin' me. It's the slider. Does that refer to the way Redcine X will control the HDRx footage? Is it ingrained into the SDK that that is the way other apps will handle the footage?
 
Elsie N said:
Something is still buggin' me. It's the slider. Does that refer to the way Redcine X will control the HDRx™ footage? Is it ingrained into the SDK that that is the way other apps will handle the footage?
Click to expand...

The slider on the default way to combine the two HDRx tracks will be in the SDK. There are also a myriad of other ways to combine the tracks. Whatever we come up with will also be included in the SDK. Additionally, there is no reason that other companies can't come up with their own sauce. So what is buggin' you? I can't quite figure it out.

Jim
 
This system is brilliant. Not one but two steps (dynamic range and motion blur) closer to how are eyes and brain interpret the world around us... What I can't believe is that Nikon or Canon haven't invented this for their still cameras... so much better than current bracketing systems. Bravo RED, this feature puts your cameras over the top (as soon as they are available) for both the still and motion cameras, film or digital.
 
Jannard said:
The slider on the default way to combine the two HDRx™ tracks will be in the SDK. There are also a myriad of other ways to combine the tracks. Whatever we come up with will also be included in the SDK. Additionally, there is no reason that other companies can't come up with their own sauce. So what is buggin' you? I can't quite figure it out.

Jim
Click to expand...
Maybe I should have said "puzzling me". It's just that you referred to the slider as if that would always be how we determined the mix of the two streams.

And while different apps often do the same thing a different way, I was just curious if we would only need to become accustomed to one universal method of doing this. It would be nice if the same method was used across the board, but not a necessity.
 
Elsie N said:
Maybe I should have said "puzzling me". It's just that you referred to the slider as if that would always be how we determined the mix of the two streams.

And while different apps often do the same thing a different way, I was just curious if we would only need to become accustomed to one universal method of doing this. It would be nice if the same method was used across the board, but not a necessity.
Click to expand...

The pictures we posted earlier were made with our standard DI system. No new software. We literally just loaded 2 dpx sequences (rendered out of RCX), stacked them on top of each other, and started keying/masking/coloring them.

I believe RED is also developing tools in the SDK to make this process more automated and hassle-free. (a la the slider)

I am assuming that blending the streams in the SDK will save most workflows some storage and render time as well.
 
Michael Hastings said:
Sounds like ETTR is back...
Click to expand...

What would be super awesome is if RED could add a "HDRx Check" button in the menu - this would have Off, +1, +2, etc.

All this would do is adjust the shutter setting - altering the monitor path so you could see (in an RGB representation) how much of your highlights are clipping and/or can be restored at the specific HDRx setting (+2, +3, etc.)

This way, for example, you could expose for the darkest part of the image that you want to hold detail, click on the HDRx™ Check in the menu and look at the monitor path and find your HDRx setting - as I think the name of the game, unless you are going for Magic Motion specifically as an effect, is to use the lowest amount of HDRx to get what you want.

You can obviously do this "manually" - changing the shutter and then changing it back - if you are good with math and can think fast - but I thin it would be wicked cool to have in the menu -

Just thinkin' out loud ....
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Mark, this sounds how this could be used in a good way by the "non-techie" DP, which there are quite a few of...
Click to expand...

Well ... I think even for an experienced DP - IMO it would nice to quickly see a good representation of the "X track" quickly - HDRx, in my opinion, is a monster power tool. You really have some significant choices and control over an exposure to create a desired effect. As soon as you mess around with it - it will just "click" in your brain how significant it is.

I'm sure we will see lots of folks use it poorly - like with any new, exciting tool - but we are going to see some amazing stuff - and we are going to "NOT SEE" HDRx used LOTS to get shots that would require more time and lighting changes, gelled windows, etc.
 
Exactly, Mark.

Allthough it is not hard to imagine where it might cause issues, for 75%-90% of the situations where I see I could use it, it would seem to be working "out of the box"... (Maybe - as I have obviously NOT been playing with it yet)

Of course it might be problematic in the moving car or live fire, situations.

But when Dollying in in the "living room" or Office, with the windows in the background, it would probably just be a huge time-saver.
While I do enjoy shooting in cars, alternative 2 is a much more common situation to me...
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Exactly, Mark.

Allthough it is not hard to imagine where it might cause issues, for 75%-90% of the situations where I see I could use it, it would seem to be working "out of the box"... (Maybe - as I have obviously NOT been playing with it yet)
Click to expand...

Sure it works "out of the box" - and like Ted says in REDUCATION - you can play checkers or you can play chess - if you wanna play chess you really want to know - a) what is the BEST exposure for your primary exposure track - and b) how many stops (+1, +2, etc.) of HDRx to use - these choices have a profound effect on your result - and the range you have to work with in post.

But sure, you can just open up a bit, exposing a bit more to the right, and "pick" (guess) an HDRx setting like ... +4 and go. And it will work. But trust me, you will want to dig deeper into the power and control of it -
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Sure it works "out of the box" - and like Ted says in REDUCATION - you can play checkers or you can play chess - if you wanna play chess you really want to know - a) what is the BEST exposure for your primary exposure track - and b) how many stops (+1, +2, etc.) of HDRx™ to use - these choices have a profound effect on your result - and the range you have to work with in post.

But sure, you can just open up a bit, exposing a bit more to the right, and "pick" (guess) an HDRx™ setting like ... +4 and go. And it will work. But trust me, you will want to dig deeper into the power and control of it -
Click to expand...

Agreed on all points...

Just trying to exemplify the kind of shots I think it may just work without too many motion artefacts, which has been discussed a lot.

There have been so much worry about where and when it may NOT work, which is a bit counterproductive.
I like to think up situations where it might work first... :-))

I really see how this works as to get a better "to the right" exposure.

And I could start using it like.... sometime... 3 years ago, about when RED started working on it, according to Jims post... :-)
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Just trying to exemplify the kind of shots I think it may just work without too many motion artefacts, which has been discussed a lot.
Click to expand...

Sure ... but don't get all caught up in people talking about "motion artifacts" who have not shot and post processed HDRx™. Soon enough you will see great examples. And I assume you get my point about using JUST ENOUGH HDR™ to get what you want, right? Because the higher stop you use - the bigger the difference is between motion blur and lack thereof in the A and X. So ... what I am pointing out is that you can "HDRx" on a given shot - with a BUNCH of different setting combinations (aperture + amount of HDRx) - AND then you have the post production options of how much of the X to combine - so - in just one given shot - you have MANY choices - and they can/will yield different results.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top