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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDR Mode...

As far as I am concerned, High Dynamic Range isn't specific at all. It really just means more dynamic range than is possible than normal. What normal is these days, I have no idea!

Now I will say that while HDR does not mean tone-mapping per say, there has to be a mechanism to take an HDR source and fit it into the range of current output technologies so it is useful. Call it what you want, the fact is, some scaling mechanism is going to be required to bring down that range eventually. There are of course a variety of methods and techniques that can be used. Maybe that's some of the magic.

And also, pertaining to speculation of capability, I actually am glad that Red is dropping us these bits of candy :) When was the last time you got to have fun speculating about capability? I certainly enjoy it myself. Can't think of any other products that evoke so much fun than maybe my Virus TI synthesizer which they do things to a point in a similar fashion.
 
Rick Burnett said:
Now I will say that while HDR does not mean tone-mapping per say, there has to be a mechanism to take an HDR source and fit it into the range of current output technologies so it is useful. Call it what you want, the fact is, some scaling mechanism is going to be required to bring down that range eventually. There are of course a variety of methods and techniques that can be used. Maybe that's some of the magic.
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Lol unless we had 32 bit floating point displays that would burn your eyes like the sun but still show detail in dark alleys...
 
it's cool if no processes are released, however would it be possible to at least see 1 image from said "mode." Just one. I know everyone will ask for more, just like they did after Leo, but, so be it, can we see just one?
 
Chris Clogg said:
I think tone mapping will be one of the greatest uses of it though, to preserve highlights or bring out shadow details... although subtlety, instead of insanely surreal (although this is an option too... more tools to bring visions to life)
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Thank you thank you. Now back to the main event. I really want to get a Red Rocket, but without the the promised NLE support in the current soft version and no XML, do you think I should take the plunge?
 
Really funny!

I think I have been through all these stages, though my blue line "Dammit I suck" sometimes comes back with my moods. :crying:

Truls Skare said:
Not totally on topic but I find this graph quite funny with the current trends of horrible tonemapping that people are calling HDR.

b2feF.png
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Amazing news!

That microsoft paper on deblurring using image pairs (a noisy image shot at higher framerate to convolve with a blurred longer exposure) was interesting. I think there are so many post paths to do a smart dynamic range extension; but the really cool thing would be something smart with the photosites themselves (variable resets etc.).

OK so we're getting HDR, now when are we going to get Super-resolution[1]!? :p

----
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-resolution
 
ronan michaux said:
A great analyse about HDR problems :
http://www.cs.bris.ac.uk/~reinhard/tm_comp/flickr_hdr/Comparison.html
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Ronan, this is NOT directed at you (thanks for sharing the write-up).

It really annoys me when people can't see two sides of the same coin with certain technologies. I happen to enjoy looking at non-realistic HDR images just as much as realistic ones because they give me a view on something that is almost otherworldly. Not everyone is trying to recreate the world verbatim around them and like the extra latitude technology affords them to push technologies in other directions and create new exciting results.

Does the world look green and blue like the coloring in The Matrix? No, but I happen to enjoy it from an artistic perspective. The color does a great job of enhancing the mood of the film for me. Some people like it, some people hate it, but in the end, to me, it is neither right or wrong, it's art.

With HDR photography and eventually video, I would rather hope that the reduction of the extended dynamic range would be within the operators ability because sometimes you are trying to get a realistic scene, sometimes, you are not. At least, this has been my experience when doing HDR photography. Not all art is intended to be realistic.

I absolutely disagree that tone mapping is not a creative process. Because this individual wants to create realistic only HDR images, doesn't negate the fact that tone mapping has creative abilities, whether abused or not. One person might decide the shadows are much more important. Another something else, depending on the content of the scene. In particular, since I enjoy Sci-Fi, you can imagine the fun I would like to try out in creating other worldly looks for various scenarios.

But, with all that Red has done before, it would seem to me that their approach would be, save all the raw data, then manipulate it later, so I imagine what I would desire and what someone will desire will all be possible :) This is why this kind of stuff excites me.

And the thing you can probably guarantee, is when those HDR capabilities go live, Vimeo is going to be flooded with people pushing those HDR capabilities in all sorts of creative directions :)
 
Peter Hebert said:
That's coming with the TRANSFORMER version of EPIC... it will change from a camera to a DOP, and back...
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Ha! - Funny thing - Some of the producers I have worked with already think the R1 can transform anyone into a DOP!

/ rimshot ! /
 
Eythan Holladay said:
Ha! - Funny thing - Some of the producers I have worked with already think the R1 can transform anyone into a DOP!
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I suppose it's possible. I've seen the RED One transform a few DOP's into complete noobs.
 
I gotta admit .. when I first got mine, I did fumble a bit on set trying to navigate playback .. I used the old "Lemme Swap batteries" trick to get them off my back :-D
 
Jannard said:
There will be an HDR Mode on EPIC and Scarlet. It may not come the 1st month of release but we do have a pretty clever approach (at least we think so). Examples before release of the cameras.

Jim
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I knew that one day I will turn my computer on and I will see this post:
HDR on RED coming soon

God is good for me this year.
I was patiently waiting for it something like from spring 2007.

Thank you …God^H^H^H Jim, Graeme.

Andrew
 
An other friendly but frustrated reminder to all of those who continue to trash the examples I posted...

They were to illustrate what HDR could make possible, to people asking what HDR was!

You can abuse anything, and you can also use anything to make art.

Again, an HDR frame could be made to look "normal", or you could spend a bit on set design and push it all the way to surrealism.

The responsibility is on YOUR shoulders, not mine, not on the shoulders of the people that made those shots... not Graeme's, not Red's. YOU!

:facepalm:
 
I'd be happy if it just allowed for wide bracketing by varying exposure times, with a great deal of control over the number of shots in a set, the space (f stops) between sets, and then for intervalometer how frequently sets are shot.

Flag the metadata to be recognized as "this is an HDR series", then allow the native Red tools to read out those image sequences or streams as a series of exposures sequentially named/numbered so we can feed them into whatever tools we like.

As for those processing the same shot different ways to get HDR-like results, I had a conversation years ago with Graeme asking about this, and he'd said if you only took one original image, no need to process out to various other shots - it is all about the curves. I agree.

-mike
 
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