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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDRx Overview...

okay. don't shoot me...

i know you've said otherwise, but what's the possibility (maybe in the future via firmware) of allowing a user switch for HDR exposure. as in, let the user flip flop and protect the highlights in the normal exposure, if that's more important for the shot.

OR

if things do go wrong in the HDR interpolation, could you just simply use the x-stream as a normal file, or is there anything different about it?
 
When you need motion and stills to both look good

When you need motion and stills to both look good

It does seem as if the dual stream HDRx™ tech would provide less motion blurred information from the X track that could be combined in software to create a sharper still from the A track, regardless of highlight protection goals. I seek this, as the typical use for motion media includes a certain amount of motion blur to look like what we are used to, and to reduce the "judder" effect one would encounter by simply upping the shutter speed.

Perhaps as this technology matures there will be a "sweet spot" for projects that want great looking stills and traditional amounts of motion blur on the motion content. I can imagine shooting 1/96 sec as my A (primary) track to reduce total motion blur at base exposure acquisition and then 1/768 on my X track. For motion output the software would add a bit of motion blur to the combined image and for the stills it would remove some. I suggest this as the amount of motion blur in the base exposure A track at 1/48 on material with a pretty fair amount of motion in the scene (or camera move) might not yield enough "sharp" detail in the shadows to make acceptable stills and the amount of detail captured in the lower exposure zones on the X track would be pretty limited - not an issue for motion HDR but perhaps an issue for the stills.

Exciting stuff, and another example of why the future is digital rather than film for many projects, particularly those that will take the original images and create media for a wide variety of viewing environments. Imagine that the trim pass you do for mobile distro leans toward more contrast and less blur vs a theatrical deliverable that leans more toward controlling judder and flattening contrast to hold subtle gradations in tone. So much control.

Cheers - #19
 
sharpening can only get you so far if it's already blurred by the amount of time it exposed. it's much easier to add blur than to take it away. for stills you will want to pay attention to your motion blur on the normal exposure.
 
Laco Zamba said:
OK, Jim says ..."there is no gap in time between the two separate exposures"
So it means that they start at the same time or end at the same time or somewhere in the middle.
So sensor is read twice each frame is exposed. ... OK, why not :-) If RED can do it, I believe it. So, why nobody else did it same way?
Click to expand...

That is not what it means.

Jim
 
I Bloom said:
I think what Gunleik really wants is to use the A-track to add detail to the X-track. i.e. The sensitivity of a 360 shutter with the crispness of a 180 degree sensor. Same exact exposure mechanism different post process. Black protection instead of highlight protection. HDRx™™ upside down.

IBloom
Click to expand...

The electronics won't allow upside-down... but you can make the A-track 360 degree and the X-track 180 degree and over-expose the A-track.

Jim
 
So, if Epic-S is HDRx capable, does this mean Epic-S can also shoot 5K at 48fps non-HDR?
 
Jannard said:
The electronics won't allow upside-down... but you can make the A-track 360 degree and the X-track 180 degree and over-expose the A-track.

Jim
Click to expand...

Yup I Bloom, that'd cover it.

The reason I am thinking of it is of course because it would have been handy on something I am posting right now...
 
Elsie N said:
Yes, but you suggested you could throw away roll A and only use roll B. That's the only point I was inquiring about.
Click to expand...

So you have two tracks... A & X. They can be combined together with a slider. That can mean 50-50, 61-39, 39-61, 25-75, 75-25, 100-0, or 0-100. All of one, all of the other, or any combination in between. Actually you can also just turn either one off to avoid any speed drag on the application. Does that help?

Jim
 
Jannard said:
The electronics won't allow upside-down... but you can make the A-track 360 degree and the X-track 180 degree and over-expose the A-track.

Jim
Click to expand...

In that scenario, if you want to avoid the smeary look of 360 shutter, could you use the motion blur from the X-track instead of the A-track? If so, you guys have just added another stop of sensitivity to the M-X sensor. Amazing.

Edit: You posted again before I finished typing this question.
 
I think that Blair is following the same thought process as I am when it comes to using two streams for both a motion and still deliverable. I can see that being a very powerful way of working for some people, especially in areas like wedding coverage and of course epic's size makes it much more useable in those situations also.
 
Jannard said:
So you have two tracks... A & X. They can be combined together with a slider. That can mean 50-50, 61-39, 39-61, 25-75, 75-25, 100-0, or 0-100. All of one, all of the other, or any combination in between. Actually you can also just turn either one off to avoid any speed drag on the application. Does that help?

Jim
Click to expand...
Yes. Thanks for clearing that up in MY mind.

Weren't you posting around 6 AM this morning and now you are posting again at 1:00 PM? Sure doesn't take long to spend the night at your place.:sleep:
 
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HDRx in stills mode?

HDRx in stills mode?

Excuse me if it has been mentioned before, will HDRx work in stills mode?

How are the two frames packaged in stills mode?

In respect to stills and movie mode,
Will HDRx work at short duration exposure ie 1/500th in the primary exposure?
Will HDRX work at a long duration exposure ie 1 second, in the primary exposure?

Same question, asked a different way:)
Given potential for sports still use of Epic where primary shutter speed is greater than 1/250th what is the maximum theoretical electronic shutter speed for Epic that could be applied to the secondary exposure?


Mike Brennan
 
Are the two streams packaged together for life, or do they exist as separate files?



Mike Brennan
 
Laco Zamba said:
OK. So, we have one photo sensitive element. One frame is exposed 1/48 sec.
After that time voltage is read. And what is next? Or before? :-)
Click to expand...

Conjoined does not mean coincident. I'm not going to explain how this works in any more detail. If you follow what I posted, you will be fine.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
Conjoined does not mean coincident. I'm not going to explain how this works in any more detail. If you follow what I posted, you will be fine.

Jim
Click to expand...

OK, no problem. I just wanted to know more for time when my clients will ask me what HDRx is and how it works.
I hope that later we learn more. Thanks for your first post in this thread.
 
I guess I am still a little confused about the difference between "coincident" and "simultaneous." The earlier post said they WERE simultaneous. The further explanation says they are "conjoined" but that does NOT mean "coincident." So I fear I may be guilty of spreading misinformation earlier in assuming "simultaneous" = "coincident," at least in this context. Hmmmm.

I am fine about letting it go and just accepting its capability. I just don't want to contribute to any confusion, at least beyond my own. :confused5:

EDIT: OK - after re-reading Jim's explanation very carefully, I think he is saying the "tracks" are shot simultaneously but he is perhaps not necessarily saying the frames are. That frees up my own thinking up a little. :001_huh:
 
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