HDRx Overview...

[Elsie N]

Since it is a slider I would assume you can choose from only A to only X.

Emmanuel

Yes, that's the part I'm having trouble understanding.

But I kinda remember Jim or someone saying earlier that you record the two streams, then have the option of just disregarding the second stream and using the main (A) stream.

But intuitively, what you suggest sounds correct.

 

[Santiago Marti]

3D in one camera?

3D in one camera?

HDRx will be a giant leap in cinematography, no doubt about it. I want my epic now! He, but i was thinking, epic having the ability of recording two streams at the same time, isn't there a possibility with an adapter and two identical lenses, to record in 3D with only one camera? It is not a feature request it is just a thougt!

Santiago Martí.

 

[Laco Zamba]

And also I want to add that we will need more horse power to play HRDx footage: 2 streams, 5K, less compression

 

[David Battistella]

David, I am unclear on this... can we actually choose the X track only or is it an A track + X track or A track only choice?

Let me put it this way.


One camera. Two rolls of film recording at the same time.

Roll A - 1/48th 320 asa

Roll B - 1/96th 320asa

Now you can blend the two rolls to find a shutter speed and exposure that would yield the desired DR for any specific shot.

That is a flexibility film could never afford.
So this is a cinema first.

David

 

[Elsie N]

I like the terminology of primary exposure track = the “A” track - as opposed to "normal exposure".

The reason I say this is that I think many of you will find, depending on how you want to use it, you will want to open up the exposure of the "A" track a bit to reveal more details in the shadows because the X track is going to restore your highlights.

You can 100% expose "normally" - but the more I started to play with it - the more I wanted to open up my "primary exposure" - shooting "hotter" than "normal". But yeah, depends on what you are shooting - and what you want to achieve.

Just saying - I like "primary exposure track" as terminology.

That would be another thing I would like to see. Take a picture in a really dark environement with HDRx™. Can you get it to be sharp (alas no motion blur) while brightening it up with the other stream?

Felix, is this what you are asking about?

 

[Felix K.]

Thank you Elsie, I didn't see that! Good to see Mark posting his knowledge

 

[Elsie N]

Let me put it this way.


One camera. Two rolls of film recording at the same time.

Roll A - 1/48th 320 asa

Roll B - 1/96th 320asa

Now you can blend the two rolls to find a shutter speed and exposure that would yield the desired DR for any specific shot.

That is a flexibility film could never afford.
So this is a cinema first.

David

Yes, but you suggested you could throw away roll A and only use roll B. That's the only point I was inquiring about.

 

[Bill Anderson]

Another angle (not entirely new to image making) this hdr will more effectively let you treat your blacks/darks as creatively as your mids and highlights - rather than have them as being more reflexive. A reverse of common practice: we'll (occasionally) place/sculpt our lower tones, with the highlights being of secondary (aesthetic) concern. And I don't mean one should cavalierly disregard highlight info - rather, it will play to the lower end.

 

[Andrew Wilding]

Exciting stuff. And let's hope that magic motion will make shooting with a 360 degree shutter (a stream) more cinematic looking and less video blurry.I would think that a fast x track would give 360 footage a 180 shutter anngle feel. That would be huge for me. Potentially just made my camera a stop more sensitive in low light, as if it wasn't sensitive enough. You guys are incredible.

 

[Elsie N]

Exciting stuff. And let's hope that magic motion will make shooting with a 360 degree shutter (a stream) more cinematic looking and less video blurry.I would think that a fast x track would give 360 footage a 180 shutter anngle feel. That would be huge for me. Potentially just made my camera a stop more sensitive in low light, as if it wasn't sensitive enough. You guys are incredible.

This intrigues me no end... can't wait to try it.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I don't believe that they can start at the same time.

Based on Jim's detailed explanation, here:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53711

stating explicitly that the two streams happen simultaneously, it suggest they either start at the same time or end at the same time (or the short one happens in the middle somewhere) but they DO happen concurrently - not one after the other.

Just curious, why couldn't they start at the same time?

 

[Jared Caldwell]

I could see a need for +1 or +0 stops for HDRx...if all you want is Magic Motion. :}

 

[Laco Zamba]

Based on Jim's detailed explanation, here:

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53711

stating explicitly that the two streams happen simultaneously, it suggest they either start at the same time or end at the same time (or the short one happens in the middle somewhere) but they DO happen concurrently - not one after the other.

Just curious, why couldn't they start at the same time?

OK, Jim says ..."there is no gap in time between the two separate exposures"
So it means that they start at the same time or end at the same time or somewhere in the middle.
So sensor is read twice each frame is exposed. ... OK, why not If RED can do it, I believe it. So, why nobody else did it same way?

 

[Terry VerHaar]

OK, Jim says ..."there is no gap in time between the two separate exposures"
So it means that they start at the same time or end at the same time or somewhere in the middle.
So sensor is read twice each frame is exposed. ... OK, why not If RED can do it, I believe it. So, why nobody else did it same way?

Well, I suppose only those "others" could answer that but keep in mind that RED has developed their sensors from the ground up. And, although I am no electronics guru, those sensors do seem to be much more capable than anything else out there. Maybe the others simply can't do such things as yet.

 

[Laco Zamba]

Time for another RED patent ;-)

 

[Antonio Forjaz]

Jim, thanks so much for the detailed explanation.

 

[Dan Finlayson]

This is all very cool with the multiple exposures. But one thing I just don't understand:

You must have more light to get a denser exposure. Having two different shutter speeds accomplishes this.

So what does changing the ISO ACTUALLY do? To my understanding, any sensor has one, and only one, sensitivity, just like film. Of course, you can push or pull process film at the expense of DR.

So what really happens to the DR when you change ISOs? Why couldn't you have two tracks, each with the same shutter, but with two different ISOs? This doesn't make sense to me, but neither does 13 stops of DR at multiple ISOs in regular mode.

Perhaps this has been asked, but I haven't found an answer yet!

 

[I Bloom]

And before you get too carried away... the A-track will always be the longer (normal) exposure. You cannot set it up the other way.

Jim

I think what Gunleik really wants is to use the A-track to add detail to the X-track. i.e. The sensitivity of a 360 shutter with the crispness of a 180 degree sensor. Same exact exposure mechanism different post process. Black protection instead of highlight protection. HDRx™ upside down.

IBloom

 

[Jeff Coatney]

So, if normal exposure is Y, then: HDRx™= AY or +2 stops over) + XY -2, -4 or -6 stops under).

So to get the biggest range of latitude, you actually need to plan to use the HDRx™ to its maximum capability and adjust your primary exposure accordingly, as Mark suggests.

Jim or Jarred, could you post some images of the control interface so we can see how the histogram looks with HDRx™ turned on? If this has been posted before, I missed it-- just point me there.

I'd like a comparison of how the goalposts look with and without HDRx™. The normal exposure methodology is awesome, but does it adjust to account for HDRx™ exposure values, or is this where the user has to estimate the correction to maximize effect?

 

[Tim Nolte]

One question that occurs to me: are the exposures conjoined with the end of one joining the start of the other, or are the starts at the same time, with the ends coming at different times? Put another way, if the A track is a 180° shutter, does the X track add just a tiny fraction to that, so that the combined sharp and soft portions are something like a 185° shutter (not in terms of exposure, just blur)? Or are these happening at the same time, so the effective 5° blur of the X track is actually overlaid on the 180° blur of the A track?

I have in mind to illustrate my question, but don't have time right now. I'll try to upload a picture to make it more clear later.

In shooting, the difference may be negligible. I'm just trying to understand it better.