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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HDR Mode...

There's also the approach which some other camera manufacturers already offer in which the photosite exposes up to 1.0 and then stops. The timing of which I believe then is used. So it goes from being a photosensor to a phototimer. Far less precise and still results in a form of ghosting but would offer some extended dynamic range.

I've never actually seen footage though shot with this mode. Nor am I certain I understood exactly how they were claiming to accomplish it.

EDIT: Also for the record Hoochie Mama filtering is the greatest forum feature ever developed.
 
I was literally going to ask about the possibility of HDR at RED Day, but I couldn't articulate my question into words and there was the sinking feeling that I was asking the impossible. The fact that this was announced so soon after Feb 13th is like a dream.


As for my theory (I didn't read every post in here so spare me the noose if I'm repeating someone) but I can't imagine resorting to taking multiple exposures within the 1/24th of a second... having done a lot of HDR Photography myself I know any sort of motion between frames can introduce some horrific artifacts when the multiple exposures are merged together. I can imagine though two exposures being taken simultaneously at different ISOs, or rather some other technology that deadens or increases the sensitivity of the sensor on a per-pixel basis.

Really though, HDR has always been technically feasible with a single sensor stamping a single frame, the problem has been the fact that an A>D convertor has to take the analog information off the sensor and clamp it in-between 0 and 1023 (in the case of 10 bit). But if the sensor has the ability to store both very low eV values and very high ones and the method of A>D conversion is unorthodox, technically the analog eV values could be stored as a floating point values digitally, to be compressed between 0-1023 (which makes the lowest float value zero and the highest float value 1023) rather than clamped (which takes a low value and makes everything below it zero, and takes a high value and makes everything above it 1023).

But that might just be a fantasy of mine, because once you have floating points coming out of the A>D conversion, all you need is a superfast storage solution and you'd be dealing with image material that would give any colorist a wet dream.
 
This is very exciting... maybe one of the best features I've heard so far. Probably only needs 2 different brackets (a dark and bright exposure) since 12 bit RAW already has a lot more information than a standard 8 bit JPEG... at least that's my guess. What I really like is the use in terms of CGI (For capturing lighting information of the set, can use HDR video from scarlet instead of shooting stills of a mirror-ball or using fish-eye lens).

The other thing we would need is some sort of way to apply the "Photomatix" effect to motion video. E.g. all those pictures that were posted had this effect, it uses the extra data in an HDR image to bring out detail in highlights and shadows in a surreal way. Although, people might get annoyed with over stylization lol.

-cc
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
O RLY..? :)
If you are looking for examples of HDR looks just spend a few seconds drooling at this: http://images.google.com/images?q=h...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

hdr.jpg


hdr-truck.jpg


hdr-76.jpg


hdr-holland.jpg


room.jpg
Click to expand...

HOLY ****. that is so frickin awesome i cant describe it. So i understand this is going to be a feature on the scarlet fixed? Red team u are amazing!
 
RAWMAN strikes again!

How many gamma curves can Graemme apply to one photo??? :-))
 
Jeremy_Sawatzky said:
HOLY ****. that is so frickin awesome i cant describe it. So i understand this is going to be a feature on the scarlet fixed? Red team u are amazing!
Click to expand...


Different strokes for different folks - I dont think I could stomach seeing those in the theater. Im fairly certain that within a couple of years these photos will go the way of those "3d" pattern "art" pieces that clogged all of America's malls.

BUT - I am incredibly excited for the subtle, tasteful use of more dynamic range. Well done Red.
 
HDR mode definitely a way to get more nature looking image!
Let me guess,
1. Utilizing different ISO, squeeze out all dynamic range and information from the sensor in single shot.
2. Gathering dynamic range and information from +- shutter speed in different shuts by doubling or tripling the frame rate. Then merge these frames to one to avoid problem cause by motion.
3. combine 1 and 2 to get best result.
 
Anything can be over used. Anything can be used to make art.

RED isn't proposing what our projects should look like, they are offering us more DR.

What you do with it is YOUR responsibility.
 
Quite frankly, I would be much happier over a Scarlet that I can actually buy than a fictious ultra feature (it remains fictious as long as the camera is not available). These announcements just add to my frustration. I will have to buy a second compromise while waiting. I will despise it from day one since I will know how bad it is compared to a future revolutionary Scarlet. Yet I will have no choice (I do not have the means for a Red One, lest a Red One with a Mysterium X upgrade).

Any news on the ASICs?
 
Pierre T. said:
Quite frankly, I would be much happier over a Scarlet that I can actually buy than a fictious ultra feature (it remains fictious as long as the camera is not available). These announcements just add to my frustration. I will have to buy a second compromise while waiting. I will despise it from day one since I will know how bad it is compared to a future revolutionary Scarlet. Yet I will have no choice (I do not have the means for a Red One, lest a Red One with a Mysterium X upgrade).

Any news on the ASICs?
Click to expand...

hey i waited 1 1/2 years for my red, and when it arrived i was the happiest dude around. then came build 20 and the new science for free.

now i can shoot with a R1 while waiting for Epic. You will not be dissapointed.
 
Don't you guys get it?!

Red isn't playing an easy game... This is not a lemonade stand...

The only way we are going to get this sort of stuff to happen is if they get their second generation perfect.

They only way Red gets to do such crazy stuff that blows our mind is with success!

Is it hard to wait for everything? YES. But Jim's marketing is part of the company, and IMO part of their success.

Look at Jim's resume. Wouldn't you trust that he knows what it takes?

They are doing what necessary to get flawless quality, at DSLR resolutions, DR out of $200k cameras, frames per second out of film cameras, the possibility of insane features such as HDR motion, and all at ridiculous prices...

Forget about the schedule.

Let them work.

Be happy when you own 20 times the camera you would have if Jim didn't go into cinema.

Need a hold-me-over? Get a 7D, modify it for PL, and get a set of RPPs. You'll be ready for the real deal when it comes.
 
Not totally on topic but I find this graph quite funny with the current trends of horrible tonemapping that people are calling HDR.

b2feF.png
 
Chris Clogg said:
This is very exciting... maybe one of the best features I've heard so far. Probably only needs 2 different brackets (a dark and bright exposure) since 12 bit RAW already has a lot more information than a standard 8 bit JPEG... at least that's my guess. What I really like is the use in terms of CGI (For capturing lighting information of the set, can use HDR video from scarlet instead of shooting stills of a mirror-ball or using fish-eye lens).


-cc
Click to expand...

You likely still need the mirror ball or fisheye as you need the location of the lights - the HDR just captures the intensity/color info. But Shooting the mirror ball with the same camera as the film is shot without much hassle (like multiple exposures or switching to still mode or whatnot) would be already pretty slick. awesome even.

Still waiting for a 16bit depth channel add on for easy keying without green/blue ;) with all that magic coming out of red it wouldn´t surprise me the slightest at this point.
 
Truls Skare said:
Not totally on topic but I find this graph quite funny with the current trends of horrible tonemapping that people are calling HDR.
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHAHA!
 
I really hope it is made from something other than combining multiple frame rates - as that would compromise sharpness.

I would love to see a post mode where all the variables of raw are pushed across their ranges so detail can be collected and added back to the image when on intended settings.
 
HDR is quite useful for pulling in all that range. The tonemapping doesn't have to look "Grunge" though. These are all high contrast scenes I "attempted" to make look less so. All took 7 to 9 shots, merged to HDR then tonemapped. My goal to get all that dynamic range into an 8bit image.

I'm extremely excited about Scarlet now :)

dci.jpg
 
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